Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[BroMikey]

Battery 101

Okay let us continue in the vane of rational thought.

That vane being that it works rather than it doesn't work.

Working from this premise we need to study our battery in Clarence
setup. The battery is a 60amp Hour marine type battery if I am not
mistaken.

Many of you have never had a battery connected to an inverter trying
to run lights or fans off of it, so it is important that you do that, if you
are ever going to become proficient at closing the loop on many free energy systems.

I hear those on this thread making statements that do not add up to the
practical aspects. For instance listen to John Bedini, one of my teachers
talk about battery size and rates of discharge and recharging values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgjn-Eubyoo

John B. is one of many intellectual minds who is very advanced concerning
battery technology. The first thing needed to advance battery tech is to understand normal battery systems available for the past 100 years.

Clarence battery is no different, nothing magic in his battery.

Just a normal C20 rate 60ah battery. I have the same ones like Clarence that are 100ah batteries. These batteries are nothing special in fact my 100ah battery only gives me 35ah before it reaches 10.5vdc every single time.

And what might be of importance to those of you who really want to understand is that the only way I can get those 35 ah out of this one hundred amp hour battery is to divide those 35ah by C20 or a 20 hour discharge period.

If you can not understand this portion of the study and you are all out of breath then you need to go to an easier replication. Oh Bromikey is insulting us again. Nope just making sense out of who is running the calculations.

If you can not give me a definitive answer about normal battery inverter
operation then you do not belong here judging this project.

Okay 35ah divided by 20 = 1.75 amps. That is correct 1.75amps and no more if I want to get the full ah rating of 35ah. Clarence battery will be about 25ah divided by 20hrs = 1.25 amps. 1.25amps discharging and no more to get the full 25ah out of that battery.

I have 100 batteries I should know. Some of my batteries are converted to ALUM also and this is a huge improvement often doubling or nearly doubling capacity though it takes double the joule count to charge it back up again.


Now here is what happens when you exceed the 1.25amp draw. As the battery is called upon to provide more amps than the factory rating allows
internal heating occurs in the form of chemical friction. This will lower Amp Hour capacity up to as much as 40 percent less.

If we pull 6 amps from Clarence 1.25amp battery rating the battery also will
degrade faster, meaning he will have to keep replacing his battery all of the time due to the abusive demands.

Almost everyone here making comments about how all of the energy comes from Clarence battery is showing us as a group that they have no practical common sense concerning battery, inverter operation.

My recommendation is to get a camping inverter pure sine wave and buy different types of batteries to run so you can make an educated guess in the future. Until people can make these steps no others are possible.

That is why I have been listening to John Bedini, because John is very much aware of what is needed to close the loop on many energy extraction devices.

Here is a video also of the approx same size battery as Clarence has running a 500 watt light. I have done this many times using those junk batteries or NON TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries. By the time the video is ended he is ready to recharge his battery becauce he is demanding 40amps off his tiny battery, it looks like a 100ah truck battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5suWI_KqY

Until people make common load tests they have no idea what they are talking about.

Here is a Microwave Oven running off of Clarence size system calling on the battery at 100amps. He fried the battery in 5 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZhrqvYBqCE

[Minsky]

BroMikey. It's a huge mistake to try and argue with the gasbags offering to show the battery as the energy source in Clarence's replication. They wouldn't know energy dynamics if it bit them in the nose.

[BroMikey]

BroMikey. It's a huge mistake to try and argue with the gasbags offering to show the battery as the energy source in Clarence's replication. They wouldn't know energy dynamics if it bit them in the nose.

Thats a fact.

Here is a tutorial for our underclassmen, maybe we can bring them up to speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wimTJw_Gpgk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI9kAWQ_s4w

[BroMikey]

Here is a more proportionate inverter battery setup.

This uses a single marine battery around the size Clarence uses. Compared
to the 3000 watt sinewave inverter it appears to be quite small.

This max rated 800watt inverter is most efficient at 150 watts and begins to
cost more energy the closer it gets to about 500 watts continuous.

800 watt is peak for 5 minute only.

This is about right for the battery because 5 amps at 12 volts = 60watts and is best suited for this battery. At 5 amps the amp hour rating does still suffer a
reduction from max amp hour ratings from the C20 rate.

So the 5amps flowing from the battery might go 4 hours max before the inverter alarm goes off. I doubt it. If it was brand new maybe and every month after that using standard chargers would be less.

So the next time someone tells me Clarence little battery is powering his
house tells me they have never done any of the work.

This is typical of people who think they know everything without any
experience.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkU6PytRLhE

[Fjohnnyb]

Okay let us continue in the vane of rational thought.

That vane being that it works rather than it doesn't work.

