Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

..........................the ramp I described could be called a “Y” with the stator magnet in the “V”. Don't be so much concerned about which branch has what polarity, but more about where are the attraction and repulsion forces and the direction they have.


There will be some back drag as the split in the ramp widens and this needs to be compensated for as best as can be. It might help to picture the ramp as more like a scorpion, with a shorter tail sticking up, a hump backed body with the rear end elevated, and claws extended ahead. Looking at it from the top, the body and claws would resemble a “Y” shaped tuning fork. The fork tines would be parallel just before the stator magnet, giving the rotor magnet attraction or repulsion vectors to the ramp of 90 degrees to the direction of rotation. As the rotor magnet gets to the stator magnet there is nothing but air between the two.

I would like to point out that I have said nothing about the shape of the very ends of the ramp at the stator magnet, where the ends terminate, nor the various degrees of slope and rotor magnet clearance the ramp may have along it's length.

Regards,
Mack

Thanks Mack

I have been trying everything and all I get is a tiny increase in run time
for which I am glad, but your latest post gives me something else to try.

I also tried what Cristian did in his video where he put a set of extra

magnets on his ramp. Other than that, last night I split up the ramp into

two parts and this was the best. I didn't have a fork then but all I had

was two hands holding a ramp in each hand. The CCW rotation with the

leading edge at a wide angle and as the rotor continues CCW the rotor

magnet get closer and closer. Then the ramp on the left being the side

you say to start and also the other half of the ramp on the right.

Both bent at right angles and I kept trying to find a spot that changes

the speed to keep it alive longer. I could feel the powerful pushing my

neo's offered and as I closed the gap it became harder to hold it steady.

There is a point where the rotor goes past the TDC position much better.

The ramp on the left and the ramp on the right had to be just right

for this to happen. As small as the effect was I see now I am off on my

understanding of this entire project but I am a beginner and this is my

first ever magnet motor.

I feel I have learned a great deal. I don't think the people here on these

forums understand the meaning of sharing their results, instead they want

to pop in with success and not display the struggles in between as to

their use of scientific method.

For instance I do not have a perfectly working motor yet but am sharing

my weakness and failures so when I make an advance I can show how

I arrived at that conclusion. Most of these guys will never talk till it works.


To me this is weakness as to why many have nothing to go on. Basically

I have nothing to try sometimes because I do not understand your posts

and the ones who do won't post anything for fear they will be wrong.

UFO is very courageous.

My 2 cents. Thanks MadMacks, I am here to stay. You are

a wise man, this I know.

I will show a video soon of my slow advances.

Come on you guys, hurry up.

[BroMikey]

To be simple and practical, move the end of the ramp out of the way.

Split the single ramp before it gets to the stator magnet and put the stator magnet between the halves and don't assume the ramp touches the magnet on 3 sides. Splitting the ramp converts the single vector into two vectors and changes the angle of the vectors. Where do you wish to place the induced south pole field(s)? When do you want the vector to change? How rapidly should it change? Where will the point of maximum attraction be, rotor to ramp?

Okay up until this moment it seemed like a ramp was split in half with one

piece on the left and the other piece on the right of the stator magnet.

However the post about the ramp being split into a "Y" makes me see

my error. And the stator magnet going into the "V" section of the split "Y".

Gotcha that is perfectly clear SIR.


So here is what I need. I need a split ramp in a "Y" formation.

Up until now I was not sure about the contact area of ramp to stator

magnet as to if the ramp should fasten tightly to the magnet.

With a magnet setting in a "V" shows me a loose coupling? Maybe not.

Next if I understand you Mack is I need to be getting both pull (first)

and then push? I'll have to look at this more.

I need a SINGLE SPLIT RAMP.

THAT"S WHAT I NEED. Not two ramps one on each side of the stator mag.

My comprehension skills are often hindered. I feel like a lunk head when that

hits me.

[BroMikey]

Guys, I'm sorry I can't post as often or as in-depth as I would like.


I would like to point out that I have said nothing about the shape of the very ends of the ramp at the stator magnet, where the ends terminate, nor the various degrees of slope and rotor magnet clearance the ramp may have along it's length.

Regards,
Mack

Here is what Mack has described at least in part looking from the top

view. Like a humped back scorpion with "Y" tines in front. Since the

beginning we have been told that the ramp on the Bedini attraction

motor was correct except that in this design the tail of the ramp

arcs away for the rotor magnet.

So it would seem I have been working to hard at this. I out

smarted myself

[BroMikey]

One more diagram for those of you who need a simple picture

to follow. Not all of us are scientist. This is finally sinking down

into my grey matter. Look at this EASY COMPARISON CHART.

