Magnet motor revelation

[MadMack]

Dave I am so sorry for your loss, and happy to hear that everyone is safe.
You know the insurance company will fight you over your tools and inventions.
All of those videos you made might be useful for documentation.

I hope this setback will turn into a blessing for you somehow.

Sincerely,
Mack

[lorinrandone]

Hello everyone
I have read very carefully the comments Ufo. he's right all the recommendations to build and balance the whole stator + motor.
I came with another more comfortable suggestion to be sure that the rotor is in balance. catch a dremel grinder for example with a rubber coach and turn the rotor to about 2500 revolutions.
If the rotor rotates uniform vibration, this well balanced. Otherwise, the rotor reaches a mechanical resonance effect that destroys all.
regards. cristian alba


God bless you, David

[Ufopolitics]

The Simplicity of this build is the Success.

Hello,

In my opinion, after knowing almost every single post from MadMack...I believe we can put together a WORKING GUIDE to start with.

I like the fact that MadMack has been very constant and specific in every sentence he has written here.

THE TWO POLE RIG

I understand this 2 pole is NOT a working motor at all, however, we must first decide what our advanced motor completed structure will be...a four, six, eight or more poles?...I have decided mine would be a Six, since it is the one where the 180º Modules will be able to apply...not the eight.

Plus MadMack said Six is the MINIMUM...I believe because Four poles is too spaced apart and would require longer ramps which also he said is not good either.

So, after having all magnets required to build the whole thing...then I start playing with the two pole rig.

And honesty I do not see the point at all in playing with magnets which we will not be using in the complete future motor...it is pure and straight waste of time, unless the person has all the time and money to waste and spent...sorry but that is NOT my case.

To me the purpose of building and testing the two pole "MODULAR STRUCTURE" rig is just to know how to perform the right parameters, like gaps, balancing and equilibrium required based on magnetic strength, dimensions, weight, etc,etc...basically in order to obtain a "Perfect Magnetic Equilibrium"...Now, here are NOT included Ramps at All!...this stage will dictate the perfect angular positioning of rotor magnets, which NOT necessarily must be exactly 30º...but maybe 27.9º...who knows, because I don't?!

The Stators Poles Bisectors Face Straight to shaft center line at all times, meaning, no angular adjustments here...so the only adjustments here after comparing each two stators poles to find out if they pull-push with what strength?...similar?...way off?...Then we know that maybe the Attracting Stator have to be moved further away from rotor line THAN Repulsion Stator...but how far in order to compensate a VERY CLOSE Repulsion Stator Force Gap?...To me this is essential here...since that distance will be reproduced all along other MODULES in a whole set.

Low speed test to me is MUCH better than too fast spinning

At low, very slow displacement from rotor is where it tells me if or not there is a dragging or cogging force still ...moving forward and reverse right in front of both stators...across that perfect line, and basically when center to center rotor and stators is where Max Point is tested.

Only when this two poles are perfectly equalized to ZERO drag, cogging, etc...is when I start playing with Ramps designs and Testing.

Now, my future Rotor will have a total of six magnets facing All North, so they will be spaced at exactly 60º apart from a line crossing shaft, where I will displace their plus-minus 30º. And going back to the two module...that means my ramps MUST BE able to apply a displacement angle of rotor of -at least- 60 PLUS Degrees where the center of my next rotor-stator would be...how do I know this?

Once Rotor-Stators are perfectly balanced I set Ramps at BOTH SIDES, and here let me say this...Just ONE RAMP , HALF SET UP WILL NOT DO GUYS!...just because we need BOTH OPPOSED GAIN from the Two Ramps...that is Part of the whole MODULAR STRUCTURE, and MUST be balanced at both ends of circumference!!

Setting one Ramp is also a waste of time, plus loose ramps, holding by hand is also a lost time and effort to show something is not gonna be like that in the future...just the tiniest shake of your hands could throw out a wrong info...So:

Ramps MUST BE FIRMLY SECURED TO BASE in order to test them.

First: Once I pass SLOWLY by the center stator line moving in the direction of rotation towards both Ramps...I should be able to just "feel" a force trying to pull rotor away from my fingers...once I feel this...then I should move it and let it go to see how far it travels...and then measure the displacement angle NOT when it dies from inertia!!...but when it slows down from previous acceleration. If am not good at "Simple Sight Seeing this"...then Film it from ABOVE Straight to center shaft!...go back to your nice color screen and play it in slow motion...observe it, advance it frame by frame, pause it etc.

Once We obtain the desired spec's according to our requirements...then it is just to "Copy and Paste" that Modular Structure...


Hope this helps to many of you who are working on this project


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

About the Ramps...

Strictly about Ramps Design,

Guys, I have displayed here a LOT of different type of ramps "possible" shapes...HOWEVER, we will not know until we test them...Now my way of testing them first is NOT at the Two Pole rig ...

