Magnet motor revelation

[Turion]

We (Matt Jones and I) recently obtained a CNC machine and a 3d printer. Both of these are at Matt's place. I recently obtained a SECOND 3d printer (the exact same one) and am currently putting it together. I have plans to purchase the same CNC machine also. That way, even though we are on opposite sides of the US, we can reproduce identical products.

The 3d printers can take quite a while to print an object. It'snot like a copy machine.

I may print my rotors, just because I want the slots in them, or I may just cut some the way I always have and use some other method to cut the slot. Not sure yet.

I am using TWO rotors because I am making them out of thinner plastic and using spacers between the two rotors. I need to hold the 1" magnets between the plastic. Rotors cut out of 1" plastic are just too expensive.

[BroMikey]

Yes I think you are right about the hub being okay so i probably
won't be to concerned. Did I hear you right that you are in the process
of doing a 3D print job on a rotor?
I was looking at printers the other day and it said it printed 1" Square
per 3 hours. Is that how slow these things are?

I am also under the impression that because the material is almost
microscopic that parts are stronger with less flaws so cracking
or weak spots are not present. I don't know how true that is but
it does make sense.

I saw that post of John Bedini doing some 3D printing here lately.

The CNC seems like it would be faster and I think the prices are
almost the same? Or is a printer more costly? I see the laser CNC
machines for 3-4 thousand.

Both seem like a step in the right direction so parts can all be made
identically. Like the window motor or SSG and now maybe the MADMACK.
Are you saying that you are printing a MADMACK magnet motor rotor?

Then you said multiple rotors and I couldn't help but think of how in
some cases this might be a way to make it easier to balance the machine.
Once a 2 pole cell is functioning good the next cell could be put on the
second rotor and the third for a 6 pole motor.

Is that what you were thinking?

[Turion]

With a 12 inch rotor, I doubt it matters WHAT the hub is made out of, as long as it isn't too BIG. The stainless one you found would probably cause some issues if it was made out of steel for sure. With a smaller build, say four or five inches, a small hub MIGHT cause some problems. If you want to know for sure, set your magnet on a flat surface and move a very small piece of steel toward it. See how close you can get before the magnetic field attracts the steel.

I've attached a rather crude drawing of what I am building for my rotor setup. Thanks to those who have come up with similar ideas and posted them here. I wanted to take it just a step farther. I will actually have two larger rotors with the rotor magnet BETWEEN them on a third small rotor. It gives me the thickness of rotor I want both for the "hub", (which is nothing more than a bearing pressed into each rotor with a spacer between them) and the outside edges which will be held apart by spacers, and where I want basically an "axel" to rotate my wheel containing the magnet. The "slot" in the top and bottom rotor allow me to move the "magnet wheel" in and out from center, and still gives the ability to rotate the "magnet wheel, to adjust its angle of attraction depending on the holes I have drilled around the circumference of the magnet wheel to align with the slot. As you can see from the drawing, the LARGER the magnet wheel, the more precise you can make your adjustments to angle the magnet,

I am still working on getting my 3d printer put together to make some of the parts I need, so it will be a while, but I haven't given up on this project. It may take me a while just to get the rotors made the way I want them, although TAP plastics has them all pre cut in different sizes and thicknesses. I may just have to grit my teeth and order them and worry about the damage to my wallet later.

[BroMikey]

Or, if you want to doit the way YOU did it without all the work and you have a few bucks.
Hub 1 2" Shaft Diameter with Keyway Meyer or Buyer Salt Spreader 36152 0202800 | eBay


Dave

Hey Dave
I am going over past posts and I missed this one thanks. I looked
all over for one of those and couldn't find one. My rotor is 11.7" dia
so do you think that hub should be made out of stainless??

I thought I needed Stainless like the hard drive bearings and hubs are.

It shouldn't effect your rotor being so much larger dia. But
thanks, I been wanting to see one of these and been looking at other
parts lately.

Yeah I like it already, I'll get 2.

Hey I found a stainless hub but I would need to drill it and tap.