The ramp is very important to your success or failure. Did you all get that?

THE RAMP CONSTRUCTION IS VERY IMPORTANT AS TO YOUR SUCCESS!!!

In this chart FIG 2. is what I have come up with based on Mack's posts.

We know that the Bedini, Cole, Bearden....................... motor left

Fig 1. is wrong for the MADMACK design so I have taken the liberty to

do an incomplete comparison analysis.

RAMP CONSTRUCTION IS CRITICAL. Look at the shape of the yellow ramp

closely in Fig 1. and compare that to the Fig 2. a Ramp that has not been

completed yet. The "Y" construction has been verified and is a requirement

for the ramp in the MADMACK design. You may make yours anyway you

like but this is the instruction if you are to properly replicate the MADMACK

design. The shape of the ramp up by the stator magnet in Fig 2. for either

side connected to the magnet has not yet been established so Fig 2.

is incomplete.

NOTE: I just finished a stack of grain oriented metal cuts for making

ramps. I now know how to form one to some degree.


Also for those of you unwilling to post an idea for fear it maybe

wrong, remember this. In scientific method one of the things you

are taught is the process of deductive reasoning? Hello? Can I get

a witness? Here comes UFO he understands me fine.

You got to love a smartalec

[wantomake]

Any help is welcome

Madmack,
Thanks for the explanation. Any help here at this design stage will speed along a group replication.

The post of your ability to build this with simple shop tools is good for those of us that don't have a full machine or fabrication shop to work in.

This "Y" or scorpion design shows promise on paper, now time to test a little on the bench.

wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

Guys, I'm sorry I can't post as often or as in-depth as I would like.

Ufo, my ramp pivot was nothing like the bell shape you posted so I can not comment on that. That is an interesting way to approach it though. For all I know it may be a much better design. Likewise for the compound angle stator magnets. I am sure there is much room for improvement in my design.

Regards,
Mack

Mack,

First I would like to say that I really appreciate (and love) your way to approach each one of Us here...you DO have patience Mack!...I only wish I had at least a little percentage of that..

At the same token I do identify with your disclosure here and the way it makes your conscience (and soul) to feel good and released by doing it and with such devotion...no matter if it is taking longer because of being done in between long intervals...what really matters is your patience and very consistent and defined method to guide Us in the right direction.


Sincerely big and warm regards


Ufopolitics

[MadMack]

This should make things more clear.

This is the concept only. The ramp ends are unfinished and the angles and distances are not exact. It is not to scale.

[tachyoncatcher]

My Inspirations

Gentlemen,
This is some of how i interpret Mack's comments and inspiration form other sources. As I am a wage slave, I must work to support my family and have little time for the workshop or even keep up with these posts. If my progress appears slow and my sharing, it is due to the above. All of the comments below should be taken with a grain of salt as i have not fully tested them. But, the preliminary tests lead me in the direction defined below.

The attraction and repulsive stator, leading ramps must have different terminations. The purpose of the ramps is to provide acceleration/torque and to balance the rotor transition from the "sticky points". I define sticky points as the leading corner of the repelling stator and the trailing corner of the attracting stator. The way I see it, the two stator/ramp designs and interactions are separate challenges which must be solved as separate problems.

Mike, with that in mind, I see no reason to shunt the attracting magnet in the manner drawn above. The leading edge of the attracting stator contributes to acceleration. It is the trailing edge of the attracting stator that must be balanced so the passing rotor magnet is not pulled back. This was accomplished by balancing the opposing forces on the opposite sides of the rotor. The trick is to maintain that balance when adding the ramps. They will throw off the balance.

While I thought I had the split vectors figured out, Mack's last post has caused me some confusion. I think it may be lingual confusion. Only testing will tell. I am still of the belief that the split needs to be in such a way that the ramp extends above and below the repelling stator magnet, not as drawn above. This I have tested with positive results.

My tests have shown that ramp termination at the repelling stator is going to need to be a bend with extended material to absorb the opposing, moving magnetic polarity. Not at 90 degrees that would put the end or the ramp near the opposite pole of the stator magnet, as this would contribute to the problem through induction, but using some other vector. I will leave that vector to your own imaginations as I have not had a chance to find the best angle. But, a wild guess would be ~120 degrees.

On a side note: After some induction tests with different geometries and magnet distances I found that a free moving magnet that is close (1-2mm) will always seek the center of the mass. Regardless of geometry. This makes perfect sense. However, depending on magnetic strength and distance, this can change. The further away the inductive force (magnet,) the more the forces seek balance through geometry instead of mass. Very bizarre. For example. My iron is in the shape of a Isosceles triangle on its side. Close to the metal the magnet will seek the center of the mass, closer to the base of the triangle than the point. As I increase the distance from the metal, the magnet will move closer to the center of the triangle by length of the center line, axially. I was careful to have a level base and balanced rotor. Doesn't make sense to me.