I need to test Ramps are redirecting polarity with the enough strength to where I want it...So I check the pole not altered by Ramp versus the one redirecting pole...right at the ends where I need the magnetic forces...sometimes two millimiters thicker would make a huge difference...and even the shape will contribute as well.

I have placed Magnets over CRT's screen and then with ramps on...to see the difference in redirection distortions, density and strength compared to the free pole...also viewing film will tell me the length, expansion direction and density.

Shorter ramps not only because Mack said it will add more torque than longer ones due to larger pivoting angles...but also because they will redirect stronger polarities.

In order to redirect properly a strong Neo we will need about very similar mass of ferromagnetic material to provide the proper paths of density without major losses.

I have built a special but very simple tool to "Air Draw" magnetic Volumes in space...some may have seen it on my very old videos...and am still using it.

It is a brass handle with an elliptical end made of copper...where I mounted inside a known and painted polarity round and flat small magnet that rotates freely from its center, so poles face out through elliptical structure...bolts and nuts are also brass ...so the only magnetic is the magnet...when I pass it through a magnetic field it will incline by slightly rotating describing the extension and shape of field...very good tool for this...besides it tells me polarity types.


Hope this helps as well



Ufopolitics

[Turion]

Let's say that everyone builds a rotor with a 6 magnet setup such as Mack described and UFO is currently building. What is the diameter of the rotor you're going to use. We DON'T have that information from MAC. That is the FIRST variable. Then you have size and STRENGTH of magnets. N52's are not just a "little bit" stronger than N42's. There is a HUGE difference. READ UP!!!
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=magnet-grade

Rotor size+size of magnets determines available room for ramps, and so determines LENGTH of ramps. If I have a 6" diameter rotor with six magnets on it that are one inch, and you have a 12 inch diameter rotor with six magnets on it that are one inch, is the distance between magnets on the two rotors going to be the same? Not hardly. So will the same size ramp work the same on both? I doubt it. There are a LOT of variables here we do not have a handle on yet.
If my setup is different than yours, our results will probably be different.

What we SHOULD do, in the absence of more info from Mack, is set a minimum size for the rotor with six magnets on it. Everyone use the same size magnets, and each person use a rotor that is a specific amount bigger than the "base" rotor and NOT the same as anyone elses, so we start to see how size of rotor and ramps comes into play. I'm pretty sure the rotor can be too BIG as well as too SMALL for six magnets.

Dave

[Ufopolitics]

My reason to pursue this project...

Guys,

Some of you know me from this Forum...some don't...it don't matter...but the point is that if I wouldn't know that this is possible...I would never even be here to say hello, with all the work am doing completely different from this...

If I wouldn't have been able to find out -for sure- we all have been deceived big time related to magnetism...I will not be here.

If I would not have been able to obtain great amounts of Induction EMF from repelling fields...like they said "is not possible"...since there is absolutely "no field shown in repulsion"...I will not be here.

A working Magnetic Motor, without any coils attached to, no energy spent to run it...only iron, plastic or wood and magnets...may not be such strong machine...or it may not exceed great torque or speed to "compare" with other machines...BUT, it is a HECK of a simple way to demonstrate Motion Perpetuity exists...no matter if it goes under 60 RPM's...I really could care less...am not intending to hook it to a 6KW Generator head...it is just ANOTHER BIG TIME PROOF OF CONCEPT that everything we were taught was completely wrong!!

And I love that...just as much I love watching my Repulsion Based Generators working beautifully and silently...

Believe it or not...just a very simple and little machine...could change the course of mankind history...by changing and opening our minds to a brighter future.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Let's say that everyone builds a rotor with a 6 magnet setup such as Mack described and UFO is currently building. What is the diameter of the rotor you're going to use. We DON'T have that information from MAC. That is the FIRST variable. Then you have size and STRENGTH of magnets. N52's are not just a "little bit" stronger than N42's. There is a HUGE difference. READ UP!!!
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=magnet-grade

Rotor size+size of magnets determines available room for ramps, and so determines LENGTH of ramps. If I have a 6" diameter rotor with six magnets on it that are one inch, and you have a 12 inch diameter rotor with six magnets on it that are one inch, is the distance between magnets on the two rotors going to be the same? Not hardly. So will the same size ramp work the same on both? I doubt it. There are a LOT of variables here we do not have a handle on yet.
If my setup is different than yours, our results will probably be different.

What we SHOULD do, in the absence of more info from Mack, is set a minimum size for the rotor with six magnets on it. Everyone use the same size magnets, and each person use a rotor that is a specific amount bigger than the "base" rotor and NOT the same as anyone elses, so we start to see how size of rotor and ramps comes into play. I'm pretty sure the rotor can be too BIG as well as too SMALL for six magnets.

Dave

Dave,

Is good to see you here after all you have gone...