Working from this premise we need to study our battery in Clarence
setup. The battery is a 60amp Hour marine type battery if I am not
mistaken.

Many of you have never had a battery connected to an inverter trying
to run lights or fans off of it, so it is important that you do that, if you
are ever going to become proficient at closing the loop on many free energy systems.

I hear those on this thread making statements that do not add up to the
practical aspects. For instance listen to John Bedini, one of my teachers
talk about battery size and rates of discharge and recharging values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgjn-Eubyoo

John B. is one of many intellectual minds who is very advanced concerning
battery technology. The first thing needed to advance battery tech is to understand normal battery systems available for the past 100 years.

Clarence battery is no different, nothing magic in his battery.

Just a normal C20 rate 60ah battery. I have the same ones like Clarence that are 100ah batteries. These batteries are nothing special in fact my 100ah battery only gives me 35ah before it reaches 10.5vdc every single time.

And what might be of importance to those of you who really want to understand is that the only way I can get those 35 ah out of this one hundred amp hour battery is to divide those 35ah by C20 or a 20 hour discharge period.

If you can not understand this portion of the study and you are all out of breath then you need to go to an easier replication. Oh Bromikey is insulting us again. Nope just making sense out of who is running the calculations.

If you can not give me a definitive answer about normal battery inverter
operation then you do not belong here judging this project.

Okay 35ah divided by 20 = 1.75 amps. That is correct 1.75amps and no more if I want to get the full ah rating of 35ah. Clarence battery will be about 25ah divided by 20hrs = 1.25 amps. 1.25amps discharging and no more to get the full 25ah out of that battery.

I have 100 batteries I should know. Some of my batteries are converted to ALUM also and this is a huge improvement often doubling or nearly doubling capacity though it takes double the joule count to charge it back up again.


Now here is what happens when you exceed the 1.25amp draw. As the battery is called upon to provide more amps than the factory rating allows
internal heating occurs in the form of chemical friction. This will lower Amp Hour capacity up to as much as 40 percent less.

If we pull 6 amps from Clarence 1.25amp battery rating the battery also will
degrade faster, meaning he will have to keep replacing his battery all of the time due to the abusive demands.

Almost everyone here making comments about how all of the energy comes from Clarence battery is showing us as a group that they have no practical common sense concerning battery, inverter operation.

My recommendation is to get a camping inverter pure sine wave and buy different types of batteries to run so you can make an educated guess in the future. Until people can make these steps no others are possible.

That is why I have been listening to John Bedini, because John is very much aware of what is needed to close the loop on many energy extraction devices.

Here is a video also of the approx same size battery as Clarence has running a 500 watt light. I have done this many times using those junk batteries or NON TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries. By the time the video is ended he is ready to recharge his battery becauce he is demanding 40amps off his tiny battery, it looks like a 100ah truck battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5suWI_KqY

Until people make common load tests they have no idea what they are talking about.

Here is a Microwave Oven running off of Clarence size system calling on the battery at 100amps. He fried the battery in 5 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZhrqvYBqCE

That is very very interesting BroMikey. I have been playing with my new inverter and batteries and noticed that it wasn't doing nearly what I expected. I enjoyed you information on batteries.

The key to communicating with other people in these discussions is not to call them non believers or university stiff upper lips but to provide them with the information that makes your opinion differ from theirs. That way we all still like each other and end up learning from each other

[BroMikey]

That is very very interesting BroMikey. I have been playing with my new inverter and batteries and noticed that it wasn't doing nearly what I expected. I enjoyed you information on batteries.

The key to communicating with other people in these discussions is not to call them non believers or university stiff upper lips but to provide them with the information that makes your opinion differ from theirs. That way we all still like each other and end up learning from each other

remember I do what I think is correct. And you are absolutely right I do tend to pick a bone now and then but I don't do it out of hate for you.

When I find a stuffed shirt I stuff him and stick a calculator in his hand.

If you can come back and say what you said, then my tutorial was worth it all. If people can't run these basic inverter battery tests then they may have alot of book smarts, but that doesn't mean a thing.

I am glad you are with me. Let's keep it tight and do the math.

I get real uptight when folks ignorantly hurl slanderous remarks of deception toward Clarence, when they can't even run the joule count. I know that was not you. But then I wasn't sure so I used you to sound off a bit. Thanks for letting me use you to get my point over.

You are pretty tough. I hope we can be friends for sure.

[Fjohnnyb]

remember I do what I think is correct. And you are absolutely right I do tend to pick a bone now and then but I don't do it out of hate for you.

When I find a stuffed shirt I stuff him and stick a calculator in his hand.

If you can come back and say what you said, then my tutorial was worth it all. If people can't run these basic inverter battery tests then they may have alot of book smarts, but that doesn't mean a thing.

