Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

Hello to All,

I have built a few of this Two Module set up...and it was very hard to find a perfect balancing...even measuring rotor magnets at front outer points to shaft...considering perfect 30º angles in both...and even so I still had some issues at 180º one side was fine while the other turn did not do it as the first.


I felt I should write/share about this geometrical fact...to avoid frustration in not reaching your proper/perfect balancing...even though many of you may have considered this line in all your builds.


Regards
Ufopolitics

@UFO

I am trying to catch up my reading and you have much to offer.

Glad we got rid of the offensive. You are right to swing hard bub.

The writing here about angles is important to builders.

Also now that I am rebuilding I am thinking still go cheap, using low

cost materials til I understand the mechanical forms.

So far I follow the rotor angles and that stator magnets are held

from the rear. Now it looks like one of the stator magnets needs to cover

one side with shielding. So maybe I should leave room when I make

the rear mount? For a slip of thin steel?????? Shield. So now the stator

magnet is only being held from 3 sides on one side. Both can not be used

at the same time as each picture shows shielding overlap.

So I am assuming the repulsion side gets one shielding as shown and the

attraction side gets the other shield. Still thinking and my magnets are round

so I am only thinking. I want to build a stator magnet mount but don't

know yet what's what. If you see my problem.


The second shielding picture shows less material on the bottom side

of the stator magnet. The pictures look almost identical, they of course

are not. Just a tiny bit less material at the bottom of the picture trimmed

off flush. I am assuming that one exhibits more force than the other as

a means of balancing or tuning. I think you are going to be instrumental

once again helping me to see into the shunting aspect due to your history

in motor design. I am interested also in your progress with "Y" ramps

that you have found to be experimentally effective.

All in good time. For not these are SOME of my thoughts.

Also shielding thickness and the use of the calculators will prove to

be a great asset. I have not studied shielding enough to know much

yet I know that it must be made of transformer steel.


I need to look again at the calculators for hints as i watch the numbers.



https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp...ding-materials


K&J Magnetics on Shielding thickness and type of metals.


Yes, there are some specialized materials specifically made for magnetic shielding. The foremost of these is MuMetal, an industry reference material defined in Milspec 14411C. Companies that provide magnetic shielding materials typically offer a version of MuMetal, and some other proprietary alloys. Most of these have a high nickel content, with either 50% or 80% nickel in the mix.

[BroMikey]

OK, the pressure on me is ramping up so here's the rest of it.


I have given this openly and freely and I sincerely hope all of you will keep on track and share your ideas and results with each other and see this through to success. Persevere and you will succeed. You have everything you need now.

Best regards,
Mack

Don't worry Mack we won't let you down. Here are some tests

for each of the MadMack builders. Remember I told you all

I made an adjustable ramp? Well here it is adjusted 3 ways.

Keep in mine that my tests may not help you who are using square

magnets. When my square magnets get here these tests may be

the exact opposite. Don't let my tests keep you from doing your own.

[gene gene]

Help Please

From K&J Magnetics are the B888-2PE-N52 the right magnets for the rotor?
How many might I need to achieve balance?

And are the B88XO the ones I need for the stators?
How many to order?

Thanks, Gene

[MadMack]

Pricing is from 2013

B888-2PA-N52 @$4.97 ea.

B88Y0 @$13.93 ea.


To begin with you need two of each for testing.

[Ufopolitics]

My Interpretation of Mack's Magnetic Motor...

Hello to All,

First please allow me to write this part "in general" speaking...

@Cornboy: Hey Old Friend!!...is grrrreat to see you here!!...I know you are a heck of a builder, and would be able to thrust this design all the way into the world. So a very warm welcome to you.

@Mack: Thanks for all your disclosure here...It is enough for Us to build the whole thing with what you have very patiently shared...Anyone with Motoring Skills and Electromagnetism knowledge can be able to make this a reality...I believe we all have more than enough to make it happen...and it would be only our limitations the ones keeping from not achieving this very exciting project.

Thanks again...and please, don't take any crap from anyone, your knowledge is all yours...it is gained through years of experience plus your capability to go straight forward...and wish one day we would meet again.

@BroMikey: Yes there are always gonna be the attacks everywhere we go trying to make a demonstration that Free Energy, Motion Perpetual and the works exists...no matter what the old physics concepts has tried so hard to encapsulate within our brains...there are ALWAYS going to be guys like Us all around...The "Divergents"... that don't accept whatever crap they have shown trying to inculcate/stamp in our heads ...and have done it no matter for how many hundred years...we will be here friend to defeat them all...always!