My Rotor is exactly what you have written above (How the heck did you know?...lol)...Six (6) Inches...which, by the way, I have not cut yet...I just have all geometry lines laid down and spaces where magnets will mount to. Am using a block of clear plexiglass, so I will be doing a lot of carving and drilling to Dremel the shapes out.

Of course in a 12" Rotor you will not be able to use the same size of ramps as in the 6"...I have exactly 3" Chord (Arc is a bit bigger of course) from rotor magnet to magnet center line, corner or else...and I have the lay out exactly same distance from shaft. To me that is plenty of space for small Ramps.

My Magnets originally I thought they were N52 Neo's...but unfortunately they are N35's...still they are pretty strong and very hard to take them apart once sticking together.

Measurements are: 1"X1"X1/2" and magnetized through their 1/2" wall...so every 1"x1" face are their poles.

Pull Force is 45.37 Lbs

Gauss: 11,700

Temp resistance: 176º F

EDIT: Magnets do not have a center hole on them, so mounting securing is not just a bolt and nut deal...and I have the best glue there is for magnets...but it works for steel or aluminum, don't believe with plastic...the one from Loctite...I will secure them by framing them.

I am going to use a 1/2 inch steel shaft...and I ordered a pretty big OD available for that Inner Diameter of 2 1/2"... in order to have the most stability base. Similar to the one Mack suggested from McMaster-Carr part number 5913K61 bearings and 1346K17 shaft.

EDIT:

Once anyone of Us build this Motor...we will give all details about it...at least I AM SURE I WILL, and then it could be either scaled up or down...or just replicated exactly same way...This is the BASIC and SIMPLE DEAL WHY I AM HERE.

And like I said on my previous post...I don't care about "performance" as long as it spins over and over and over...and for ever and ever...

It will be a very nice display for my desk...And like Galileo once said..."it still moves..."


Regards


Ufopolitics

[MadMack]

Ufo,

http://www.energeticforum.com/280084-post217.html
YES! Almost 100%.

The 2 pole test rig, I refrain from calling it a motor, is to TEST with.

I see you guys have the 2 magnet balancing worked out. Yes, that 2 pole is at 180 degrees but here is the point; All my motors had 2 sets of magnets in balance. Whether there are two or two hundred magnets when half are approaching an attracting magnet the other half are approaching a repelling magnet. Spacing them equally balances the mechanical stress on the rotor. Look at charly's drawing, there are 4 sets pulling outward and 4 sets pushing inward on the rotor at the same time. The six pole will have three and three equally spaced around the perimeter.

Expanding a little on what Ufo posted here http://www.energeticforum.com/280084-post217.html
Be accurate but be practical. There is no need to be absolutely perfect to have success. If you were to go into mass production or build one for continuous running then closer tolerances & balance would be required. I balanced my rotors the old fashioned way, placed the shaft horizontal & spun it & shaved until it stopped in a different place every time.

When I started out I was looking for a way to prevent the rotor magnet from being pulled backwards to the iron ramp, like Shylo mentioned. I came up with the idea to blend the end of the ramp with a magnet to over power the backward attraction of the iron ramp so the rotor could continue rotating. By blend I mean a smooth transition from the ramp to the field of the stator magnet so the rotor magnet would not “feel” the switch. I wanted the rotor to see the attraction from the ramp just “disappear” at the end of the ramp.

In my first testing I used a 1” x 4” x 12” wood rotor, ripped to 3” wide. After the magnets were balanced I hooked a spring to the rotor 3” from the shaft center. The other end was attached to a wood plate that pivoted on the shaft. I could hold the plate and slowly let the rotor be drawn across the ramp to the end and plot the spring deflection. That way I plotted the “power stroke” and knew when it occurred and the strength of it at increments along the ramp. That showed what worked and what didn't. Only after I had my “ideal” ramp could I determine the actual rotor diameter.

One last thing. Start thinking in three dimensions and give the “transition point” between the ramp and magnet some thought.

Mack

[Ufopolitics]

I think opposite. Because that is the repulsion side and the iron

should help to over come the repulsion? You mean the red shunts?

You do call them shunts don't you?

Excellent Mikey!!

Yes, the Attraction Forces PULL not Push...so we need to pull opposite to our Push Vector Forces...

Yes the Red "Shunts"...

Take care


Ufopolitics

[mkt3920]

Build

I have a 12" diameter rotor cut from 3/4" thick MDF wood. I ordered the magnets Mack suggested from K&J (1/2" cubes are N52, and 1/2x1/2x1 are N42 with nearly the same pull force as the cubes). 1/2" shaft. My plan is to glue the magnets on small pieces of plexiglass, larger than magnets, and use brass screws for mounting plexiglass to rotor (fixed but could be moved) and mounting the stator magnets, on plexiglass rectangles with threaded rod similar to the rods on Dave's video.

