Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

Thanks Madmack,
Sorry your associates are giving you all this trouble and I hope you can stay here on this forum until one of us can finish this project.

I plan to use laminate soft metal now that it's clear which way it's used. I have much I can use for test rigs. My magnets came today so I'll get busy.

Trying to draw to scale the ramp as you described them.

Again I hope all works out good for you.

Bromikey, how are holding your laminates together?

Ufopolitics, great video and nice build.

wantomake

For now I stretch black tape over the stack like you would a baseball bat.

In the end after a stack is cut it needs to be clamped together and either

tack welded and or light very thin weight fiberglass/hardener.


Or buy some clear epoxy in a small tube/ same thing. Like transformers

I tend to put a few tacks in key locations AND resin while clamped in

a vice. Make sure you use 1/16th inch rods if you tack weld.

[BroMikey]

Ladies and gentleman, I am now the recipient of a CEASE AND DESIST demand specifically citing this forum thread.........


Here is some straight to the point information: The ramp splits earlier than my drawing shows. In my side view, where the ramp approaches the rotor at a severe angle and then levels off, that is roughly the middle point of the fork spread. In other words, by the time the ramp reaches that leveling off point the split is almost half as wide as it gets. And with a 1/2” square stator magnet face, the gap between the forks is about 1/4” wide at that point. If you scale it out you will see that the angle formed by the V of the forks is roughly 16 to 18 degrees. In my top view, about 8 degrees for each fork measured from the horizontal center line of the stator magnet.

As the distance between the forks widens, the distance between the forks and the rotor magnet decreases, mostly due to the arc of the rotor travel, and this helps cancel the back drag caused by the angle between the two forks.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

Hi Mack

I have not addressed the proportions by degrees yet but I hope to in a

future drawing. I have enclosed the previous drawing with red "X" over

the errors so folks coming by can see my mistakes as well as my

"POWER STROKE" forward in the process of learning. All those years

digging and digging in those patents with your bare hands do help to

find a direction to go in. It is to bad about your so called partners

who seem so friendly till they think they have you. It really is in bad

taste, but why do I get the feeling you knew. Your are to smart to let

folks puppet you. Set up those ducks. I'm tellin ya I can't hold it.


Anyway enough of that, but a bully does get my hair standing at attention.


Now back to the gold. The second diagram compliments the first in

the form of a correction so this really turns on the lights, so to

speak. Also I think my ramp length is not sized correctly

based on the difference between 8 degrees and 18 degrees? Give some

time to think this one over.

Above are YOUR WORDS concerning these ramps and magnets.

Now how is that going to hurt anyone your honor? What a world.

[BroMikey]

You do not have to any apologize

To buy more magnets is stupid considering that I have not seen any comment that this artifact he will succeed with cube magnets

It has been talked about, where were you? Round magnets have the wrong

field. Round magnets have a round field, square magnets have a square field.

Square magnets only cost pennies. Buy square one's and follow perfect.

Maybe a round magnet motor is working? Yes?

@ EVERYONE

[RAMSET]

they don't sound like "good" fellows?

Mack
appreciate your efforts ,as well as the fine Gents here [and elsewhere]
also being shared here

A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]

with all respect
Chetkremens@gmail.com

[Ufopolitics]

Mack's Updated Attraction Ramp

Ladies and gentleman, I am now the recipient of a CEASE AND DESIST demand specifically citing this forum thread and all other public or private venues. Since everything I have discussed is prior art or general design advice I refuse to do so. My so called partners may have control of a specific motor design but they do not own the knowledge I have. I have not revealed any information specific to the patent application that was supposed to be filed “for our mutual benefit” before now.

Here is some straight to the point information: The ramp splits earlier than my drawing shows. In my side view, where the ramp approaches the rotor at a severe angle and then levels off, that is roughly the middle point of the fork spread. In other words, by the time the ramp reaches that leveling off point the split is almost half as wide as it gets. And with a 1/2” square stator magnet face, the gap between the forks is about 1/4” wide at that point. If you scale it out you will see that the angle formed by the V of the forks is roughly 16 to 18 degrees. In my top view, about 8 degrees for each fork measured from the horizontal center line of the stator magnet.

As the distance between the forks widens, the distance between the forks and the rotor magnet decreases, mostly due to the arc of the rotor travel, and this helps cancel the back drag caused by the angle between the two forks.

