Magnet motor revelation

[lorinrandone]

I sent in the private space of each one of the link by my last video, but is not interested, so i will make the public, having to comment on another forum. Who will be affected? I'm not
That is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNOhuYaU1WI

Ufo estas utilizando la configuracion basica de Perendev. El angulo de 30 grados pegado en el diametro es muy rigido. El giro mas fuerte es exactamente debido a esto.No se funcionara en regimen de rampas, pero te garantizo que en configuracion de Perendev no funcionara. Yo estube con este como un par de años intentando hacerle funcionar. Ya has visto mi replica de Torian -3 que es la misma idea con la diferencia de angulo. La diferencia de 2.7 grados fuera del diametro utilizada por Mack le ofrece al rotor un arranque mas suave

Si quieres traducir eso bien, si no, no lo hagas, pero no metas esta jente en cosas mas complicadas de lo es.
Buena suerte cristian alba.

[BroMikey]

@UFO

You missed what I was saying to you.

This video and the first video rotor angles are opposite. Did you hear
me that time? That is what it clearly shows in the video's you made.

I went back and looks several times. Just do a quick visual and you will
see that you first video has the 30 degree angle rotor field pointed away
from the ramp, while your new video has the 30 degree angle on the rotor
magnet pointed toward the induction ramp.

Opposite. That is what I see.

Back to the shop

I'll show you what I mean later.

[wantomake]

Wantomake,
I see Ufo already answered but I'll post this anyway.
Ufo is right, you need to get the rotor magnet sets as close to 180 degrees apart as you can, and his 3 point reference is spot on. It doesn't take a machine shop to do it, all I used to lay it out was a compass, a straight edge, and a 30-60-90 triangle. I found that a hobbyist's X-acto saw from the local hobby store was good for the sides of the magnet cutouts. Just be as accurate as you can when laying it out and cutting and be prepared to do some filing and shimming to get it just right.

This picture shows how I drew my layout. My reference for the angle is different than Ufo's but on a 12” rotor it's only 2.72 degrees different from his. It's more important to make all the angles the same.

Mack

PS. Hey, that's my age too. 62 anyway. There must be something about kids born in the early 50's, eh? Like fallout from the A-bomb tests?

Hey Ufo,
No I did read your entire post. But the confusion is where your north and south poles are. Mack doesn't indicate the poles on the diagram from that post. I just assumed the pole is facing the 30° edge he shows. But your cad shows the setup you use and that clears it up.

It's easy for me to try that orientation cause my 1/2" rotor mags have the hole in them and can be turned.

Back to the shop and thanks ole friend,
wantomake
PS: Mine is set as Macks diagram.

[lorinrandone]

In the private of each member of this team will be the last video uploaded by me.
Good luck

[Ufopolitics]

30 Degrees Difference, same Rotation...

Hello Guys,


@Mikey and Wantomake: Hmmm......I can see that you guys, did not read my previous post...just watched the video...

I wrote there that I was using this time the way Mack has displayed the way he gets the 30º Angle, versus the one I has been using previously...On real model plus in previous CAD Diagrams.

The difference is that the 30º is taken from different reference lines, however, for both cases the rotation is exactly the same.

Mack's previous Post:(<<<LINK TO ORIGINAL POST)

Wantomake,
I see Ufo already answered but I'll post this anyway.
Ufo is right, you need to get the rotor magnet sets as close to 180 degrees apart as you can, and his 3 point reference is spot on. It doesn't take a machine shop to do it, all I used to lay it out was a compass, a straight edge, and a 30-60-90 triangle. I found that a hobbyist's X-acto saw from the local hobby store was good for the sides of the magnet cutouts. Just be as accurate as you can when laying it out and cutting and be prepared to do some filing and shimming to get it just right.

[IMG][/IMG]

This picture shows how I drew my layout. My reference for the angle is different than Ufo's but on a 12” rotor it's only 2.72 degrees different from his. It's more important to make all the angles the same.

Mack

Now, below are both diagrams together, next to each others, Mack's and mine...for easier comparison:

[IMG][/IMG]

ROTATION IS EXACTLY THE SAME FOR BOTH CASES.

Now, I find Mack's Angle "more aggressive" from the rotation standpoint benefit and based mainly on the Repulsion Thrust, besides is much more easier to set the center alignment line between both opposite rotor magnets apart by 180º.

@Mikey: I believe am getting more repulse thrust on this latest set up, but I will compare videos in slow motion...besides, like I wrote previously...I am not done modifying that repulse ramp yet...I still have to thin cross-section a bit more towards the ends, and that would add even more throw out angle. This latest repulse ramp has almost equal cross sections all the way to end...so it is somehow restricting acceleration.

Related to smooth versus coarser iron surfaces and "passing by" magnetic fields...I believe this issue must be analyzed from almost a microscopic way, where coarser surfaces have heavy grindings with deeper grooves where the field "sinks in", plus each deep streak reflects different and random angles to the field which is PERFECTLY DIRECTIONAL.

