Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[Minsky]

Okay continuing in the vane of rational thought, working from the premise that energy indeed can be extracted in the form of electrons from the earth.

Energy from the ground.

In this discussion I would like to focus on the battery.

Many chargers give a 20-30 max amp at the beginning of a batteries normal charge cycle and will quickly taper off in a matter of minutes. It is not uncommon to see a 20 amp delivery for 30 minutes then each minute after
see a drop til 5-7 amps is reached during the course of an hour. This statement is based of a new batteries response.

The reason I am stirring up myself on this subject is the fact that Clarence has a charger running at near max, all of the time the system is on. This is important to look at.

When you look at battery type enough, you will see that this battery that Clarence has chosen can except a charge rapidly at the same time offering a charge up.

Other batteries may not operate this way. This battery is acting more like a capacitor in that sense, where it quickly absorbs and continues to supply energy freely.

14volts at 25amps = 350 watts of charging power and probably is running the two Toroid's with a small amount left over to feed raw 120vac into the 4 sending ground rods.

The toroid's are 300va each and 21awg wire is good for about 1.25-1.5amps at 120vac multiply that by 2 toroids. So 1.3amp X 120v = 156 watts X 2 toroids = 312watts







Truecharge Battery Charger | Truecharge2 20A, 40A, 60A | Xantrex



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdIPn4EMyJ0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdIPn4EMyJ0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdIPn4EMyJ0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEO4A1Igyo8

@BroMikey,
This is the kind of solid baseline analysis which makes it worthwhile to follow this discussion.

[BroMikey]

The C20 rate only applies if you are loading the battery on it's own.
If the battery is being charged then this no longer applies. That's why you can run hundreds of watts off your car battery whilst driving and your alternator is charging the battery at the same time

Yes this is so true and just what the captor to smart charger is doing, however when any math equation work in accomplished the joule count must be done for each function of the system.

What we see is that this type of battery functions more like a capacitor passing and absorbing energy quicker than other types of deep cycle batteries.

Of course idling current is far lower at the toroids, than when they are loaded so all conditions and processes of system operation must be figured in at some point.

Since the battery need not be replaced every 2 weeks we know that the condition of the battery with it's C20 rate is in line with the manufacturer.

Whatever the battery delivers is replaced and so one down the line.

That Captor system has got me dreaming again.

[clarence]

Bromikey,
The tptb attacks when you are on to something. It's the same pattern on each thread that gets close to a device or idea that could help us. Those that really are wanting to replicate this will ask questions and then start replicating. But those that tear down never will help or replicate. They boast of their intelligence but show no kindness. Show your kindness and love for this endeavor, then you are intelligent.

Clarence,
I have my shop running on solar. So I setup a temporary test through the inverter with a small input and output ground grid. Have a smart charger connected to the captor wound around two car coils with the four cfl(4 foot) lights on over my work bench. Very surprised to see it produce enough to power the smart charger and keep the lights on. Will run it for some time and just learn. Why? Because that's the love for this endeavor!!!

Thanks and stay the course,
wantomake

hello wantomake,

a pleasure again to speak to you sir.
just for information sake, I had spent the last week or so going back through some of my private B&L data which is pretty vast long story short!

I had noticed in B&L s testing and diagrams of the particular units in the test modes that there Never was described nor indicated a GROUND INPUT!
their two test modes were 50% MAINS and 50% BATT/INVERTER!

I thought it over for awhile and it came to me that with repect to the vmains system there WAS a GROUND INPUT! how ever it was not AT THE SITE WHERE THE GROUND RETURN system was located! it was AT THE CLOSEST SUB STATION.
evidently the distance away prevented it from interfering with the Captors ability to harvest ALL the modes of earth GROUND energy at the site and it did just that. their results proved it. so just recently I decided to test my unit again on mains. THIS TIME I disconnected my neutral to ground input wire and just set it aside. the reason being my MAINS ground rod was 40 + ft away and the mains substation Grounding about 8 miles away. so I perceived the ground input wolud only send mains power direct to the return grid and prevent the earth harvesting the Captor wanted to do.

so when i powered the unit up with just mains (no charger/batt/inverter)
and ran some of my household devices this time their performance was WAY better. I won't get into the measuremantalist of it or the test-icles of it as that would only start more pigeon drops.

the gist of it all I believe is to see what effect the inverter input to ground spacing or location has with regards to the Captor to ground return location
by moving it around how ever you can.

all assuming I had read your post correctly sir.
Just thoughts and appreciate your info also.

thanks,

Clarenbce

[BroMikey]

Yes you are quite right Sir about the trolls. Pawns who can't change their flat tire of disbelief. It has been that way from the start so,
"check mate".

Then we have wantomake awesome dude
Quite the commendable entry using your existing
setup. If we keep stirring this pot the entire world
of inventor/wild cards might just get what they came for.

I know people are asking you to produce all of the results over night
plus diagrams and so, but don't let them rush you.

It's guys like you who keep the rest of us on the edge of our seats.