The function of the ramp is to provide the “power stroke” as Ufo says, then as the ramp continues toward the stator magnet, to at least maintain the rotor speed until the ramp's attraction to the rotor can be dissipated as much as possible, leaving the two magnets as the sole attraction mechanism, again as much as possible. This function is what must be accomplished with this ramp. Period, the end.

Rue,
We are not canceling magnetic poles, we balance the force applied to the rotor by two sets of magnets at separate points. Later we will alter that balance at advantageous points in the rotation so the magnet sets can aid the rotation.

BroMikey,
Eddy currents circulate parallel to the rotor shaft, so the laminations are 90 degrees to the shaft to limit the circulation. Exactly the same as in an electric motor. No need to read between the lines here.
BTW you do have the view labels reversed in post 320.
You asked earlier about the rotor material, it sounds to me like you would be the expert there. I just asked my plastic supplier for a strong, dimensionally stable nylon that was easily machinable and he sold me a material that fit the bill. Sorry I don't have the invoice and I don't remember the exact type of nylon but I got it from Sabic Polymershapes.

Cristian, I'm not exactly sure what the question is. The air gap is a variable, it depends on the strength of the magnets and how you decide to terminate the forks. The gap is a fraction of the stator magnet width. The cross section area of the ramp should be at least the same as the rotor magnet. The forks, at least half that at the beginning of the fork and less at the end of the fork. The point is to carry all the lines of flux of the rotor magnet until you wish to diminish the attraction between the rotor and ramp at the stator magnet, and there is more than one way to accomplish that. K&J Magnetics has information on the thickness of iron it takes to contain all the lines of force for their magnets.

Randy & Wantomake,
I used a 1/4” x 1” mild steel ramp for my initial tests. If it becomes too magnetic, heat it to a dull red & let it slowly air cool.

@Everyone,
If any of you are having excessive difficulty balancing more than two pole sets and ramps together, the motor can be divided into multiple rotors and stators on a common shaft. I'm not advocating doing this, just pointing out the possibility.

I hope I have answered all the questions that have been asked of me. If I have overlooked anyone, please repost and I will try to address the question.

Come on you guys! Some of you are so close to finishing this 2nd step I'm bouncing in my seat with anticipation.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

Hello to All,

[IMG][/IMG]

Here is a CAD that I've made based on my interpretation from Mack's latest description about the attraction ramp...and I have bold the essential parts and underlined the details on his post quoted above related to CAD design:

The Angle of "initial aperture" of fork is somewhere from 16 to 18 degrees, and 8º from stator center line to fork inner border...so if we must reach the 1/4 inch gap at stator, which adds to one (1) Inch (1/4+1/2+1/4= 1") of Total Fork Opening....where it levels parallel to stator...then in my believe it should be a "smooth" transition and not a steep angle like in previous picture shown on left...

The Ramp Cross Section should be almost the same as the rotor magnet...or 1/2X1/2".

If cross section of ramp is equal to rotor magnet...then it should comprehend-embrace around or "almost" the entire south pole from stator...or 1/2", as seen on Side View of my CAD.

This makes much more sense to me...as the iron mass from ramp must REALLY deviate/distort-absorb the stator south pole with the same or almost the same magnetic field strength...PLUS, Ramp DOES weakens this way the Stator South Field allowing rotor magnet to pass the alignment line which would be our "Power Stroke Angle" assisted by the Repulsion Field at 180º apart.

Now if anyone believes I have it wrong at some point...then, please post and image your ideas...


Thank You, good luck and success in your builds


Ufopolitics


EDIT 1: Now, also if we re-read Mack's words quoted below, basically the bold-underlined ones:

The cross section area of the ramp should be at least the same as the rotor magnet. The forks, at least half that at the beginning of the fork and less at the end of the fork...

From above I interpret that each fork starts with about half cross section of rotor (1/4") and ends up with less...meaning that by the time it reaches South Stator Pole it has less mass than the start for each individual fork...this part is not represented on my CAD above, since I kept each fork the same cross section mass from start to end.

So I am uploading the "fading" forks toward stator CAD below:

[IMG][/IMG]

So, my question to Mack is:

Do we reduce the whole cross section from forks towards stator, meaning not only as seen on Top View above, but also in Side View?

And...maybe...direct the fork "tines" more towards the very front face of stator magnet pole?

Regards

U.P.