12 x 1 2" w Hub Stainless Meat Grinder Mincer Plate Disc Screen | eBay

[BroMikey]

If you haven't seen this video posted on O.U., you should

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video

]

Yes I saw this last month because I look every week for the latest
magnet motor info. I should have posted it then. The ball is hitting
the long tapered piece of metal and ramping from the pointed end
on up toward the ever widening section of the cut.

He needs to make it a "Y" shape so when it gets to the other end
it will release and keep on going. I just had to say that.
This gives me an opportunity to share my building progress.

I had to send 1 bearing back and send for a new one. Then another
part for tapping was wrong so I ordered again. It takes time to tool
up. Next I am sending for a cobalt drill bit and a cobalt M8 tap to
thread a stainless steel. My 1500 watt ultrasonic welder works great
for inserting brass nuts into plastic, well they're not nuts but they act
as nuts. They are called inserts.

I just got a perfect piece of lexan 1/2" last week for making mounts
and the inserts are close together so I didn't want a crack so using
the bullet proof lexan should solve the potential problem as seen with
acrylic.

I got my 40mm number M8 beveled brass machine screws. I still need
to decide on a platform other than wood so maybe I'll stick one of my
electric stoves out in the yard to melt a nice block out of a pile of
thick chucked of HDPE.

I also have the grain oriented transformer type metal but first I'll
do some forks out of cold roll again. I can't wait to get this setup
to where the magnets will cancel being only 90 thousandths clearance
from the stators. Then the stator magnet will be adjustable and I will
be having a ball.

I did some tests on my old setup that had stators pointed in opposite
directions with the rotor magnets on a 45. You reach a point where it
becomes a trade off for redirecting magnetic energy and drag or losses
as you all well know. The thing I saw was by angling the attraction
stator into the rotor angle I could draw the in coming rotor magnet
from a much further distance but to much makes it harder for the rotor
magnet to pass by easily.

Then the same thing on the repulsion side only stator is angled away
from the in coming rotor magnet as the back side of the repulsion side
stator is attraction nearest the rotor magnet and draws the rotor
magnet in just before cancellation occurs.

My 1/2" X 1" magnets are very powerful N42 and the rotor magnets
are 1/2" X 1/2" N52.

Having a blast because it makes sense where MOST other magnet
experiments did not do much of anything.

I am going to follow the steps as laid out by MADMACK. I hope he
made it out the other side of the surgery room without to many
crash and burn, bumps and bruises.

After the 1st of the year will be better for me anyway.

[Turion]

Video #1

If you haven't seen this video posted on O.U., you should

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video

[BroMikey]

Here is another angle of view for stator adjustments, included
is an attraction ramp. The ramp mounts are not yet shown.

[BroMikey]

Excellent description Dave

You probably said that before but I must have missed it.

Here is what's up on my adjusters. As you can see cancellation center
will never be properly done in Fig B.

[Turion]

I bolted a flat metal strap to the back end of my "cheese grater" that has a hinge at one end so it can pivot toward the plastic rotor. It swings in and out. As you said, you have to move it in very slowly, but by stopping the grinder quite often, I can see when it is making contact all the way around the outside of the rotor. As soon as it is, I know the rotor is "round" and have a sanding pad I put in its place to "smooth" things out completely. Then I'm done.


Or, if you want to doit the way YOU did it without all the work and you have a few bucks.
Hub 1 2" Shaft Diameter with Keyway Meyer or Buyer Salt Spreader 36152 0202800 | eBay


Dave

[BroMikey]

Hi Dave
Great pointers. Could you elaborate on how you mounted the cheese
grater on the outer edge of the wheel? I my case I used the grinder
on the perimeter of the rough cut to lower high spots then keep moving
the grinder in till done.

In my case the shaft is bolted down with 2 six dollar bearings very securely
and when grinding this plastic almost an inch thick I must move so slow
at first.

Your idea using the grinder (I have one of those big dogs also) appealed
to me except I couldn't figure an easy holder for the cutter.

I already had the 12" x .8" 4 pound rotor spun up in my giant drill press
but everytime I tried to shave the edge all I got was hopping. I figured
I would need a holder of some kind.

Also in the above diagram you will note the added complications of
slotted adjustable mounts. It is very important that you make all
brackets adjustable, this is not so easy. It doesn't cost anymore
other than time and the exercise of the grey matter, but I have
found that to eliminate losses and optimize available forces it
becomes a paramount issue.