My thought is that the ramp length is nothing but a reshaping of the magnetic fields and has to do with the size, strength, angle of the magnets used. It is redirecting the push/pull of the magnets already there and the longer the ramp length the more loss of the inducing magnets force. (Mack said shorter ramps give more torque) I do not think it is a function of the rotor's diameter or circumference. Just my thoughts...have not tested anything yet so just sharing thoughts.
Kent

[Ufopolitics]

I have a 12" diameter rotor cut from 3/4" thick MDF wood. I ordered the magnets Mack suggested from K&J (1/2" cubes are N52, and 1/2x1/2x1 are N42 with nearly the same pull force as the cubes). 1/2" shaft. My plan is to glue the magnets on small pieces of plexiglass, larger than magnets, and use brass screws for mounting plexiglass to rotor (fixed but could be moved) and mounting the stator magnets, on plexiglass rectangles with threaded rod similar to the rods on Dave's video.

My thought is that the ramp length is nothing but a reshaping of the magnetic fields and has to do with the size, strength, angle of the magnets used. It is redirecting the push/pull of the magnets already there and the longer the ramp length the more loss of the inducing magnets force. (Mack said shorter ramps give more torque) I do not think it is a function of the rotor's diameter or circumference. Just my thoughts...have not tested anything yet so just sharing thoughts.
Kent

Hello Mkt3920,

I believe when Mack was giving the 12" inch rotor size with 1/2" Neo Cubes and 1" longer stators, plus the angles spec's every 45º...He was referring to an Eight Pole Rotor...don't think it was about a six pole...

However, in his latest post he explains how to get to the perfect rotor size...based on ramps testing.

I agree with you about rotor size is not that important...basically if we start with a rotor which is just a flat rotating platform where we mount magnets on top and would be adjustable all the way... plus we could just set stators to meet rotor magnets even "flying" (cantilever) above rotating platform along with ramps structure...is just to adjust them all at the same height. Then we cut rotor and level everything once it is tested and working fine.

So, I guess for now my 6" plastic rotor with inserted magnets in a rectangular hole, (similar to Cristian set) is not a good idea to start this testing...


Ufopolitics

[RUE]

Hi
I had an 18" rotor with eight 1x1x.5" n52's and there is too much space between the magnets.Also from what I have found with the rotor magnets is that there is alot weaker of opposite polarity in between rotor magnets when they are closer together which also comes into play and affects rotation.So if you have all north out you get a south pole in between your rotor magnets.You guys probably already know that but I noticed it does affect rotation. A 12" rotor works alot better for my 8 neos.
Joe

[Stealth]

After many years experimenting and building magnetic and gravity motors, I have found that there are some designs that work better than others. Using ceramic magnets, you can get by by using a smaller diameter rotor. If using neos. especially N52's, you will need space between the magnets so as not to affect each other. Using neos, I always used at least a 12'' rotor. My best build so far was using a 20'' bicycle wheel, already has bearings and can easily be balanced, leaves plenty of room between magnets, even when using 12 or more rotor magnets. 20x3.14159=62.318''-12=5.193''. With this spacing your magnets are not likely to interfere with each other. Using more magnets and close spacing will create a stronger motor. Using the rear wheel with gear attached will give you a way to hook up a generator or etc. when (if) you get it working. In all my trials I have discovered what I think is the ideal shape for the ramp. I call it a butterfly pattern. Observe the shape of a butterflies wings. I have also found it is easier to use both wing shapes, one on top, one on bottom to easily balance the rotor. Good Luck. stealth

[mkt3920]

Ramp

In my 8 pole motor, with magnets every 45 degrees, the ramp length was about 30 degrees. Yours may be a little different.

On a 12" diameter circle the circumference is 37.7" and this divided by 8 (magnet ever 45 degrees) equals 4.71", the curved distance between magnets. He describes the rotor length at 30 degrees (37.7 / 12) would equal 3.14".

I do not quite understand this length measurement in degrees so calculated this to see what the possibilities were. If you look at this as a ramp coming off the 0 degree mark (pointed toward 45 degrees) then its length would be about 3.14", less 1/2 the width of the magnet if it touched the side. If you look at this as a ramp coming from the 45 degree mark pointing back toward the 0 degree then this ramp length could be (4.71" - 3.14") 1.57".

Anyone else looked at this?
Kent

[mkt3920]

This picture was found online from 1949 Navy training manual on magnetism, and it shows the "ramp" (soft iron) to have south pole (inflowing) on bottom end and north pole (outflow) on top end, closest edge to magnet....and little/no fields on the side. Is this a correct representation of the polarities of a ramp next to a South facing Stator magnet? The earlier posts have me a little confused on this issue of induction. I also understand that the ramps induction could change with the influence of a close passing rotor magnet but trying to grasp just the stator and ramp.
Kent