Missunderstanding and misconceptions in transformers

[Magnethos]

Yes, Its like building a wall with bricks, we can all use Lego but what if the bricks were round, could you still do it?

With all things, if you cant understand, go back to basics and try again.

In my transformer I get reasonable performance, but If I understood how they actually work and not just how the model represents them, I could do better.

I suspect a part of the reason we cannot get an accurate understanding of the first model is that some of the interaction between the coils is direct and some is through the iron. Bifilar coils make excellent use of direct interaction.

The transformer described before was totally conventional. Now I will introduce the first variation Instead of using an iron rod I will use a U shaped piece of iron with a keeper, and instead of placing one coil on top of the other we have one coil on each leg.

Now the two coils have to interact through the iron and cannot interact directly between each other. With the addition of the keeper the efficiency rises somewhat but without it, the electrical performance is similar to before. The difference appears to be the magnetic pull of the core, it does not seem to be weakened as much by the current draw from the secondary. As I said, I don’t have accurate measuring equipment to test the pull but it does seem to perform better than when one coil is in top of the other. I'm only testing the pull on one leg. This would suggest to me that the interaction directly between two coils effects what is in the core.

This makes sense, but it exacerbates our original problem of the amount of magnetic field required to give our 80% current. Instead of 20% it may be 15 or even 10%. There must be something else going on here. The magnetic interaction going on between the two coils, has to be through the core. I believe the magnetic loss due to permeability in the core, and ohms law is the reason the current is only 80%. It seams to me that the flux from the primary coil has to reach the secondary via the core to work. If any flux was cancelled we would get a bigger drop in current in the secondary.

I had not thought of this before it was mentioned on this thread. The idea of the flux from the secondary being out of phase with the primary still seems possible and because of the physical change of location of the secondary that phase shift could be greater. What do you think?

Of course i could be completely wrong and barking up the wrong tree

I would like to post a longer answer, but the true thing is that I'm not a specialist in electrical transformer theories. Be sure that there is something more going on apart from the oficial explanation. If you look for information, you can find information about transformers operating in a non conventional way.

Maybe if you analize the MEG transformer from T.Bearden or some of the transformers of D.Smith, M.Bank, Sweet, Leedskalnin, etc.

You've been writting about coil interaction. Check out one of the D.Smith transformers based on one emitter coil and some receivers coils. Maybe it could help to you to better understand part of your questions.

[Hiwater]

MBrownn. Try this get 2 mot primarys and put back on one of the iron cores. Try to have them fit loosely on the core. Then put a load on the secondary. (wich is one of the primarys). As it is loaded the secondary will rise up, until the sec load is evened out. then the sec coil will drop back down. When loading the secondary and power being drawn it must create two like poles to repel each other. As the current drops the secondary coil will drop back down on the primary.. So what I did was put the sec in the position it wanted to be as it rose up and marked it. Then I knew where to adjust it to.

Just some food for thought as long as your on the subject of transformers.I tried putting coils on the outer legs. One leg is south and one leg is north. So I used for 4 coils and wound them crisscrossed. I never finished completing that project. Still sitting on the bench with all the rest.

[mbrownn]

MBrownn. Try this get 2 mot primarys and put back on one of the iron cores. Try to have them fit loosely on the core. Then put a load on the secondary. (wich is one of the primarys). As it is loaded the secondary will rise up, until the sec load is evened out. then the sec coil will drop back down. When loading the secondary and power being drawn it must create two like poles to repel each other. As the current drops the secondary coil will drop back down on the primary.. So what I did was put the sec in the position it wanted to be as it rose up and marked it. Then I knew where to adjust it to.

Just some food for thought as long as your on the subject of transformers.I tried putting coils on the outer legs. One leg is south and one leg is north. So I used for 4 coils and wound them crisscrossed. I never finished completing that project. Still sitting on the bench with all the rest.

Hi hiwater,

This is a good experiment as it proves the presence of the magnetic field in the secondary when drawing a current from it.

[tachyoncatcher]

Pulse Transformers

Hi @mbrown,
As Carrol eluded to, DC transformers (pulse transformer) are quite different from AC transformer due to the transient spikes resulting from the collapsing field of the pulsed DC as opposed to the gradient, magnetic reversal of an sinusoidal AC wave. You will also see a much different output wave from the input. I am not an expert in this field, but have been studying this for a little over a year and built a few. Here is a culmination of resources I found very useful in gaining a basic understanding of current design practices for DC transformers on Heritic.
Good Luck,
Randy

[mbrownn]

Hi @mbrown,
As Carrol eluded to, DC transformers (pulse transformer) are quite different from AC transformer due to the transient spikes resulting from the collapsing field of the pulsed DC as opposed to the gradient, magnetic reversal of an sinusoidal AC wave. You will also see a much different output wave from the input. I am not an expert in this field, but have been studying this for a little over a year and built a few. Here is a culmination of resources I found very useful in gaining a basic understanding of current design practices for DC transformers on Heritic.
Good Luck,
Randy

Thanks I will take a look