Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

I am a born skeptic.

"Trust everyone, but always cut the cards."

So basically, trust NO ONE.


So it becomes VERY CLEAR that my two rotor magnets are NOT of the same strength. Very, VERY clear.


Two Magnet Rotor 2 - YouTube

Dave

So you have four identical magnets and you think this is the

problem? From here is harder to explain one's self and

tougher to ask questions. It is good for YOU to be a skeptic because

of your special gentle traits. Everyone must do what is needed in life

to keep balance. We all learn the best way to proceed as we gain

experience.


The attraction side VS repulsion should not be causing one side to

be non functional. I say non-functional because the side that does

not give the effective response we are looking for. I just got a larger

set of magnets tonight that is not the set I just got in the mail.


Still no hole in these either. I have a ton of magnets that are slightly

arc shaped for the large pancake motors. I have 4 that stack one

on top of the other and are a matched set as far as I can tell.


Now one thing rolling around in the noodle. The discussion

we have been having about balancing magnets is as follows.

This is for me.

1. Move magnets or adjust magnets on some sort of adjustment

thread. (Well I see you did that) Still it is out?

2. put more or less iron on the backside of the stator magnets to
even up the small differences.

Do you understand that idea? I picture this like putting a tiny set
of thin washers all around the back of a magnet to make it stronger.
But only a tiny bit stronger.

This is all I have so far on the subject of "tuning a magnet"

Using this idea will keep us from searching high and low for perfectly

equal in strength magnets. I think this should be done.

Which ever magnet you think is weaker add a tiny bit of iron to the

backside for tuning.

Nice work Dave, you beat us all to the draw.

[Turion]

No, I do NOT have four identical magnets. One of my rotor magnets is stronger than the other one.

As for the stator magnets, don't worry too much about them. It really does NOT matter if anything is equal except the two rotor magnets. They need to be as close to equal as possible. If they are not, when they switch positions (180 degrees) you don't get the same reaction with the stator magnets, and you need that.

The two stator magnets do NOT have to be the same as the rotor magnets (not even CLOSE)

They really don't have to be equal to each other. (close will make it easier to balance though)

They could be stronger magnets than the rotor magnets or weaker magnets than the rotor magnets, and possibly even a different KIND of magnet than the rotor as long as they are CLOSE enough to each other in strength that you can adjust the distance (gap) to the rotor and balance the setup. You have to be able to move ONE of the two stator magnets in and out and balance the setup. If it is a LOT weaker than the other one, you have a problem, but if it is STRONGER than the other one, you just move it farther away. At least that's the way looks to me. Others may disagree.

And I DID read what was said about "Tuning" the magnets, but first I will go through all the ones I have to see if I can find two that are closer in strength.

Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

Dave

[kenssurplus]

Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

Dave

Hi Dave, possibly an easier and more accurate way to do this would be to lay the paperclip on a wood only board or table (no hidden nails or screws) and then measure the distance away that the Neomag will just start to lift one end. Check with all your Neomags and find the closest two. It might be that you will need to make a sliding scale with a very fine gradient ruler or micrometer. Hope this helps some.

[Turion]

Plan

Yep, that's probably a better plan. Will give it a try tomorrow.

Dave

[Mario]

Dave, I may have missed it, but do the stator magnets not have to be rotated by 30 degrees also? Great to see you're working on it already.

Mario

[shylo]

Nice work Dave, I was just wondering , when the ramp is placed next to the stator magnet as you showed ,do you think that the stator magnets field changes? Meaning now part of it's field is traveling through the ramp?
So in order to maintain balance you will have to put a ramp at the other side as well.
Mack did say balance is crucial, try your method for finding strength , then repeat with the ramp beside your magnet, not sure if it will make a difference or not.
Just throwing out idea's
Thanks artv

[tachyoncatcher]

No/Maybe

Dave, I may have missed it, but do the stator magnets not have to be rotated by 30 degrees also? Great to see you're working on it already.

Mario

Hi Mario,
Check Post #50.

[Mario]

Thanks, missed that

Mario

[Turion]

Stator Magnets

Stator magnets are aligned through the center axis. He said that in a couple different places.

