Single Wire Power - A Search for Ambient Power to do Wwork

[DavidE]

dR-Green

Where did you say that the power was coming from to light these loads?

[dR-Green]

It appears hard for you to consider that energy could be like air, its everywhere. I am quite sure before man, there was energy and not the other way around.

Not at all. It's hard for me to consider that air will jump into a balloon on it's own accord, when the pressure inside the balloon is greater than it is outside.

As far as single wire transmission is concerned I see no reason to believe or suspect that anything "unconventional" in terms of gaining energy from the environment is going on. It's just a transmission system. No power is transmitted that you did not input.

If you are using the earth as the transmission medium, which itself has a natural resonant frequency and various natural electrical activity, then it's conceivable that you might be able to work with it to your advantage, but that hypothesis requires tuning so that the whole thing becomes one continuous system.

The radiant energy patent is an entirely different principle and is not a tuned system. Stick a metal plate in the air and it will charge a condenser, but a transmission system is a transmission system, one wire, no wires, or however many wires as you like.

[dR-Green]

dR-Green

Where did you say that the power was coming from to light these loads?

Limited to the diagram, Device G.

Otherwise, the power station...

[DavidE]

dR-Green

In general I can see no matter what inventor or what invention, in your view the ambient does not energetically participate in any way. In fact your view is even more implicit... if power shows up in the ambient, it was placed there by artificial means.

So is it your wave theory that has power jump from plate to plate on a capacitor to power a load (hairpin circuit)?

[DavidE]

[DavidE]

Dollard on Electricity

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQuNvqbH6ac[/VIDEO]

[wayne.ct]

Regarding DavidE and dR-Green

One of you is being reasonable and carefully reading what the other is saying. The other of you is being argumentative and NOT carefully reading what the other is saying. Still, you are beginning to talk at cross purposes. It is obvious to me that during a thunderstorm the atmosphere at altitude is at a different potential than earth and a rather conventional device could be constructed to capture the "ambient" energy. THAT "ambient" energy could add up to a substantial amount with the correct device. Therefore, you are both right. At the same time however, you both appear to be very stubborn and hard headed. I hope you resolve your differences, but you are going to need a lot of "luck".

[dR-Green]

I'm talking about single wire transmission, and I believe I've already said the radiant energy patent is based on receiving energy from the environment. Also that you may use natural activities to your advantage.

There is nothing to suggest that energy comes from the environment to cause a load to work with one wire.

From Colorado Springs Notes

... In this experiment the entire energy supplied to the structure or capacity C had to pass through the lamp.

By providing capacity in any way, so as to enable the lamp to take more energy, the potential required may be reduced at will.

Capacitors are used in high pass filters and for DC blocking because DC can't pass through the open circuit. But AC quite readily passes through. Bigger capacitance allows lower frequencies through. Cutoff frequency increases as capacitance is decreased. You hear it in effect every time you listen to music, as it's all filtered and EQ'd. That's how the electronic audio equipment works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter

1/4 wave resonance (for example) is possible because a standing (quarter) wave distributes itself along the length of the conductor. There are different potentials at every given point along the conductor despite the fact in your mind you think it's a short circuit or it should all be at the same potential. It's not at the same potential 5cm down the line because the potential is distributed according to the standing wave. That's also why sparks appear at the top of a Tesla coil and not along the whole thing. There's a potential gradient from ground potential to the terminal potential.



The picture illustrates in a neon tube what occurs on the stout copper bars or supposed hairpin circuit. Light and dark, or energised regions, appear according to the driving wavelength/frequency. Connect your bulb to the high potential point and it will light. Connect your bulb to the low potential point, and it won't.

Tesla explains it all very well in his article on the experiment.

[DavidE]

wayne.ct

Argumentative? Spirited exchange based on two very different perspectives. For me the sun does not rise and set based on Tesla lore. His contributions to our current quality of life are beyond debate. But many others have followed in his footsteps bringing forward even broader energetic possibilities.

[dR-Green]

wayne.ct

Argumentative? Spirited exchange based on two very different perspectives. For me the sun does not rise and set based on Tesla lore. His contributions to our current quality of life are beyond debate. But many others have followed in his footsteps bringing forward even broader energetic possibilities.