A smooth, basically even and aligned surface would be offering lesser resistance to the field rotation.

This is only my opinion...so, don't take it for "granted" until you experiment and see it for yourselves...


Well, getting back to work...got to add another module with ramps probably today.


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[BroMikey]

I decided to go into the lab for a few more tests because after
realizing I was going the right way from the beginning maybe I
am now going in reverse. Oh well Mack did say it goes into reverse.

Here is what happened. I had been going one direction for 2 weeks and
then I just recently changed direction. So I have given ample time to
both directions as far as ramping goes.

BUT I had never before set out to try both directions one after the
other with all of my ramps, with or without a stator.

This is my conclusion.

The field angle pointed at the ramp in the distance as it comes around
picks up the field much more powerfully. Once the rotor magnets get
over their stator magnets the force is cancelled leaving very little
kickback at the ramps end. So momentum from ramping over comes
what little cancellation kickback is leftover and the magnet continues
on it's way. We all know that.

The important thing is that when the fields are pointed toward the induction
ramp as it comes around, field strength is greater so the rotor magnet will
start it's run much sooner, almost twice as far away will it pick up the
ramp when using a stator magnet.

You see before when I did these tests I did use a stator so the difference
was only slightly noticeable, but upon re-investigation I must say that the
fields need to be pointed toward the ramp for best results.

It gets confusing with so many ramps and the way the ramp is angled
so I think this all takes time.

This really made a lot of sense to me after my last video where I showed
how the opposite side of the rotor magnet was sometimes interfering on
the repulsion side and now those anomalies are all gone.

So for me it is back to may original direction when Mack stopped me before
and asked me if I was really sure of that direction. So seeing how there
are only two directions I changed it.

So now I have tried it the other way for awhile.

[BroMikey]

Great video Ufo,
I noticed you have your magnets at 30° degree opposite of Bromikey on post #583 put rotating same direction.

Just curious if you get better rotation this way?
wantomake
Or are my eyes bad........

Okay Here it is GUYS @ UFO

I made these two pictures so we can look at them to see which

direction makes the most sense. I am stumped now.

Which way does he go?

[BroMikey]

Hello Guys,


I can refinish this Ramps and make them look like they have been chromed...basically on the tracking surface facing rotors...Magnetic Fields will slow down on rough, coarse iron surfaces...so, nothing like chrome finish to slide through.


Regards to All

Ufopolitics

Thanks UFO on the comment above, I didn't know.

Mack will be here soon enough to set the record straight on your nice

set up. You really are a good man for this job. I am not for sure on this

but I think your new rotor is backwards? I am getting mixed up. You see

the reason I say that, is because the last video was better than this one.

I see your beautiful new plastic, it is so nice and the forks are the same

but the rotor magnet has been changed so that now the 30 degrees is, I

think, the wrong way? It worked way better before.

And Mack did say it was right on the first video.



The way we get to a 30 degree angle is irrelevant. Excuse Me.


Just havin a bit of UFO, don't mind me. I am here to help so that's the

way it is going to be. I hope.



I don't know, maybe flip the rotor over? I am trying to think.

Just put the old one back on.


You see this is like the way I was doing it before and I thought we had

agreed that I was going the wrong way? I think I was going the wrong

way because now it seems to work better where the leading edge being

closet to the stator .

It is good to try it both ways. You will see that this way is backwards.

These are my thoughts and like I said Mack will be here soon enough.


One more thing. I tried what you tried on the attraction side by spreading

out the forks? Yeah and it made my rotor magnet stick.



Nice work. I am going to try it again and let you know. Try it the other way.

There is always a 30 and 60 degree angle on either side depending.

I'll check it again to see if it makes more sense in the long run concerning

the way the rotor magnet faces a ramp from a distance.



You have me thinking again. But one thing I can tell you beyond a shadow

of a doubt, your other rotor kicked out a magnet on the repulsion side

like it should be. This experiment proves it. So now you know.

[wantomake]

which way

Great video Ufo,
I noticed you have your magnets at 30° degree opposite of Bromikey on post #583 put rotating same direction.

Just curious if you get better rotation this way?
wantomake
Or are my eyes bad........

[Ufopolitics]

Testing different Ramp set up...

Hello Guys,

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_w8qgtCCjw&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]

TESTING RAMPS III

Here is a video on the whole new set up am working on now...And...Idk if you guys had noticed, but I have changed the way I had the 30º angle configuration previously by the one shown by Mack on Page 15, Post 442

And not like I had it in previews build on videos as well in all my previous CAD's

Big difference there, much easier to adjust center line and mounting not so complicated (thanks Mack!)...so I had to re-adjust almost everything...and ended up remaking a new rotor...a new base and stand...plus the rest...

Now, this small, 1/4 " cube magnets...are a piece of crap...N-52, N-42's from K&J Magnetics... it is about their very weak pulling force which is actually much less than what they list them for. They only Max pull in class 1 (steel/magnet) not even 3 lbs. And on top of that they have terrible differences between all...far from finding a pair that is close enough...

