Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

In Bedini's drawing the the shunt is the part of the ramp where the iron connects part of one pole to the other pole of the stator magnet.

Rake means inclination.

Mario

Thanks Mario

I thought so but really wasn't sure how investigators look at

these words. I did some searching on the terminology and I

find the word ramp and that is all. This must be acquired from

others who have followed these studies.

And on the rake? I thought that meant the area the ramp sort

of moved when adjusted but still if it is a rake/ inclination

I'll have to ponder that idea a while

Thanks for all of your past help as well.

[Ufopolitics]

Another read "between the lines"...

Hello again,


Something else I have noticed is highlighted by underlining the whole sentence and in bold letters the "essence" below...on post from MadMack:

If you decide to pursue this, may I suggest a two pole rig to start with? A 1” thick x 12” long flat with rectangular cross section and a shaft at dead center might make a good rotor to experiment with. One cube magnet each end on the center line, same polarity out. Now might be a good time to review the part in my first post about the rotor magnets and torque. Balance the rotor like you would a lawn mower blade. Then you could mount this parallel to another flat stock, say about 20” square, with two long stator magnets attached to it, 180 degrees and 12+” apart, N-S facing each other. With a rig like that you could try different clearances and magnet positions, etc. The first goal to achieve would be a symmetrical cancellation of magnetic drag. Balance the push and pull and get the rotor to spin past the stator magnets without magnetic drag, and without using any iron ramps.

On a side note, K&J Magnetics carries N52 neos, 1/2” cubes as well as 1/2” x 1/2” x 1” long ones, magnetized through their length. They even have the cubes with a mounting hole through their center that will accept a long machine screw if you dress the threads a little bit.

Regards,
Mack

Dissecting above underlined sentences...we can see Mack suggest "LONG STATOR MAGNETS" consisting of 1/2X1/2 X 1 while using for Rotor the first mentioned or 1/2" Cubes (1/2X1/2X1/2).

By doing this, the Stators Magnetic Fields are MUCH STRONGER (Actually TWICE here) than Rotor Fields...And the result is that balancing a weaker Rotor Magnetic Fields between two stronger AND static Magnetic Fields would be MUCH EASIER TO BALANCE than using identical magnets everywhere.

At the same token, a stronger Stator Field would Induce stronger polarized influence into the iron based accelerating Ramps.

IMO if we only have the same kind of magnets and the doubled longer size is N/A...Then we could use two of the same type for the stators to increase the static field strength.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[mkt3920]

Long Magnets

The long magnets at K&J are N42 and have nearly the exact same "pull force" as the N52 cube magnets sold there, which seems to keep with the "balance" Mack described. My thoughts were that the long stator magnets would be better for the pivoting ramps, as he stated the pivoting allowed him to adjust the rotors speed, or stop (neutral) it, or reverse it.

I also wonder if the ramps might be horizontal, placed such that they pivot across the top side of the long stator magnet (and likewise over the top of rotor magnets). I am not sure how else the rotor could be reversed, via ramp pivot, unless the ramp could be moved (near or touching) to the rear of stator magnets, yet still effect (be close to) the rotor magnets.
Kent

(parts are in, now building)

[lorinrandone]

hi everyone
thanks to the ability Ufo design,Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fxi...ature=youtu.be you have a system to effectively ramp designed by drawings UFO master. Is still working, but ...... patience.

Ufo si esta gente necesita mas detalles, hazme el oficio de traductor por favor. No controlo muy bien el ingles.

[Ufopolitics]

hi everyone
thanks to the ability Ufo design,Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fxi...ature=youtu.be you have a system to effectively ramp designed by drawings UFO master. Is still working, but ...... patience.

Ufo si esta gente necesita mas detalles, hazme el oficio de traductor por favor. No controlo muy bien el ingles.

Excelente Cristian!

Si, claro que te traduzco, yo domino ambos idiomas bastante bien.

Cristian, si pudieses hacer las Rampas un poco más anchas, de ese mismo grosor... con el objetivo de que el hueco que veo has hecho...sea más grande al punto que pueda insertarse dentro de el polo frontal del estator, pero claro, luego de hacerles el hueco central y vertical marcado en el gráfico que tienes mío, para el eje de ajuste y acercamiento-alejamiento (puede ser un tornillo fino y largo con tuercas para apretar la rampa y otras dos para montarla fijamente a la base) de ajuste vertical que controla el ángulo de acercamiento fijamente y bien apretadas.