Tesla lore indeed. The point in all of this is that the use of a capacitance terminal that enables a filament bulb or such loads to work from one wire in such ways has nothing to do with the terminal being an antenna or receiving anything from the environment or any other source. That idea simply isn't necessary and it doesn't explain anything because that's not what can be observed to be happening.

[Bob Smith]

Tesla lore indeed. The point in all of this is that the use of a capacitance terminal that enables a filament bulb or such loads to work from one wire in such ways has nothing to do with the terminal being an antenna or receiving anything from the environment or any other source. That idea simply isn't necessary and it doesn't explain anything because that's not what can be observed to be happening.

For me, this would be the crux of the "antenna" issue. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted the positions.

It seems to me that one perspective envisions an AC charge at resonance moving across the capacitor plates, and through the load and into/along the wire leading away from the load.

On the other hand, there is the perspective that an AC charge at resonance reaches the proximal plate of a capacitor and induces a difference in potential vis a vis the distal plate. The ambient medium, seeking to restore balance, would respond through the distal plate, with a responding charge of its own, matching the frequency of the incoming charge. In this sense, though it might appear that the charge might be moving through the capacitor, something different is actually happening. I believe that it is in this sense that DavidE is looking at the capacitor and wire leading away from it to and from the load as an "antenna." I believe Don Smith has an illustration in one of his videos which illustrates this effect. Perhaps someone can post it. If I'm able to find it, I will.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting these two positions.
Bob

[dR-Green]

For me, this would be the crux of the "antenna" issue. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted the positions.

It seems to me that one perspective envisions an AC charge at resonance moving across the capacitor plates, and through the load and into/along the wire leading away from the load.

On the other hand, there is the perspective that an AC charge at resonance reaches the proximal plate of a capacitor and induces a difference in potential vis a vis the distal plate. The ambient medium, seeking to restore balance, would respond through the distal plate, with a responding charge of its own, matching the frequency of the incoming charge. In this sense, though it might appear that the charge might be moving through the capacitor, something different is actually happening. I believe that it is in this sense that DavidE is looking at the capacitor and wire leading away from it to and from the load as an "antenna." I believe Don Smith has an illustration in one of his videos which illustrates this effect. Perhaps someone can post it. If I'm able to find it, I will.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting these two positions.
Bob

Now I see what you're saying. However in the things I've shown there is no capacitor in series, the output comes directly from the coil.

Personally I see many problems with the idea in relation to the stout copper bars experiment. To begin with, the nodes are present, which is explained by the standing wave principle as Tesla observed and described it. How would the nodes be produced by the atmosphere?

Also if you were to charge something, it's true that nature will want to restore balance, but that will usually be in the form of heat to cold, high potential to low potential. That is to say, energy will escape out of the system in an effort to equalise itself with surrounding space. All of space is unlikely to try to charge itself up to match the potential of an experimenter's little contraption. The sun's energy radiates to the cold of space, but space doesn't try to heat itself up to restore the imbalanced condition.

All in all I don't see why anyone would be led to believe that anything "unconventional" was happening. The effects are unusual, but I don't see how they imply some gaining of energy from the environment and such.

[Ernst]

For me, this would be the crux of the "antenna" issue. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted the positions.

It seems to me that one perspective envisions an AC charge at resonance moving across the capacitor plates, and through the load and into/along the wire leading away from the load.

On the other hand, there is the perspective that an AC charge at resonance reaches the proximal plate of a capacitor and induces a difference in potential vis a vis the distal plate. The ambient medium, seeking to restore balance, would respond through the distal plate, with a responding charge of its own, matching the frequency of the incoming charge. In this sense, though it might appear that the charge might be moving through the capacitor, something different is actually happening. I believe that it is in this sense that DavidE is looking at the capacitor and wire leading away from it to and from the load as an "antenna." I believe Don Smith has an illustration in one of his videos which illustrates this effect. Perhaps someone can post it. If I'm able to find it, I will.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting these two positions.
Bob