Now, related to "Technicalities" and the way I see them...

THE WRONG ROTATION SENSE

There was a post from MadMack that I just cited a fragment below containing the very essence from it, and it refers to a graphic (which I added below as well) that you've displayed before, BroMikey:

BroMikey, post #61. Perfect starting point. Are you sure about that rotation direction? I'm not saying it's wrong, just be sure. Notice that if you flip the rotor over the magnet angles slant the opposite way? Makes it real easy to test one vs. the other after a ramp is in place. It also makes it easy to put the rotor in backwards during a reassembly.

Mack's insistence above... for you and of course...for All of Us building this motor, to test both possibilities, by flipping rotor is VERY obvious...and strong.

If you look at my settings in all my CAD's is the same as yours...well, it is the VERY WRONG WAY friend!

I have conducted tests in both ways, since I made my rotor that could be reversed...and let me just say this....We were (and whoever else that was ONLY trying this way, as your graphic above) attempting to start a gas engine with the distributor mounted at 180º OFF from Compression TDC....it will NEVER start if we are sending the spark at the Exhaust Stage Timming...and not at compression cycle.

The "Power Stroke" is so clear it will jump in front of your eyes...when we do the right placement of rotor/magnets angles...

I have been writing this post approximately for three hours (including making the CAD below)...just because I consider that we all have ALL the tools required to make this Motor work...is only up to Us to make it happen...on my end, I will try my best to guide anyone who is replicating it...and showing his/her failures or negative issues graphically by whatever means, while I build mine. And I am NOT saying it is simple...we are playing with INVISIBLE FORCES at all times...and our interpretation could render right or wrong results...only severe and repetitive testing with as many different options available will give us the right paths...

[IMG][/IMG]

The CAD above kind of summarizes all the disclosed material by Mack, including the latest shunting the stators...and only assuming that Repulsion Ramps are identical to Attract Ramps...since He did not refer to any different specifications previously...except to use the back poles from stators as an Option that we should decide if or not to follow...

Any Motor have an Idling Stage-Side (a gain of inertia with weakest or no forces applied,(turned off energy to coils for the case of rotor coils)...some have it very narrow timing...and some wider angles and longer times...As also a Strong side where the attract-repulse forces are executed with the presence of rotor magnets or coils.

The "Modular" repetition generates the continuity of rotation at the right angles distribution, in order to complete the 360º for full-constant rotation.

In the case of this Magnetic Motor, we should consider to space Modules properly, in order NOT to interfere/overlap interactions for each rotor magnet-stator-ramp module with the adjacent ones, which could bring undesired results.

Even though we all have Mack's recommendations of which system (number of modules plus angles apart) has worked for him...

I will now get back to work on this beautiful Machine...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: @BroMikey and anyone who Mack has called/cited his/her posts: Please, DO NOT re edit them as it would change the thread learning direction when a newcomer starts reading...for example you Mikey...You have changed post #61...by re editing text...plus you took off the image that Mack was calling/citing for wrong rotation sense...Don't do it, please!...I am glad I found image in the previous page...I have been reading those two posts for a while...so I noticed the change.

[Ufopolitics]

From here on...

Hello again,

Previous post was too long already...so, split it to this one...to add some more...sorry.

Once we all get this machine running steadily...no matter what speed or what torque...there are many, but many ways/possibilities to increase performance...just citing a "couple"...

Think (like Mack wrote before) about setting ramps at rotor as well...

Think about setting shunts at rotor magnets...and of course, by doing this...we will be making our motor a One Way Rotation Only...so, it is our choice. But who needs reverse in a motorcycle or a Bicycle...or a Prime Mover for a Generator?

Think about increasing the number of rotors/stators in a stack array...with same/common propelling shaft.

Materials to build this kind of motor Housings/Rotors for heavy duty assignments/applications?...Think about KEVLAR FIBERS molded with Catalyzed Epoxy or Polyester Resins...


Good luck to all replicating this Motion Perpetual Machine...