No necesitas rotarlo tán rápido...trata de mantener una velocidad normal pero constante para que se observe la diferencia en la aceleración...aunque en este video se nota claramente y aún mejor en los últimos minutos.

También respecto al posicionamiento de tu cámara...trata de ponerla un poco más alta (encima de tu cabeza y apuntando hacia abajo) para tener una vista completa de todo el motor y los ángulos que estás moviendo las rampas.

Muy buen trabajo!, veo que has construido otro rotor con los ángulos correctos.


Felicidades!


Ufopolítica (Ufopolitics in Spanish)


If anyone needs any translation...


Check with Google...


Just kidding...ask me and I will...not tonight though...am out


We all can see the Ramps DO create an observable acceleration on his video...I recommended that he don't spin it that fast...although at the end minutes is very well noticed. As well as some camera positioning so we could see the whole thing working.

He is still balancing the Main Modules...

[BroMikey]

Let me add to what was said so we can be very, very specific.

Rake: In the case of this motor, the rake of the ramp is not only the angle of the ramp, but the distance of each end from the rotor. '''''''''''''''''''''''


I hope that makes sense.


"shunt" is the piece of metal on the ramp or PART of the ramp that comes between the magnet attached to the ramp and the rotor magnet. It diverts the flux


This is OUT OF BALANCE with the other side because of the shunt on the repulsion side. The repulsion side is now in attraction because of the angle of the relationship between the magnets, but that attraction is SHUNTED.

Hope this makes sense.

Dave

Sure it does, I just needed to hear this addressed in a sentence structure

that keeps me on the entire subject long enough to get a handle on things.

@Ufo and Turion

Thanks for all of the pointed answers to MY questions. I have re-read this

many times and still I am learning what it all means.

Also the video with the clear wheel just posted is doing something

like mine was when I brought the ramp near the repulsion stator magnet.

The ramps clearly prolong run-time after spin up.

Another thing was that I am now playing with the other side UFO

on the repulsion pole after TDC I have been getting the rotor

magnet to travel further away from it's pole by using a piece of metal

right after at multiple angles to find the best. It works over there too.

Also on the "SHUNT" I have been doing that without thinking about

what the terms are. I have been blocking the magnet with the ramp

getting the ramp closer to the rotor and I put a 1/4" lip there by bending

my test plate ramp. This also improved things.

Between YOU DAVE and UFO those of us who are not sure about

specifics will surely not be left out in wonderland. This thread is amazing.

UFO is reading between the lines about Macks statements are valuable

facts keeping us all thinking. So much knowledge is available to us

with all of us working on the MAGNET MOTOR REVELATION.

I will be the first to tell you if I don't understand but so far it looks

like my questions have all been answered in flying colors.

The gaps are too wide. Yes true and I am still working on balancing

this wheel better with 1/4" gaps. My magnets are weak compared to neo's.

Yet I am learning all of the same things.

[BroMikey]

Updated based on testing data. I will post the revision as

to what I am seeing that the ramps/w/shunting need to be

to make a positive rotation.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkdnC6qsbQ[/VIDEO]

[BroMikey]

This is how my ramp and shunt works best to accelerate the rotor

magnet on the incoming induction ramp (left) all of the way over

and out of the gate (right) where the rotor magnet is allowed to

freely and gradually disengage itself and continue on the way.

[lorinrandone]

Updated based on testing data. I will post the revision as

to what I am seeing that the ramps/w/shunting need to be

to make a positive rotation.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkdnC6qsbQ[/VIDEO]

Hola BroMikey
-Las rampas mas largas, te hace falta.
-Utilisa lo que ha recomendado Grumaj- chapas de particula orientada(transformador)
- Nunca utilise madera para motores magneticos, porque por la estructura interna, la madera vibra.
-Utilise rodamientos pequeños para disminuir la influencia de campo magnetico sobre el metal
Estas son algunas recomendaciones con su permiso.
Un saludo. cristian alba

[BroMikey]

Hola BroMikey
-Las rampas mas largas, te hace falta.
-Utilisa lo que ha recomendado Grumaj- chapas de particula orientada(transformador)
- Nunca utilise madera para motores magneticos, porque por la estructura interna, la madera vibra.
-Utilise rodamientos pequeños para disminuir la influencia de campo magnetico sobre el metal
Estas son algunas recomendaciones con su permiso.
Un saludo. cristian alba

Hola
Gracias mucho por su video y para la instrucción de utilizar el metal especial como transformadores en las rampas.
Mi próximo será mejor, espero.
Muy bonito SIR trabajo.