There is one more perspective.
The inner circuit; capacitor plate - load - capacitor plate, has a neutral charge meaning that it contains evenly distributed positive and negative charge. When the outer circuit; capacitor plate - generator - capacitor plate, is energized it induces an electrical current in the inner circuit by alternately attracting and repulsing charge on the capacitor plates.
When the outer circuit plate of capacitor A is made positive, then the outer circuit plate of capacitor B will be made negative, thus the inner circuit plate of capacitor A will attract electrons while the inner circuit plate of capacitor B will repulse electrons.
In this way the inner circuit gets polarized. The next half cycle the polarization will be opposite, so the electrons will have to move through the inner circuit from capacitor A to capacitor B. Meaning that there is a current in the inner circuit, without a true (conductive) connection to the outer circuit and without any role of the ambient medium.

I use the same mechanism to power ignition coils with 240 V mains power. If you're interested I can provide a picture and/or diagram.


Ernst

[DavidE]

Ernst

The deeper you travel down this rabbit whole - the more narratives that you will find that "explain" how it works. Each has its fervent followers.

What we are short of is proof that the scientific communities will agree upon. Or should I say proof that the public domain scientist will agree upon.

Technically you should be able to accumulate and utilize ambient power in some form, to do work. There are systems that require less power as you add load. On the face of this, that is not consistent with "it was provided by the power station" as an explanation. And even to strengthen that case, when you drive the circuit from a battery - there is no utility.

If you have such interest, and an open mind many Single Wire Power systems are likely creating radiant or like events - wave events that are harnessing HF high density power that once transformed can drive conventional loads. There is much evidence that suggests that a radiant or like event is an exchange with the environment. In fact, if you really want to keep it simplest - isn't all power energetically birthed (primal source) from the potentials that make up the ambient?

Only man could be arrogant enough to believe that he invented electricity. Nature organizes just fine without man's opinions and perspectives. A static charge? Lightning? Both examples of natures way of balancing the micros to the macros, that naturally occur in potentials to equilibrium. Potentials that build and balanced as a natural component of unlimited forces that exist all around us.

When we pick one flavor of energetic belief and spread it like gospel, we shut off our brains and all other possibilities.

When collaborating to gain new understandings there is no voice less important. Each of us cannot impose our limited "it can only be this" belief as a filter to new thinking.

The largest body of innovation will first exist in the counter-intuitive. For those with such ambition, we must each leave our comfy chairs of belief and join at a round table and exchange ideas. From this, all is possible.

[citfta]

I am going to add my 2 cents worth to this discussion. It seems there are two points of view in this thread. Some believe there is something special about single wire transmission and the "hairpin" circuit and others do not. If I am not understanding these two points of view then someone can correct me later.

I have already suggested that those looking at this single wire transmission idea should study about SWR and in particular the ARRL amateur radio operators handbook. Apparently that advice has been ignored.

If those who really want to understand about single wire transmission and the hairpin circuit would take the time to actually study they would understand why there is really nothing special going on with either circuit. But I guess they don't want to risk destroying their belief in something they believe is special.

If you were going to try and build a better race car engine would you ignore all the engineering efforts that had already been done? How can you possibly expect to build a better circuit if you won't even take the time to learn how circuits work from a conventional point of view. You have to start from some kind of solid foundation before you can even hope to build something better.

I have been accused many times on this forum of not being a believer in OU or free energy or what ever you want to call it. I am a firm believer that OU is possible but I hate to see people wasting their time looking at something that is not what they think it is.

As far as radiant energy goes I think it does exist. I have seen some very interesting things happen when hitting an inductance with short high energy pulses. If you want to work with radiant energy try pulsing the input to a transformer with short pulses and see what the output will do with different kinds of loads. You will not find any radiant energy in the single wire circuit or the hairpin circuit.

My only goal in posting this is to help people see they are wasting their energy and time looking at the one wire circuit or hairpin circuit if they are looking for some kind of free energy. Both these circuits are good learning tools but not OU in any way.

Respectfully,
Carroll

PS: I am curious about something. Where did the idea come from that there was something special about either of these circuits? Does anyone know?