Ufopolitics

[tak22]

Ok.That was funny. What about the REAL running magnetic motor in REAL world ?
Btw you didn't realized I posted old patent describing similar embodiment with additional ratched device and lever? Two opposite side magnets must be moved simultaneously using lever and rotor is advanced by ratched device working on the shaft gear. it worked in 1918 and I'm sure it would work now

Thank you, I've taken the time to analyze and understand this patent and I appreciate the simplicity and the complexity of it. The clever part is where it uses horseshoe shape magnets to create 'natural' neutral ended ramps that allow for getting past the 'sticky' point with momentum. No 180 degree balancing or exotic forked ramps required (not a dig at the current topic, I just like simplicity and ease of construction). Probably a good rewrite would make the operating principles more easily understood, and that would free up the imagination to apply more 'modern' methods to achieve the same result. As is it would be a very fun project for anyone with mad 3D printing skills. I'm going to add this one to my list of future projects. I would encourage anyone that can see the potential to start a new thread to get more eyes on it.

tak

[boguslaw]

Thank you, I've taken the time to analyze and understand this patent and I appreciate the simplicity and the complexity of it. The clever part is where it uses horseshoe shape magnets to create 'natural' neutral ended ramps that allow for getting past the 'sticky' point with momentum. No 180 degree balancing or exotic forked ramps required (not a dig at the current topic, I just like simplicity and ease of construction). Probably a good rewrite would make the operating principles more easily understood, and that would free up the imagination to apply more 'modern' methods to achieve the same result. As is it would be a very fun project for anyone with mad 3D printing skills. I'm going to add this one to my list of future projects. I would encourage anyone that can see the potential to start a new thread to get more eyes on it.

tak

Thank You. At least someone who can see the real potential I'm sure you would not waste time with this patent, contrary to what I see around
Guys, I have no experience or ability to build you a working model and attract your attention. No, slick images or moving 3D films, just my pure intuition - if someone is interested then please create new thread and please share freely - in reality even a working magnetic motor is not a very useful device if you haven't got a lenz free generator to combine with .
It breaks my heart to see your attempts on in my huble opinion not-working design. This patent application is from old good times when everything was simpler.

[BroMikey]

Hello

THE WRONG ROTATION SENSE

There was a post from MadMack that I just cited a fragment below containing the very essence from it, and it refers to a graphic (which I added below as well) that you've displayed before, BroMikey:



Mack's insistence above... for you and of course...for All of Us building this motor, to test both possibilities, by flipping rotor is VERY obvious...and strong.

If you look at my settings in all my CAD's is the same as yours...well, it is the VERY WRONG WAY friend!

I have conducted tests in both ways, since I made my rotor that could be reversed...and let me just say this....We were (and whoever else that was ONLY trying this way, as your graphic above) attempting to start a gas engine with the distributor mounted at 180º OFF from Compression TDC....it will NEVER start if we are sending the spark at the Exhaust Stage Timming...and not at compression cycle.

The "Power Stroke" is so clear it will jump in front of your eyes...when we do the right placement of rotor/magnets angles...

I have been writing this post approximately for three hours (including making the CAD below)...just because I consider that we all have ALL the tools required to make this Motor work...is only up to Us to make it happen...on my end, I will try my best to guide anyone who is replicating it...and showing his/her failures or negative issues graphically by whatever means, while I build mine. And I am NOT saying it is simple...we are playing with INVISIBLE FORCES at all times...and our interpretation could render right or wrong results...only severe and repetitive testing with as many different options available will give us the right paths...



The CAD above kind of summarizes all the disclosed material by Mack, including the latest shunting the stators...and only assuming that Repulsion Ramps are identical to Attract Ramps...since He did not refer to any different specifications previously...except to use the back poles from stators as an Option that we should decide if or not to follow...

Any Motor have an Idling Stage-Side (a gain of inertia with weakest or no forces applied,(turned off energy to coils for the case of rotor coils)...some have it very narrow timing...and some wider angles and longer times...As also a Strong side where the attract-repulse forces are executed with the presence of rotor magnets or coils.

The "Modular" repetition generates the continuity of rotation at the right angles distribution, in order to complete the 360º for full-constant rotation.

In the case of this Magnetic Motor, we should consider to space Modules properly, in order NOT to interfere/overlap interactions for each rotor magnet-stator-ramp module with the adjacent ones, which could bring undesired results.

Even though we all have Mack's recommendations of which system (number of modules plus angles apart) has worked for him...

I will now get back to work on this beautiful Machine...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: @BroMikey and anyone who Mack has called/cited his/her posts: Please, DO NOT re edit them as it would change the thread learning direction when a newcomer starts reading...for example you Mikey...You have changed post #61...by re editing text...plus you took off the image that Mack was calling/citing for wrong rotation sense...Don't do it, please!...I am glad I found image in the previous page...I have been reading those two posts for a while...so I noticed the change.

Thanks UFO

So I have been running in reverse? Humm... I wouldn't doubt it. I

will need more time to review your last post to follow you and will try

the ramps in the other rotation. POST #61 was changed on rotation

direction and I am still unsure.