Good Luck,

Randy

[tachyoncatcher]

Slow typist

Perfect! Now I see the source of confusion. We all had our rotors laid out horizontal and made our references to top and bottom based on that reference. Mack has his rotor laid out vertical and so his top and bottom references are different. Thanks for that last post buddy! The mud has cleared.
Respectfully,
Randy

[lorinrandone]

This should make things more clear.

This is the concept only. The ramp ends are unfinished and the angles and distances are not exact. It is not to scale.

Une idée pour fabriquer le rampe. C'est noyau de transformateur - U

Cordialement cristian alba

[Ufopolitics]

Perfect! Now I see the source of confusion. We all had our rotors laid out horizontal and made our references to top and bottom based on that reference. Mack has his rotor laid out vertical and so his top and bottom references are different. Thanks for that last post buddy! The mud has cleared.
Respectfully,
Randy

[IMG][/IMG]

Yes Randy, that is exactly where all our confusion was related to reference points...

However if we look at Second Mack's post...:

Also you might be interested in looking at McMaster-Carr part number 5913K61 bearings and 1346K17 shaft.

Regards,
Mack

And we look exactly to that bearing...we will notice it is a "Base Mounting Bearing"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Everything starts to make perfect sense now...basically the ramp is split in two, with a fork shape... BUT grabbing only ONE pole...therefore, enhancing-redirecting Attraction...after passing the center alignment point between Stator-Rotor Magnets...it will basically "fall" because of previous equilibrium of both stators-rotor magnets in each module, plus the repulse ramp influence at 180º.

If We do it like Mikey did...or Bedini, by joining both poles with same iron ramp...we will be not only "shunting attraction" but reducing magnetic strength out of main interacting stator pole...creating some kind of "West" mixed polarization or a N-S Ramp.

Somehow, by setting motor like this...I see also that gravitational forces are helping/assisting here as well...right?


Anyways...all has to be re-written again...well, no sweat.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[BroMikey]

Une idée pour fabriquer le rampe. C'est noyau de transformateur - U

Cordialement cristian alba

Do you have video? I like to see your Video

[BroMikey]

This should make things more clear.

This is the concept only. The ramp ends are unfinished and the angles and distances are not exact. It is not to scale.

Okay @Mack no problem. Give me a minute to think about your diagram's.

I tried the "FORK" or "Y" last night the wrong way but I learned

something. I learned it doesn't work when I put the "FORK" across

both poles north AND south. I have tried many ways to build a good

ramp. I learn each time that there is little difference. Well I shouldn't

say that because in the beginning I did better by keeping my ramp

close to the stator magnet then gradually tapering off like shown,

where the rotor magnet comes the closest to to the stator magnet.

I have more magnets now and am setting up to build this new design.

I did see increased run time even without the "Y" connection at one

end of the magnet.


Only the one pole, in my case the approaching

rotor magnet is north so my stator magnet is south for the attraction

side and I was just sticking a chunk of soft metal up to the stator

magnets south pole only on one side with the angles like you show.

This seemed like a ramp to me in that the induced rotor magnet was

being drawn into and ever narrowing gap as it came closer to the end

of the ramp for termination on the stator magnet.





@UFO, I believe you are right, the ramp "Y" must not touch both

NORTH AND SOUTH poles at the same time.

@Randy

Thanks for this. I could not have expressed these ideas better.

"The attraction and repulsive stator, leading ramps must have different terminations. The purpose of the ramps is to provide acceleration/torque and to balance the rotor transition from the "sticky points". I define sticky points as the leading corner of the repelling stator and the trailing corner of the attracting stator. The way I see it, the two stator/ramp designs and interactions are separate challenges which must be solved as separate problems.

Mike, with that in mind, I see no reason to shunt the attracting magnet in the manner drawn above. The leading edge of the attracting stator contributes to acceleration. It is the trailing edge of the attracting stator that must be balanced so the passing rotor magnet is not pulled back. This was accomplished by balancing the opposing forces on the opposite sides of the rotor. The trick is to maintain that balance when adding the ramps. They will throw off the balance."


RIGHT AGAIN!!

[lorinrandone]

My apologies to all
I left the original text, and i forgot to translate it into English.
An idea to make the ramp. It's transformer core - U(Une idée pour fabriquer le rampe. C'est noyau de transformateur - U) Sorry, but I'm not Spanish. Sorry Ufo

[lorinrandone]

Do you have video? I like to see your Video



Sorry Mikey - not yet. I still working