Bromikey,
The tptb attacks when you are on to something. It's the same pattern on each thread that gets close to a device or idea that could help us. Those that really are wanting to replicate this will ask questions and then start replicating. But those that tear down never will help or replicate. They boast of their intelligence but show no kindness. Show your kindness and love for this endeavor, then you are intelligent.

Clarence,
I have my shop running on solar. So I setup a temporary test through the inverter with a small input and output ground grid. Have a smart charger connected to the captor wound around two car coils with the four cfl(4 foot) lights on over my work bench. Very surprised to see it produce enough to power the smart charger and keep the lights on. Will run it for some time and just learn. Why? Because that's the love for this endeavor!!!

Thanks and stay the course,
wantomake

[shylo]

Hi WTM, Could you please give some details on your small grid set-up , and how you used the car coils? It would be much appreciated.
I can't afford to replicate Clarences', but would like to exp. with smaller set-up.
Thanks artv

[wantomake]

Thanks Clarence and Bromikey,
That's good information. I did try the Lorrie Matchett idea with only the mains hot side and a good earth ground, was surprised to light 70 watt bulb to half power. This seems there is good chance of getting good earth return here. Closest substation is several miles and here is all country. I get your point and all should know this.

Shylo,
Will test some more today. There is nothing test worthy to post yet. But it proves TO ME that there's more to this. I can't afford the same setup as B and L also. Hitby was testing with the Kurt Oscillator on the Gerard Morin thread and got some results. I just wound (tightly) six feet of #4 awg around two car coils (no internal resistor) and connected the high side(12k) in parallel like Clarence posted in his hand drawn schematic. Added so far only 2 x 8' rods about 20 ft from a 10' ground copper pipe. Each week will add to the grid as money allows.

wantomake
PS: There's no mains power to my shop.

More information
Ultra-simple, Low-cost Free-energy Generator from Lorrie Matchett

[kenssurplus]

Every other pole grounded

Clarence, and Wanttomake,

I do not know if this is common outside of my area, in other countries (Brasil, G.B., S.A. etc.) but the neutral wire from the power company in the USA where I live, grounds each service, plus there is a ground wire running down each power pole into the ground. Somewhere I came across info stating they ground every other pole (not sure if indeed this is true). I can see a ground on every pole that has a pole pig on it. So, the nearest ground would not be the closest substation, unless you are the only customer on your local distribution line. Also, it depends on if you are served with a line that has 3 phase available at the pole (so 3 to 4 wires at the pole) or if you only have single phase (two wires on the pole) how close your nearest ground is.

[dragon]

I did a multitude of testing this last weekend - some inconclusive, some success and some very practical applications that I'll be working on.

To start with, experimenting with nichrome and the possibilities of heating water with only current output. Very successful. Very low wattage to bring the wires to a temp that would burn paper - reading over 500*F on the wires with less than 20 watts. Very pleased with the outcome of this. Anyone need a 20 watt toaster?

So on to the other aspect - generating electricity from this configuration... some interesting developments... anyone follow Dr.Stifflers work? I searched for the strongest signal I could find on ground - remember B&L stated that you could remove all input and still have an output, to me this means they had a resonant circuit connection to the earth. The current loop of the transformer connected to the wire loop to ground forming an LC series resonant circuit. My coil measured in at 10uh and the final twisted connection was in the area of 16pf. I spent 3 hours yesterday adjusting and tweaking the coil loop altering capacitance to match the ground signal but I could get it resonant for very brief self runs. Enough output to run an LED on an AV... It would run for a bit flicker and go out. Needless to say I wasn't successful in maintaining a resonant structure, with the twisted wire relaxing - body capacitance and environmental changes it was just to many variables to overcome - My test rig wasn't optimal by any means and requires a far more stable layout.

Anyway, I moved on to the possibility of altering the configuration to provide an output without a direct return path back to the inverter and ran into other interesting things to pursue. Making the primary coil series resonant with the load might actually cause the current in the loop to follow another path. This is inconclusive at this point but certainly an interesting path to pursue.

For now I'm going to turn my attention to the practical successes and develop these into something I can use now then return to the unknowns...

Below are diagrams that explain the resonant ground as it would apply to the current loop. There are easier ways of doing this. I'm including the series load circuit that I tested only as a reference. This can cause unwanted chatter in the inverter and the primary tends to hammer the core of the toroid which could cause damage to the inverter. The voltage between the cap and primary, where the neutral to inverter is connected can rise to very high levels. Generally will trip the GFI if the inverter is equipped. Experiment at your own risk -

Off to build a Ni-chrome drum and several other experimental heaters....

Big thanks to Level for starting this thread and huge thanks to Clarence for inspiring thought !!!!

[level]

Clarence, and Wanttomake,
I do not know if this is common outside of my area, in other countries (Brasil, G.B., S.A. etc.) but the neutral wire from the power company in the USA where I live, grounds each service, plus there is a ground wire running down each power pole into the ground. Somewhere I came across info stating they ground every other pole (not sure if indeed this is true). I can see a ground on every pole that has a pole pig on it. So, the nearest ground would not be the closest substation, unless you are the only customer on your local distribution line. Also, it depends on if you are served with a line that has 3 phase available at the pole (so 3 to 4 wires at the pole) or if you only have single phase (two wires on the pole) how close your nearest ground is.