[BroMikey]

If I remember Mikey. He said no to working with round magnets, but I said otherwise and you quoted me like you, read it again
I said that I agreed not ensure success with square magnets I do not see a reason for controversy, really. Furthermore, this is the last post in this thread
Another thing is that in Europe Mikey magnets cube eg 15/15 mm out 4-5 euros each, and thinking that is needed to buy at least 10 units (4-pole rotor) to select them with the same force came in 50 euros to test works between. This seems cheap?
Best regards

I do not understand any of your english, no good. I do not understand.

I only guess what you say. Maybe yes, maybe no. Not sure the answer.

not sure the question. complication and bad words, no good.

Sorry sorry no good.

[tachyoncatcher]

Sharing

This is a bit of topic, but not really. Our patent system has really become a sad state of affairs. It is really unfortunate how someone can steal an idea that is openly shared, patent it, then turn around and sue the individual who gave away the idea. This is done, not because the patent holder has been damaged. No, it is done for suppression. Due to the cost of defense and the patent holder has deep pockets, so the inventor just quits sharing out of concern for his future financial well being or that of his family. The patent holder then has exclusivity to the idea and suppresses further development from the inventor and those who would wish to improve on his ideas never shared. It's really a sorry example of how inhuman our legal system has become.

There are ways to protect yourself from these vampires, but it is almost as involved as applying for a patent. This information has graced this forum before, but if you are interested in more information, here is the link. As innovators and doers, we must be ever diligent in our sharing of ideas. Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is today.

I will never stop sharing my ideas, but I have changed the way I share. It's sorta like vomiting now.

Take Care,

Randy

[Ufopolitics]

I do not understand any of your english, no good. I do not understand.

I only guess what you say. Maybe yes, maybe no. Not sure the answer.

not sure the question. complication and bad words, no good.

Sorry sorry no good.

Mikey,

Sorry, but I have to post this since I have not stopped laughing....

His English is as bad as your French is?




So... vous parlez Français avec Cristian...maybe you guys will understand better that way....

Cristian speaks English...and You speak French hahahahaha

Just a touch of humor...

[Ufopolitics]

Open Source Science...

This is a bit of topic, but not really. Our patent system has really become a sad state of affairs. It is really unfortunate how someone can steal an idea that is openly shared, patent it, then turn around and sue the individual who gave away the idea. This is done, not because the patent holder has been damaged. No, it is done for suppression. Due to the cost of defense and the patent holder has deep pockets, so the inventor just quits sharing out of concern for his future financial well being or that of his family. The patent holder then has exclusivity to the idea and suppresses further development from the inventor and those who would wish to improve on his ideas never shared. It's really a sorry example of how inhuman our legal system has become.

There are ways to protect yourself from these vampires, but it is almost as involved as applying for a patent. This information has graced this forum before, but if you are interested in more information, here is the link. As innovators and doers, we must be ever diligent in our sharing of ideas. Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is today.

I will never stop sharing my ideas, but I have changed the way I share. It's sorta like vomiting now.

Take Care,

Randy

Hey Randy,


Don't feel bad, there are other ways besides the link you provided...like Open Science sites...they are all over.

The point is that IF there is a Public Article on a Public Server which the Inventor, or original developer can not change himself...and it is digitally time stamped...there is no one who can patent anything out from the original idea after that uploading date.

Even though, sometimes the USPTO search examiners do not do a good job...or the attorney's from the Patent troll...then he gets a patent...but it is always enforced to be taken down anytime by a simple "Office Action" sent attention to the USPTO Examiner's on such illegal patent...

Now related to this Thread and disclosure made by Mack...

I really and honestly doubt very much that the USPTO will grant a patent to a "Magnet Motor"...since it is accepting what they have been denying for over 200 years...a Motion Perpetual Machine.

Even though I know there are many "Magnet Motors" in there the same way there are a lot of UFO's Crafts, even some that looks like my gran daughter painted them...


Stupidity is everywhere


Take care, got to work...


Ufopolitics

[lorinrandone]

Mikey,

Sorry, but I have to post this since I have not stopped laughing....

His English is as bad as your French is?




So... vous parlez Français avec Cristian...maybe you guys will understand better that way....

Cristian speaks English...and You speak French hahahahaha

Just a touch of humor...

Ufo, deja de reirte hombre. Es la culpa del Google chrome por lo que me ha salido. Asegura por favor a Mikey, que en ningun momento no quise ofenderle De todas formas es un tio muy majo y seria una tonteria insultarle.
Yo intentaba explicarle que queria darle una oportunidad a mis imanes redondos,y como en este asunto yo personalmente no estoy seguro que va a salir buenos resultados, le dije que en Europa los imanes de cubo de 15/15mm se venden con 4-5 euros de cada y no valia la pena gastar mas dinero.Asi que lo iba preguntando si le parece barato unos 50 euros gastados Posiblemente que en este momento a salido mal la traduccion.
Te agradezco por todo. cristian.