There are only two direction possible. Let me see if I can get it to ramp the

other way. Thanks for your input and dedication to this project.

Yes this could get confusing. Here is what I started doing after 2 weeks.

When a diagram is found to be wrong.

So I have been running in reverse. I can't wait to see forward.

I knew your motor experience would lead us to a conclusion I am unaware of.

You are a good slave, to the process, UFO Shame on anyone who beats a

good slave. So sorry for the mix up and thanks for catching that.

Did I mess it up again? Which direction is correct for this diagram!!!!???

[MadMack]

Ufo,

You pretty much nailed it with that last graphic. I'm sure that will clarify things a great deal for others. You can see the simplicity now? Granted, the concept of how the ramps work is out of the ordinary but once you get it, that's it!

In the interest of clarity I am reposting one of the shunt drawings because I think the first two left it unclear that there is a space between the sides of the magnet and the steel shunts. Not on the pole faces, just the sides. Also there is no need for exotic materials for the shunt, and all three sides and the end(s) can be separate pieces.

@ Boguslaw and tak22,
Yes please, start your own thread about that other motor and best of luck with it. Discouraging comments or slights are not needed here.

Mack

[Stealth]

I just found N52 1/2 square neos for less than $2 each on Applied Magnetics. And also they have the same ones with holes parallel or perpendicular through the magnet. This makes it easier to mount and orient them. Go To APPLIED MAGNETS-Neodymium Magnets-Rare Earth Magnets-Ceramic Magnets-Industrial Magnets-Magnets Wholesale To The Public Good Luck. stealth

[BroMikey]

Ufo,

You pretty much nailed it with that last graphic. I'm sure that will clarify things a great deal for others. You can see the simplicity now? Granted, the concept of how the ramps work is out of the ordinary but once you get it, that's it!

In the interest of clarity I am reposting one of the shunt drawings because I think the first two left it unclear that there is a space between the sides of the magnet and the steel shunts. Not on the pole faces, just the sides. Also there is no need for exotic materials for the shunt, and all three sides and the end(s) can be separate pieces.

@ Boguslaw and tak22,
Yes please, start your own thread about that other motor and best of luck with it. Discouraging comments or slights are not needed here.

Mack

@ Boguslaw and tak22

Yes if you want media attention please stop using this thread. If you are not

sure how to start your own thread someone can do that for you.

@Mack

Thanks again Mack

It makes so more more sense when i see that 3 sides using inexpensive

shunting metals and that there are non metallic spacers. Of course anyone

who has done any of this before would know that. But I never had any

experience. I'll bet you have seen a few motors running in your day but

can't release those details, it's okay I understand.

I am thinking about this all day now, you really went and did it

Mack.

[mkt3920]

Thank you UFOpolitics for the graphic. It cleared up the rotation direction for me with that visual. I now think in terms of the rotor magnet corner which is nearest to the stator magnet being dominant, rather than the face of the rotor magnet. At least that now makes sense to me.

I am still trying to understand the ramp on the repulsion side, thinking that you would want the induction to the ramp from the back of the stator magnet, for attraction, and not from the front as shown. With the ramp on the inbound side then you want attraction there (right?) then shielding to get past the 1/2 way point of the stator magnet face, then occurs the repulsion force from same polarity interaction. Or is the attraction from the steel, without stator magnet induction (shielded), all that is needed here?

Also, THANK YOU MadMack!
Kent

[tachyoncatcher]

Nice Work

Very Nice U.P. I wish I could draw like that. It makes things so much simpler to get the point across. @Stealth, nice find on those neos.

What a great project!

Happy Building,

Randy

Hello to All,

First please allow me to write this part "in general" speaking...

@Cornboy: Hey Old Friend!!...is grrrreat to see you here!!...I know you are a heck of a builder, and would be able to thrust this design all the way into the world. So a very warm welcome to you.

@Mack: Thanks for all your disclosure here...It is enough for Us to build the whole thing with what you have very patiently shared...Anyone with Motoring Skills and Electromagnetism knowledge can be able to make this a reality...I believe we all have more than enough to make it happen...and it would be only our limitations the ones keeping from not achieving this very exciting project.

Thanks again...and please, don't take any crap from anyone, your knowledge is all yours...it is gained through years of experience plus your capability to go straight forward...and wish one day we would meet again.