I can not explain the thrill I am getting over this project, I will be doing
a video sometime in the next month because my parts are coming in
slowly and time is spread thin.

But make no mistake, there are no short cuts to balancing this
cancellation magnet motor. If you adjust the stator magnet on the
repulsion side differently that the stator magnet on the attraction side
you will need to move the entire stator assembly over to achieve
cancellation as the angle of the forces will increase or decrease
the center line.

I have gotten cancellation at many different settings with stator magnets
angled opposite each other to increase the attraction ramping and still
maintain the null at the cross over centerline of 180 degrees.

I also use a 12" set of digital calipers to adjust my rotor magnets for
ensuring precision. You can't use a set of feeler gauges to set stator
to rotor magnet clearances if your rotor is of by 30 thousandths.

You will have to measure down to a few thousandths, say + or - .005?

If you are 20 thousandths out all of the time you will never make a
full motor fly. Besides it ain't that hard to do things right if you are
serious about learning this motor.

Close tolerances and all magnets adjustable please or continue to play
with the beginner stage.

Talk to us Turion, you are someone who has put his time into this kind
of building project for years. Thanks for the grinder idea.

[Turion]

Just a few tips for those of you trying to build this on the cheap.

I rough cut my rotor with ANY kind of jig saw, scroll saw, band saw I can get my hands on out of 3/4 inch plastic. (I actually have all three) You can cut a smaller circle to go above the rotor and another one to go below the rotor to give it as much "thickness" as you can get. Glue or screw these in place so they will not ever be removed. Thickness adds stability. I drill the center hole through all three at the same time, and press a bearing into the center of the rotor. If you use TWO bearings...one in the top piece and one in the bottom, you REALLY have a stable rotor.

The hole in the center of the bearing is the same size as the shaft on my grinder. I remove the grinding wheel, put a nut and washer on the shaft, the rotor, and another nut and washer. Now I can spin the rough cut rotor at high speed on my grinder. I use this tool:

http://www.lewiscontractorsales.com/...FYdgfgod2LgAZw

to "true" the outside edge of the rotor down to the diameter I want while it is spinning at high speed.

Now I use a THREADED shaft. I find the area on the shaft where I want the rotor to turn. I fill in the threads there with JB weld where the bearings will make contact with the shaft. Then I slide the rotor down the shaft to that spot. I clean any excess JB weld off the bearing, so it doesn't harden on the bearing and keep it from turning properly. Then I put washers and nuts on each side of the rotor and wait for the JB weld to harden and "Lock" the rotor onto the shaft. Done.

I have been making my rotors for other projects this way for YEARS and it works extremely well. I usually only use One bearing and press it into my rotor, but some folks like overkill. This method is definitely overkill as far as stability is concerned. If you don't want to use the JB weld, put a spacer between the two bearings so that you can tighten the two outside nuts as tight as you want without pushing the bearing out of the the rotor. That will also work.
Dave

[BroMikey]

Building a magnet motor with adjustable mounts.

Here is my first step toward adjustable stator mounts.

[mikrovolt]

Someone mentioned need for a few more fabrication building videos.

author states:
Dual Axial Flux Alternator. This is a prototype ELEMAN MAGNET MOTOR, OverUnity is iT or Not... Motor Generator or a Toy...This is a Homemade "ELEMAN" Magnetic Motor Self Running or Quantum harmonic Oscillator VS Bedini SSG MOTOR the same "project" that runs from one battery to charge a second battery. Test with CSB 12V 7.2Ah UPS battery Sealed Lead Acid rechargeable battery. Fact or Fake ? Comments are Always Welcome !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=mq98r-rdayo

[BroMikey]

Thanks Ramset

Nice ramp.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTcw6NPn9BQ#t=151[/VIDEO]

[RAMSET]

hope all is well

Mack
please send out a word on your health and well being.

in the mean time here is a man playing with tapers and attraction in a very
simple perhaps similar way ??.

youtube magnet rolling on narrow triangle metal a simple magnet ramp - Bing video

I found this originally here At Mark Dansie's site
Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg to form multi-billion-dollar clean energy fund - Revolution-Green

respectfully

Chet K