Hi Kensurplus. Yes, I have pointed out in this thread already that if you are powering from the mains and using the mains hot wire to power a device or load, with the other side of the load going to earth ground, that there will be a strong likelihood of a ground loop. Yes, it is probably common in many countries for the mains neutral to be earth grounded at the house service and also at power poles as well. Any tests with the Barbosa and Leal devices and the Lorrie Matchett device using the mains will not be valid tests without comparing results to using a battery and inverter, as due to the ground loop power will still be coming from the mains. IMO, these two type of device setups really have to be tested with a battery and inverter.

A simple test for experimenters if they are not convinced of this is to try it with the mains and then try the same thing with a battery and inverter and compare the results. If it doesn't work the same or doesn't work at all using a battery and inverter, then you know that a mains ground loop is what is providing the power difference. Really any OU device that depends on earth ground to work should not be powered from the mains to avoid mains ground loop issues. If some earth grounded OU device still works when using a battery or battery and inverter with no mains connection at all, then you may well be onto something.

[clarence]

Loop-de-loop

Hi Kensurplus. I have pointed out in this thread already that if you are powering from the mains and using the mains hot wire to power a load, with the other side of the load going to earth ground, that there will be a ground loop. Yes, it is probably common in many countries for the mains neutral to be earth grounded at the house service and also at power poles as well. Any tests with the Barbosa and Leal devices and the Lorrie Matchett device using the mains will not be valid tests without comparing results to using a battery and inverter, as due to the ground loop power will still be coming from the mains. IMO. these two type of device setups really have to be tested with a battery and inverter.

A simple test for experimenters if they are not convinced of this is to try it with the mains and then try the same thing with a battery and inverter and compare the results. If it doesn't work the same or doesn't work at all using a battery and inverter, then you know that a mains ground loop is what is providing the power difference. Really any OU device that depends on earth ground to work should not be powered from the mains to avoid mains ground loop issues. If some earth grounded device still works when using a battery and inverter with no mains connection at all, then you may well be onto something.

Hello,

Still trying to kick Barbosa and Leal for their success when they achieved it BOTH ways,, my my.

Clarence

[level]

Hello,

Still trying to kick Barbosa and Leal for their success when they achieved it BOTH ways,, my my.

Clarence

Hello Clarence. Nothing I said in my comment is a 'kick' to Barbosa and Leal. I just pointed out a fact about mains ground loop issues and gave some suggestions on how to test for them. How you can be perceiving these sort of comments as some sort of attack is beyond me. It is good practical info that anyone experimenting with these type of devices using earth ground should fully understand. Nothing more.

Clarence, I remember you from the Don Smith thread where you were always very polite and friendly. This is why I didn't hesitate to help start this thread for you. My sole interest in this topic is trying to understand if there really is something to the Barbosa and Leal devices or not. I have a very open mind, but I am interested in things that can actually work and be confirmed through experiments and tests.

I have been conducting my own experiments for years now along these lines. We have all encountered a lot of nonsense and false or mistaken claims out there however, so I shouldn't have to tell you that to employ some caution and critical thinking is an essential part of the toolkit for any serious experimenter in this area. That is not something negative at all Clarence. It is just the reality of the situation. I am rooting for you and your efforts even if I am not convinced yet that your setup is drawing in power from the ground. I appreciate you sharing what you have shared about your device construction details, but info about actual performance of your setup is still lacking. You are not obligated to share anything you don't want to share, but as long as details about how your setup performs are still not made clear, then others just can't tell where you are really at.
Good luck with your further experiments!

[a.king21]

Clarence: I found your last detailed post very hard to follow, and I am afraid I cannot envisage what you meant to convey.
My view on the experiment is this:
There is no harm in failing.
I admire every experimenter.
It is far better than doing nothing and quoting from books.
There is no harm in partial failure/success.

I understand you don't want to get bogged down in measurements, who does?

I am still not clear how effective your replication is. It is now several weeks since you built your device.
But take your time, keep experimenting.
And good luck.

[a.king21]

Dragon: I find your amperage experiments fascinating. I have ordered some nichrome wire. Meanwhile can you say if it is possible to boil a cup of water - enough for a cup of tea - using 20 watts and if so how long will it take?

[Minsky]

phase in a transformer

@All, Many a time the phase of the transformer primary is not known, like in a car coil. In situations like this it would be necessary to determine the phase by measuring the phase difference with a oscilloscope. If an oscilloscope is not around it can still be determined by following this procedure.

1. Connect the primary and the secondary as shown by the dotted line in the figure(a)

2. A low voltage A.C source like a 15 vac wall wart may be used to excite the transformer.

3. Measure V1, V2 and V3.

If V3 = V1 - V2 then the primary and secondary are in phase.

If V3 = V1 + V2 then the primary and secondary are out of phase.

[Minsky]

Captor is not a transformer

@All,
Having said that I realized people are going to assume that the Captor is a regular 'transformer'. Far from it all and such assumptions should be thrown out the window. As Clarence has pointed out repeatedly.

Thanks.