Yes, the ramps change things and you need BOTH at the same time. But I will wait until I have it balanced first. Sometime TODAY I hope.

Dave

[lorinrandone]

Stator magnets are aligned through the center axis. He said that in a couple different places.

Yes, the ramps change things and you need BOTH at the same time. But I will wait until I have it balanced first. Sometime TODAY I hope.

Dave

stator magnets vibrate,I think. It is totally excluded this possibility. Forgive me for this opinion

[Ufopolitics]

According to all 'data' rendered here...

Hello to All,

Well, putting together all the data and 'hints' posted by MadMack here...I believe the best arrangement would be building ramps which could flip magnetic polarity when rotor magnets swing by in a "Pre" and "Post" Stages...So on the following drawings I use advantage of the Stator Magnets "Neutral" Plane...some would call it Bloch Wall, Domain Walls or like TheoriaAphopasis (Ken Wheeler) would call it "Dielectric Plane" or "Counter Space"...I particularly like the last two better...but getting to the point, this is the part of the magnet embodiment which manifests almost no magnetic influence from either poles to ferromagnetic materials.

If you get a Neo Cylinder, and pass an iron washer (after a lot of effort, I know) reaching that center "Equator Line", would notice the washer is no longer attracted to either pole, but feel almost in a 'Gravitational' state. And this is the idea where to set the ramps when not influenced by the Rotor Magnets, with the help, of course from springs assisting Ramp to maintain in that center plane. The Pivot axis is shown on diagrams below.

[IMG][/IMG]

The way to build this Ramps is just an arc segment cut from an iron tubing, thick enough to drill the small swinging shaft hole through its thickness. Then drilling and filing the holes where magnets would go through.

Stators are static...Ramps pivots.

I don't believe we need to go in details like weighting the same, pivoting axis at exact distances for each ramps...same spring tensions as springs I consider better of stainless not to interfere with magnetism influence...other words...identical ramp pieces as identical, measured stator magnets.

Supposedly, before adding the ramps...Rotor magnets and stators MUST BE BALANCED, meaning they will not tend to stick at their Max point between Attract-Repulse Alignment at 180º...but freely move, pass by, meaning they are equally cancelling opposite forces.

Then We can see the switching Ramps in action below:

[IMG][/IMG]

FIG 1 Rotor is in a Neutral Point (in more than two poles there would not be a Neutral Point, so only way to stop motor would be by playing with ramps, moving them opposite than they do thrusting rotation)
So we slowly push rotor in rotation sense...until Ramp end closer to rotor magnets starts getting attracted and pivots toward rotor magnets (FIG 2), However, by doing this angle movement it enters the North Stator Poles, becoming a North at the ends (from the book and section plus pictures that Mack gave Us, even though I knew all this, since it is part of my coming material, it is called "Magnetic Redirection") So, by both Ramps ends becoming North will assist in the repulsion stage throwing rotor towards max alignment point (FIG 3) Now here, since 'supposedly' we all have a very well balanced rotor and whole set up...that additional repulsion pushing force done by ramps will "unbalance" our work in the right direction... and ramps by the spring action would return to Neutral Position...when rotor passes max alignment point ramps pivot the opposite way by iron on other side being attracted by rotor magnets (FIG 4)...ramps enter the opposite stator polarity (South in this case) adding an attraction force to our rotor, following rotation sense.

Now a Two Pole Motor will hardly be a good motor, like Mack mentioned...but will do help a lot to understand this main principle...

Ramps could be build the way you please...like just switching to one polarity in order to unbalance our balanced rotor towards rotation and then returning to "neutral iron" for next pole approaching attraction.

It would be better if ramps have more iron mass at their ends...so just drilling small holes in the "in-between" areas or grinding away some would do...or just adding some extra iron and keep balancing them...

The precision required?...Well, figure out you are working for ROLEX in Switzerland...building one of this fine pieces of Art...


Am I closer now MadMack?