I bet on bigger magnets the differences would be much less, and small errors in parameters...plus the huge pulling force of 21 lbs...

However...I am going to get this Motor running even if it moves like a Clock...on low batteries...

I am still refining the bottom repulse ramp...as I make more of them to complete the next step of a second Module or Node right next to this one, (on 60º right towards rotation)...to see more and longer "continuity" of movement...

I can refinish this Ramps and make them look like they have been chromed...basically on the tracking surface facing rotors...Magnetic Fields will slow down on rough, coarse iron surfaces...so, nothing like chrome finish to slide through.

On the other thing I wanted to say is that by having just one bolt/nut, far away from magnetic interact area, ramps ends vibrate when rotor magnets passes by...this means losses...so I am building like a plastic piece to slide tight, sandwiched between stator and tines.


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[tachyoncatcher]

Same Here

Ditto here Mack. I'm not even close to discouragement. Actually quite excited. !

Randy

[Siggi1974]

Still in

Hi All,

Just to let you know, that I am also still in. I have my basic setup done and am testing first ramps on repulsion side. I already get a good throwout acceleartion with one ramp (3mm thickness)but major problems with drag during entering phase. Good ramps are not that easy to build and cut. My CNC is not made for milling steel. I use 12x12mm cubes N48 magnets on a diameter of 300mm for the rotor. The stator is just two of them. Distance of rotor to stator magnet is approximately 10mm. The first step is done and works perfect with my setup, exactly like described by Mack. Unfortunately I do not have enough time to work constantly...so also only step by step It would be brilliant if we could work out a kind of To Do list or Check List for the ramps to improve them faster, means what to do, if the rotor behaves like this or that for repulsion side and attraction side.

Thanks Mack for everything you have given us until now. We have just begun and will end when this beast is running.

Best regards
Siggi

[wantomake]

Still experimenting

Not to be a yes man but I agree Ufo.

I have the 1/2" N-52 mags, same size 12" rotor made from same material as yours Madmack.

The exact fabrication of ramps has slowed me but opened understanding of how it works. No excuses, no useless comments.

wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

It is absolutely Not your fault...at all.

Everyone,
I hope you all realize that this motor is the sum of separate effects. Someone elsewhere keeps insisting that you perform tests for a motor and not doing so right now is somehow proof that I am full of it and just jerking you around. I hope you are not letting him discourage you because if you are then you might as well give up now. He can't seem to get it into his head that you do not have a complete motor to test yet. We are working on the separate components. After you have the whole motor then by all means run all the performance tests you want.

I have been trying to get you all to see the individual components, the effects they must have, and how they will add up into the final motor assembly. If you are trying to get full rotation now, please wait. It would be like trying to get a 4 stroke gas engine to run without the camshaft.

I have listed 6 steps to accomplish. You guys are at step 4-5 and struggling. Just know that this is to be expected because it's the most difficult part. Don't give up now. Get the rotor to accelerate past the stator magnets having more pull toward the stator magnets with the 2 ramps vs. either ramp by itself. That's all for right now. Don't worry about any back drag as the rotor leaves the end of the ramp. That is dealt with in step 6.

Step 6 is the final step where you get the rotor to maintain its momentum after passing the stator magnet, then transition the rotor magnet from one ramp to the next ramp without loss. Transformer steel for the final ramps will be mandatory then and we will be working with 4 stator magnets. When you get this step done you will have everything you need to know to build the running motor.

Regards,
Mack

Mack,

It is absolutely NOT Your fault that WE, all replicators on this Thread,(and any other around) have NOT come up as of now with EXACTLY the same spec set up as you have described in your first, second and third posts.

So far I have NOT seen ONE SINGLE identical replication based on your description...
I, include Myself, of course, within that group of members here that are NOT doing the supposed work.

Assuming that it "should" work with "similar" components...IS NOT the EXACT WAY.

I assumed that 1/4 cubes as long as they would be of N-52 would work...however, the pulling force from this magnets does NOT work the same way -in scale- as the geometry does.

It is NOT the same a magnet that can pull 20 pounds as one that can ONLY pulls 3.0 pounds...

You have rendered here a motor that has work for you with certain spec's...but the actual relationship based on required pulling force to be either scaled up or down has not been established as of now...and maybe you don't even know it yourself, just because if something WORKS for you a certain way...THEN, WHY IN THIS WORLD SHOULD WE CHANGE IT BEFORE MAKING WHAT WORKS TO PERFORM ??!!

I believe You should just IGNORE all comments from the stupid People...unfortunately this world is FULL OF THEM...a MAIN REASON WHY...we are ALL still dependent of OIL, GAS and Diesel Farting Machines!!

Until someone comes up with the IDENTICAL setup you have described here...and claims it don't work...ONLY THEN...We should pay attention to...BUT no comments Till WE ALL SEE IT ON A VIDEO...Period.

Otherwise is just PURE BS.

Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[mkt3920]

Mack,
Not discouraged at all, just not used to metal working (ramps) so moving slow at that stage. Thank you for staying active here.
Kent