@BroMikey: Yes there are always gonna be the attacks everywhere we go trying to make a demonstration that Free Energy, Motion Perpetual and the works exists...no matter what the old physics concepts has tried so hard to encapsulate within our brains...there are ALWAYS going to be guys like Us all around...The "Divergents"... that don't accept whatever crap they have shown trying to inculcate/stamp in our heads ...and have done it no matter for how many hundred years...we will be here friend to defeat them all...always!

Now, related to "Technicalities" and the way I see them...

THE WRONG ROTATION SENSE

There was a post from MadMack that I just cited a fragment below containing the very essence from it, and it refers to a graphic (which I added below as well) that you've displayed before, BroMikey:



Mack's insistence above... for you and of course...for All of Us building this motor, to test both possibilities, by flipping rotor is VERY obvious...and strong.

If you look at my settings in all my CAD's is the same as yours...well, it is the VERY WRONG WAY friend!

I have conducted tests in both ways, since I made my rotor that could be reversed...and let me just say this....We were (and whoever else that was ONLY trying this way, as your graphic above) attempting to start a gas engine with the distributor mounted at 180º OFF from Compression TDC....it will NEVER start if we are sending the spark at the Exhaust Stage Timming...and not at compression cycle.

The "Power Stroke" is so clear it will jump in front of your eyes...when we do the right placement of rotor/magnets angles...

I have been writing this post approximately for three hours (including making the CAD below)...just because I consider that we all have ALL the tools required to make this Motor work...is only up to Us to make it happen...on my end, I will try my best to guide anyone who is replicating it...and showing his/her failures or negative issues graphically by whatever means, while I build mine. And I am NOT saying it is simple...we are playing with INVISIBLE FORCES at all times...and our interpretation could render right or wrong results...only severe and repetitive testing with as many different options available will give us the right paths...



The CAD above kind of summarizes all the disclosed material by Mack, including the latest shunting the stators...and only assuming that Repulsion Ramps are identical to Attract Ramps...since He did not refer to any different specifications previously...except to use the back poles from stators as an Option that we should decide if or not to follow...

Any Motor have an Idling Stage-Side (a gain of inertia with weakest or no forces applied,(turned off energy to coils for the case of rotor coils)...some have it very narrow timing...and some wider angles and longer times...As also a Strong side where the attract-repulse forces are executed with the presence of rotor magnets or coils.

The "Modular" repetition generates the continuity of rotation at the right angles distribution, in order to complete the 360º for full-constant rotation.

In the case of this Magnetic Motor, we should consider to space Modules properly, in order NOT to interfere/overlap interactions for each rotor magnet-stator-ramp module with the adjacent ones, which could bring undesired results.

Even though we all have Mack's recommendations of which system (number of modules plus angles apart) has worked for him...

I will now get back to work on this beautiful Machine...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: @BroMikey and anyone who Mack has called/cited his/her posts: Please, DO NOT re edit them as it would change the thread learning direction when a newcomer starts reading...for example you Mikey...You have changed post #61...by re editing text...plus you took off the image that Mack was calling/citing for wrong rotation sense...Don't do it, please!...I am glad I found image in the previous page...I have been reading those two posts for a while...so I noticed the change.

[Ufopolitics]

Thank you UFOpolitics for the graphic. It cleared up the rotation direction for me with that visual. I now think in terms of the rotor magnet corner which is nearest to the stator magnet being dominant, rather than the face of the rotor magnet. At least that now makes sense to me.

Yes, definitively that corner from the rotor magnets is the main check point to be in a perfect 180º ALIGNED passing right at dead center (in my latest graphic I made the 3 point line in green)...then it will serve as well to check your stators ïn line alignment...

See this way the sweeping of counter forces takes place exactly at same timing during rotation. Picture the vectors while you sweep rotor's magnets edge.

I am still trying to understand the ramp on the repulsion side, thinking that you would want the induction to the ramp from the back of the stator magnet, for attraction, and not from the front as shown. With the ramp on the inbound side then you want attraction there (right?) then shielding to get past the 1/2 way point of the stator magnet face, then occurs the repulsion force from same polarity interaction. Or is the attraction from the steel, without stator magnet induction (shielded), all that is needed here?

Also, THANK YOU MadMack!
Kent

Don't think no more about the repulsion side ramps...I am just uploading a video now to show it working...Repulsion Ramp is EXACTLY the same as the Attract side Ramp...on video you will see the one I previously did, in order to get the South Pole induced from Stator (back pole)...but...is absolutely not the way to go friend.

Just watch it accelerating and making the "jump"...and I do not have the time to run it in slow motion...or else to watch the real accel...but eventually I will do it.


Regards


Ufopolitics