[lorinrandone]

Excelente Cristian!

Si, claro que te traduzco, yo domino ambos idiomas bastante bien.

Cristian, si pudieses hacer las Rampas un poco más anchas, de ese mismo grosor... con el objetivo de que el hueco que veo has hecho...sea más grande al punto que pueda insertarse dentro de el polo frontal del estator, pero claro, luego de hacerles el hueco central y vertical marcado en el gráfico que tienes mío, para el eje de ajuste y acercamiento-alejamiento (puede ser un tornillo fino y largo con tuercas para apretar la rampa y otras dos para montarla fijamente a la base) de ajuste vertical que controla el ángulo de acercamiento fijamente y bien apretadas.

No necesitas rotarlo tán rápido...trata de mantener una velocidad normal pero constante para que se observe la diferencia en la aceleración...aunque en este video se nota claramente y aún mejor en los últimos minutos.

También respecto al posicionamiento de tu cámara...trata de ponerla un poco más alta (encima de tu cabeza y apuntando hacia abajo) para tener una vista completa de todo el motor y los ángulos que estás moviendo las rampas.

Muy buen trabajo!, veo que has construido otro rotor con los ángulos correctos.


Felicidades!


Ufopolítica (Ufopolitics in Spanish)


If anyone needs any translation...


Check with Google...


Just kidding...ask me and I will...not tonight though...am out


We all can see the Ramps DO create an observable acceleration on his video...I recommended that he don't spin it that fast...although at the end minutes is very well noticed. As well as some camera positioning so we could see the whole thing working.

He is still balancing the Main Modules...

Un gran saludo Ufo. Me perdone usted la tardanza pero estube un poco ocupado esta mañana.
Te agradezgo mucho por las observaciones y por las recomendaciones. Si es verdad, la grabacion del video ha sido fatal(no tengo tripode por la camara),pero tenia prisa de darte la gracia por tu diseño de la rampa y por informaros que no te equivocaste cuando lo pensaste de este modo. Lo demas estoy corregiendo de nuevo los angulos del rotor(a salido con errores) y despues probarle de nuevo.
Que tenga usted bon dia.
cristian.

[Ufopolitics]

My opinion about your set up

Updated based on testing data. I will post the revision as

to what I am seeing that the ramps/w/shunting need to be

to make a positive rotation.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkdnC6qsbQ[/VIDEO]

Hello BroMikey,

My friend, there are basically some essential things here that you must understand in order to approach success...

First, your magnets are too thin, therefore, too weak related to the size of your wood rotor diameter. Plus they are ceramic. I would reduce either the rotor diameter and close the gap even more...or use stronger magnets, which is the easier and faster way.

Second, your ramps are also too thin...they are just a lamination!...You must have a thicker iron mass to house a stronger field induction AND from a stronger magnet, therefore making a much bigger difference.

Third, you are placing the ramps through that "L" shape in between both poles of your thin magnets...so the induction it takes place is almost neutral or zero...if you are getting some deviation there is just due to iron and magnet attraction...but not due to magnetic field distortion/expansion from induction.

Please do not get disappointed by my comments, I just wanna see a big smile once you've gotten it perfect and going very strong...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[lorinrandone]

Hola
Gracias mucho por su video y para la instrucción de utilizar el metal especial como transformadores en las rampas.
Mi próximo será mejor, espero.
Muy bonito SIR trabajo.

Hello again.
BroMakey thanks for appreciating the video. As I have seen my videos has changed a little the inertia thread. This is good to move things forward.
On the other hand, you should not answer in Spanish. I do not control the writing but I understand English very well.
Regards. cristia alba

[Ufopolitics]

RAMPS Part 1...based on MadMack's and other Members Posts

Hello to All,

I have a method to try first to interpret every data that has given very carefully...reading in between lines and comparing answers...then apply it first through my CAD Designs...I could, in the mean time start getting all stuff I need...but do not actually start building til I am convinced what am gonna do is gonna work fine or at least show good results...My first designs could be way off...like it has happened here...but as I keep "digesting" all data they 'normally' get better and make more sense.

Related to the Ramps designs and MadMack's descriptions as his answers to other members...we could put together a more advanced model...:

Please allow me to show you a few posts where we could gather the right info about the more advanced (working) model:

Mad Mack first Post:

The ramps pivot at their center lines. This provides a means to throttle, stop, or reverse the motor rotation...