I am glad you are with me. Let's keep it tight and do the math.

I get real uptight when folks ignorantly hurl slanderous remarks of deception toward Clarence, when they can't even run the joule count. I know that was not you. But then I wasn't sure so I used you to sound off a bit. Thanks for letting me use you to get my point over.

You are pretty tough. I hope we can be friends for sure.

We are all grownups here (I hope!). I am here in the pursuit of knowledge, not to have my ego stroked. My posts regarding the device is never stated as a challenge nor do I ever claim that I know better. It is always just my opinion from what I observed and is always open for discussion. I ask for and welcome different opinions. Not insults though.

If we can keep it clean and productive then I'm sure we can indeed be friends

I'm doing some serious battery discharge testing in order to better understand what to expect from a battery+inverter setup and to see how your calculations relate to my findings.

[RAMSET]

Hard at it....

Grumage in the UK has been experimenting with Energy from the ground
and ground rods ,in addition to being inspired by Clarence ,he has also
noted dragon's contributions.

here are some of his initial tests and observations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__NQOtrzf0

Just for entertainment !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcPu4Ie47vA

and lastly..
this request from Grumage


Dear All.

Can anyone pick up the gauntlet from me ?

I have just finished an experiment injecting the rod 8 M away with a Sinus wave and looking at the signal at the closest rod. I saw no unusual signal until the 1 mhz frequency where the received signal appeared to be larger than the applied one.

Unfortunately my FG maxes at 1.6 mhz. I wonder if anyone can push this boundary to see if the effect is both valid and maybe even increases the received signal ?

Cheers Grum.

...................................
to summarize ..he was seeing more back than he was putting in ..

respectfully
Chet
ps
Special thanks to dragon
PPS
I had heard at OU.COM that Clarence had an 800 AH battery ??

will have to check that fact...

[dragon]

BroMikey, Your battery information is great for those starting out, learning to calculate power needs is extremely important when you want to convert to off grid living - knowing your power needs for various loads can be an eye opener when your trying to reduce your bill.

I've been running my home on a battery storage system for over 15 years now. I have several inverters ( approximately 6000 watts of total capacity) carrying the loads with a small 1400 Ah battery bank. I'm not completely off grid as I can't run any of my 220 volt loads as yet. With the introduction of the newer pure sinewave stuff I can now convert my several smaller inverters to a split phase 220 unit that will replace the grid line to my main box, grid becomes a back up at that point. This system runs my home 24/7.

The input to this system is 1500 watts of solar, 1000 watt wind as well as a few different alternatives which I've built. My consumption is generally around 7-10kwh per day average. It can be quite challenging at times to become your own power station but the rewards are many.

I believe my goals are very similar to those that visit these forums so we are all looking for one simple thing - The plain simple truth, nothing more.

If Clarence is on the level and he has achieved the holy grail then I applaud him, bow to him and build it... but... if he's being deceptive in any way it benefits no one. The same investment could provide me with another 1500 watts of guaranteed power - all I have to do is install it.

I do all my own work, most of the schematics I've posted have never been seen before, I post nothing that I haven't tested and proven myself unless I state that it is a conceptual design outright. You have to admit that these forums are packed full of deception, not always in a bad way but what ever the motivation people spend hard earned money in an attempt to achieve some magical end only to find out it was just a pile of hooey from someone that wanted some attention, money or what ever.

I tend to be blunt and factual as I see it... if I'm wrong I'll be the first to humble myself and apologize. I am extremely open minded and will build anything given I have a reasonable belief that it is "truth".

I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.

So the moral is, see things for what they are - then look at things not necessarily for what they were intended but for what they could be.

Like or disllike me for what ever reason makes no difference - I will continue searching for truth while picking up the bread crumbs along the way. There are a lot of good things gained from any journey...

[Grumage]

A thankyou.

Dear Chet.

Many thanks for pushing the envelope, alas some of my test gear would be considered antique by some !!

As a point of note the above experiment was carried out using my UPS so that there could be no interference from my Supply industry provided ground connection.

Dear Dragon.

As Chet has pointed out your insights are of great interest, many, many thanks for sharing them with us.

Cheers Grum.

[a.king21]

BroMikey, Your battery information is great for those starting out, learning to calculate power needs is extremely important when you want to convert to off grid living - knowing your power needs for various loads can be an eye opener when your trying to reduce your bill.

I've been running my home on a battery storage system for over 15 years now. I have several inverters ( approximately 6000 watts of total capacity) carrying the loads with a small 1400 Ah battery bank. I'm not completely off grid as I can't run any of my 220 volt loads as yet. With the introduction of the newer pure sinewave stuff I can now convert my several smaller inverters to a split phase 220 unit that will replace the grid line to my main box, grid becomes a back up at that point. This system runs my home 24/7.