Thank you all and I hope one way or the other at least one of Us could build this Motion Perpetual Machine...just to F*CK the Establishment...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: FIG 4 is marked as FIG 2 on Right Bottom of sequence, my bad, replaced text copied but not Fig #, sorry.

Springs are not shown here, but figure they need to be on both ways of ramp, and further enough from pivot point...could be either push or pull springs.

Stator Magnets need to be mounted in a way that ramp could move freely on its angles, preferably from their back ends and no brackets in front.

Is understood that in more number of poles, say Four...Pairs of Ramps set at 180º would do South while the other set would be at North operation...just like in an electric motor we have N-S-N-S adjacent Stators in the casing.

[RUE]

No, I do NOT have four identical magnets. One of my rotor magnets is stronger than the other one.

As for the stator magnets, don't worry too much about them. It really does NOT matter if anything is equal except the two rotor magnets. They need to be as close to equal as possible. If they are not, when they switch positions (180 degrees) you don't get the same reaction with the stator magnets, and you need that.

The two stator magnets do NOT have to be the same as the rotor magnets (not even CLOSE)

They really don't have to be equal to each other. (close will make it easier to balance though)

They could be stronger magnets than the rotor magnets or weaker magnets than the rotor magnets, and possibly even a different KIND of magnet than the rotor as long as they are CLOSE enough to each other in strength that you can adjust the distance (gap) to the rotor and balance the setup. You have to be able to move ONE of the two stator magnets in and out and balance the setup. If it is a LOT weaker than the other one, you have a problem, but if it is STRONGER than the other one, you just move it farther away. At least that's the way looks to me. Others may disagree.

And I DID read what was said about "Tuning" the magnets, but first I will go through all the ones I have to see if I can find two that are closer in strength.

Another way to measure strength of your magnet is to use needles or paperclips. Put a paperclip or a needle on your magnet and attach another paperclip or needle to it magnetically. See how many you can string together. Count them. Now find a magnet that will only let you string together that same number. Less, it's not as strong...more, it is stronger. Hard to do this with neos though. They yank the paperclips all over the place. Might want to attach a long bolt to the neo, and then begin attaching paperclips to the bolt.

Dave

If You Have a clamp meter that reads dc amps then it will read the magnetic current of your magnets as dc amps and it does vary from magnet to magnet.

[Turion]

Rue,
Thanks for that info. I tried it and got readings on all my magnets. When I went to put the meter away, right there in the back of the drawer was my gauss meter. I have been looking for it for months. So now I will confirm readings with it before I try to balance things tomorrow.

Dave

[BroMikey]

Hey UFO

That is such a wonderful program you work for graphics that it

makes me want to stand up and shout

I am glad to have you on my team.

I had not thought of that idea. Good thinkin.

I guess as long as we keep the entire(Ramp) arm and magnet inside

of about a 40 degree area of the circle. This makes sense when we hear

Mack talk ramps and shunts and also the magnetic tuning by putting

some iron behind the magnet. From what i understand the field spreads

out with the ramps nearby or in this case ATTACHED yes attached.

It might be wrong but it is a beautiful picture.
:

[BroMikey]

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''

right there in the back of the drawer was my gauss meter. I have been looking for it for months. So now I will confirm readings with it before I try to balance things tomorrow.

Dave

I have a bearing and platform. Plenty of magnets. I need to cut a stator

ring and mount things up near the rotor. I thought to use cutting

block board but that stuff warps like garbage and I won't sacrifice my

1" sheets of acrylic for a mere test, so I guess it is my chance to

use up some of my choice hard wood saved from old fine head boards

from master beds. Something decent. Not to expensive YET!!

As far as balancing magnets for comparable strengths I thought to

use a pendulum. Or a string with a paper clip on it and then bring

the magnet close and see how many inches the clip swings toward

the magnet. Then put another identical magnet in the same place

marked for so many inches where the last magnet was and see

if the clip is pulled more or less. All measured in mm or 1/16th of

an inch. I liked your idea using a succession of clips one behind the

other to see how many clips it will pick up and then after I thought

about it enough I considered it important to use the exact same

clips in the same order as no two clips are alike.

Your meter should be the best I would think.