The pivot in my ramps do not contribute any additional force or movement to the rotor. The power developed is provided by the rake of the ramp in relation to the rotor magnet (rate of change over distance or time). If the ramp can pivot in either direction the rake can be altered, thus decreasing the rate of change and throttling down the output. The ramp pivoting is a mechanically operated mechanism, the gas pedal. If the rake of the ramp is reversed it acts as a brake. If the rake is neutral, the motor stops...

Hi guys,

Chet, the ramps in the concept picture you posted have two problems. They are way too long so the rate of change is very little, which kills the torque. The second problem, which we haven't touched upon yet, is that each ramp in that picture connects two stator magnets. You have to take magnetic induction in the ramps into account. Having a stator magnet touching at each end of the ramp turns the ramp into a bar magnet with strong NS poles, and interferes with things. We want the ramp close to or touching only one magnet at the end of the ramp...

Hi All, If I understand Mack's method correctly, I believe the pivoting ramps are only moved to control speed (prevent runaway accel), and to shut down or turn off the motor. I don't think that they are free to move around during operation.

As usual, What do I know? I am not the one sharing the knowledge of a working device here.

Hi guys,

Shylo # 67. The ramps do not pivot every time a rotor magnet passes. See post #74 by kenssurplus, that is the correct interpretation.

Kenssurplus #74. Correct.

...

And here...between MadMack's first Post and this one below...I have come up with the CAD I will be showing further on...

For advanced consideration. (fig 41)
It can also be seen that a pole of a magnet can be directed to the end of shaped iron, and when redirected in this manner will lose some of it's strength. Give this one some extra thought along with the outer pole of the stator magnets. You don't have to take advantage of this, unless you want to.

Mack

And so I do want to take advantage of the Outer Stators Magnetic Polarizations...And by doing it this way we will not be affecting, nor weakening the Front Stators Magnetic Poles PLUS not altering our Original Balancing...but just "tuning" the rear poles.

Believe me...I have gone through several different Ramps Shapes, trying to create a Sequential Flow by connecting Stator/Ramp>>Stator/Ramp...to be able to accomplish what is stated on the first post...using the Ramps as Forwarding (CW), Neutral/Stop Rotor...and Reversing Rotation (CCW)...While at different angles this Ramps will do "Throttle" speeds in either directions just like a "Gas Pedal"...

Of course, I am using some advanced acquired knowledge from magnetic fields geometries which you will not find in a Classic Book about Electromagnetism...

[IMG][/IMG]

On this CAD above am showing at 12 O'Clock Ramp (Above R1) the main 'construction circles' I have utilized to lay down the main shape. And in this positioning of Ramps the Rotor is in Neutral.

What am doing is "Tilting" just the rear Magnetic Fields from each Stator Independently...The pivot point is exactly at the center end of the outer poles, and I rather use an iron screw for this and NOT a non ferromagnetic material Screw or Shaft to pivot ramp...The pivoting cylinder mass housing the shaft should be as wide as the Magnet pole size in 3D, meaning height, depth and width.

EXAMPLE GIVEN: On this Six Pole Motor by only tilting Three alternated Ramps by 120º apart...of the same type of pole...and we will see a gain in speed...Example: tilting the North Outer Poles just a little bit in CCW adjustment should cause Rotor to spin in the arrow direction "R" or CW...like shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Making the reversed adjustments will cause rotor to spin CCW...

Critical or more degrees all the way to the gap line in either directions would generate faster speeds.

I will post later some adjustments and Ramps Poles Colors...here they are just grey, because they are set in Neutral...


Regards



Ufopolitics

EDIT: Knowing the way a Polarized Magnetic Field expands into space...I would rather build this Ramps considering to be closer to a Three-dimensional Model...or as close to a Bell Shape as I could do...this will generate a MUCH Stronger and complete Polarized and Dynamic Force...but that is complicated...so for now I will just build it with simple iron thick and flat pieces...

[mkt3920]

Balance

One set of magnets every 45 degrees works well. Magnets at 0, 90, 180, and 270 degrees in attraction. Magnets at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees in repulsion. This balances the side forces to the rotor shaft and stator housing.
Mack

I assume the underlined statement is a simple mistake, or am I missing something? It is not in line with his other statements about having balance of opposing sides (attract and repel, opposite each other). I am not trying to be picky, just reading and rereading every word. With 8 positions (every 45 degrees) you end up with pair of "same" polarity stator magnets next to each other when you have balance across from each (through the rotor shaft). Six position motor does not have this issue, as seen in UFOpolitics latest graphic. The stator magnets are +, -, +, -,+,- around the circumference and still opposite each other through the rotor shaft.
Kent