The input to this system is 1500 watts of solar, 1000 watt wind as well as a few different alternatives which I've built. My consumption is generally around 7-10kwh per day average. It can be quite challenging at times to become your own power station but the rewards are many.

I believe my goals are very similar to those that visit these forums so we are all looking for one simple thing - The plain simple truth, nothing more.

If Clarence is on the level and he has achieved the holy grail then I applaud him, bow to him and build it... but... if he's being deceptive in any way it benefits no one. The same investment could provide me with another 1500 watts of guaranteed power - all I have to do is install it.

I do all my own work, most of the schematics I've posted have never been seen before, I post nothing that I haven't tested and proven myself unless I state that it is a conceptual design outright. You have to admit that these forums are packed full of deception, not always in a bad way but what ever the motivation people spend hard earned money in an attempt to achieve some magical end only to find out it was just a pile of hooey from someone that wanted some attention, money or what ever.

I tend to be blunt and factual as I see it... if I'm wrong I'll be the first to humble myself and apologize. I am extremely open minded and will build anything given I have a reasonable belief that it is "truth".

I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.

So the moral is, see things for what they are - then look at things not necessarily for what they were intended but for what they could be.

Like or disllike me for what ever reason makes no difference - I will continue searching for truth while picking up the bread crumbs along the way. There are a lot of good things gained from any journey...

Dragon: Do you have a full circuit digram for this part:
I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.
Thanks for sharing.

[dragon]

Dragon: Do you have a full circuit digram for this part:

Thanks for sharing.

I haven't built the NiChrome drum to fully test the idea of heating water, only small tests with a 200 watt bulb for heat output - tested but not confirmed. The other is the diagram for the magnetic field. This actually opened a door for some interesting ideas as solutions to some previous projects that have stumped me for some time now...

[BroMikey]

BroMikey, Your battery information is great for those starting out............................................... .................................................. .........

Like or disllike me for what ever reason makes no difference - I will continue searching for truth while picking up the bread crumbs along the way. There are a lot of good things gained from any journey...

Like or dislike? Are you kidding, it's guys like you a real love to listen to because you do the work. I never once thought you were anything less than a real researcher.

Tell me more dude you are so right on I can hardly wait to see what you found out. I too have 2 large 3000/6000watt inverters powering my house from $10,000 worth of batteries.

You have my undivided attention.

[level]

PPS
I had heard at OU.COM that Clarence had an 800 AH battery ??
will have to check that fact...

Hello Ramset. I read through Clarence's posts on ou.com and Clarence stated he was using a 70Ah battery:
"I only use ONE battery at present and it is an AC DELCO brand #48PG -770 cold crank amps - 70 AmpHour."
I don't know if Clarence is still using the same battery or not now.

Regarding what loads Clarence has run with his setup with his battery and inverter, I just wanted to point out that when Clarence mentioned connecting a microwave oven to his device here, Clarence didn't mention whether he was powering his device from the mains or from his battery. On ou.com Clarence previously stated that he was powering his device from the mains when he connected a microwave oven to his device. Clarence mentioned connecting a few other different things to his device here, but Clarence did not specify how long anything was connected and how much his battery voltage dropped, if he was powering from his battery. As one of my teachers once said to the class, don't assume, it makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
Clarence previously stated on ou.com:
"I powered my unit (without charger, Battery, inverter attached at all) and plugged my microwave unit into my build
output to load .........KWM meter read 15.5 amps at 1604 watts and the mains KWM SHOWED 2.2 amps at 268 watts. about an 80/20 relationship."
Keep in mind that when powering this setup from the mains, the resulting ground loop could very well make power measurements from such a wattmeter connection invalid.

Imagine how different things might be here if Clarence didn't perceive sincere questions about how his device is performing as something negative or something against him. We could freely ask him questions like:
While running your device from your battery and inverter and self looping, what happens when you connect a 100W bulb (or whatever) to your device and leave it running for 4 hours? What was the measured start and end battery voltage?
and
What happens when you have no load connected to your device and you leave it self looping using the battery and inverter for 24 hours? What was the measured start and end battery voltage?
etc.
We wouldn't be sitting in almost the complete dark guessing how Clarence's setup might actually be performing, and we could potentially be much further ahead than we are now. We would know exactly how Clarence's setup is performing under different conditions and people could then decide whether to replicate or not based on actual knowledge of what Clarence's setup can actually do, rather than just guessing. Ah well. To each their own.

[level]

... I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - ...

Hello dragon. Sounds good. Did you have the secondary as just one loop through the toroid? What gauge wire for the secondary wire? How did you measure the input power to the toroid? Were you powering from an inverter at 120V? Sorry for all the questions. LOL!