[MadMack]

Ufo,

May I ask a favor of you? Could you put a square neo magnet pole face down on your crt monitor & post a picture of it? I would like for everyone to be able to see the “field lines” and the areas of highest strength.

I guess my ability to convey a design with words leaves a lot to be desired so from here on I will use drawings. Look at this one, it accurately shows the angle of the fork tines. It does not show the reduction in cross section or the ends of the fork tines. The angle of the upward bend at the left of the fork isn't exact either.

In the top view, the rotor magnet (dashed lines) at this point of rotation will be strongly attracted by the stator magnet. From this point onward is where the rotor's attraction to the ramp should be diminishing and where the cross section of the forks will be decreasing. By the time the two magnets are aligned we want the attraction to be between the two magnets with as little as possible left between the rotor magnet & ramp. How well this is accomplished has a great affect on the performance.

Regards,
Mack

[BroMikey]

ROUND MAGNETS and shapes on a CRT this can be compared to

the square magnet patterns later. Round magnets are not square magnets

and square magnets are not round magnets. Look at round magnets.

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,

May I ask a favor of you? Could you put a square neo magnet pole face down on your crt monitor & post a picture of it? I would like for everyone to be able to see the “field lines” and the areas of highest strength.

Regards,
Mack

It is my absolute pleasure Mack,

[IMG][/IMG]

I just placed magnet on a plexiglass screen on top of some rubber mounts...in order not to see the black out on screen.

Pole face down.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Square Magnets versus Cylinder Magnets...

Hello to All,

It is absolutely right that a square magnet will generate a different kind of field from a magnet cylinder. The main difference is in the side ways expansion on squares versus a narrower field on round cylinders.

It is simple...all motors (referring to ALL commercial motors, not "inventions") are based on square electromagnets and not "rounded" electromagnets...

I do not believe this discussion will take us anywhere anyways...Mack's WORKING MOTOR is based on square magnets...and period.

A Replication is supposed to be EXACTLY as the original components are...otherwise it is a waste of time.

An Arc Segment magnet is different...a Ring Magnet is different...and so on and on and on...we could be here arguing about this for a long while...

Hola a todos,

Es absolutamente correcto que el campo magnético de un imán cuadrado es diferente al de uno cilíndrico. La diferencia principal está en la expansión del imán cuadrado hacia sus lados. El cilindro se expande mucho más estrecho.

Es sencillo...todos los motores (refiriéndome a los motores comerciales, no a los "inventos" están basados en electro imanes cuadrados y no electroimanes redondos.

No creo que esta discusión nos lleve a ningún sitio...El Motor de Mack que si funciona, está basado en imanes cuadrados y punto.

Una replicación está supuesta a ser EXACTAMENTE una reproducción con los mismos componentes utilizados...de otra forma es una pérdida de tiempo.

Un imán con forma de Segmento de Arco emite un campo magnético diferente, y así mismo un Anillo es a su vez diferente al resto...y así pudiésemos estar acá por un rato largo...


Regards to All.


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Cristian Translation...for free...

Ufo, deja de reirte hombre. Es la culpa del Google chrome por lo que me ha salido. Asegura por favor a Mikey, que en ningun momento no quise ofenderle De todas formas es un tio muy majo y seria una tonteria insultarle.
Yo intentaba explicarle que queria darle una oportunidad a mis imanes redondos,y como en este asunto yo personalmente no estoy seguro que va a salir buenos resultados, le dije que en Europa los imanes de cubo de 15/15mm se venden con 4-5 euros de cada y no valia la pena gastar mas dinero.Asi que lo iba preguntando si le parece barato unos 50 euros gastados Posiblemente que en este momento a salido mal la traduccion.
Te agradezco por todo. cristian.

Ufo stop laughing man. Blame Google Chrome translator why it came out like that. Please make sure to tell Mikey that I never wanted to insult him, he is a great guy and would be off to insult him.

I was trying to explain that I was giving a chance to my round magnets and in because of previous attempts and experience til now no one has resulted with positive results.

I told him that in Europe the squares are too expensive, around 4-5 euros each so total around 50 euros for all.

Translation came out bad, sorry.

Thanks for everything