Magnet motor revelation

[BroMikey]

If we want an idea of correct size of rotor and relationship of stator size to rotor size, I suggest we read between the lines a bit and LOOK AT POST #42.

Dave

Okay I have been giving that some thought as well. Something like

(RECALLING FROM MEMORY) the ramps will be longer when only

experimenting with a "CELL" and when the entire motor or

more "CELLS" are added the ramps with need to be shortened.

Then the ramps are no longer than 1.5-2X the Magnet?

Working backwards, I know. Kind of narrows some things down.

Do you have any approximations?

Note: Find a huge company OZONE GENERATOR and demand that

the insurance company pay for that OXYGENATION PROCESS.

It will kill all smells. They pop holes in the dry wall and feed the

OZONE in and after 2 days your house will no smell.

[wantomake]

#42

Dave,
I'm bombing out here, so I give up.

Post #42 I don't see anything.

[tachyoncatcher]

Dave,
I'm bombing out here, so I give up.

Post #42 I don't see anything.

wanto,
I think Dave was referring to post #25. For what it's worth, I'm using steel for my test ramps. I'll convert after the initial build.

Mike,
What's the info about the ozone for? Did I miss a deleted post or something?

All,
The way i interpret Mack and my testing, the attraction fork span the gap between the two magnets. The stator and rotor. This causes additional attraction pull to the rotor while neutralizing the magnetic domain of the ramp. *** Hey it sound feasible *** Then, bend the ends of the forks just slightly past center of stator magnet toward the rotor. To semi shunt the rotor magnet as it passes. Weakening the rotor magnet just long enough to get past the sticky point. This is my wild hair guess that I am building toward. Will let you know how it goes.

Good Luck,

Randy

[wantomake]

Me too

Thanks Randy,
I'm using steel also. 1/4" thick, and cut new ramp today to get ready for the magnets when postal brings them.

I started on a better rotor with bigger bearing also. Even with the weaker ceramics the last rotor would push and stick when passing the repulsion magnet. Time for an upgrade.

I have many motors different sizes ac and dc. Would be nice to convert the laminated core from one to use as ramps.

Happy building old friend,
wantomake

[Turion]

My mistake

Oops, my bad. The quote was from post #316.

We already know what size magnets we should be using. Mack told us. Knowing that, go to the picture he gave us in post #281. It shows a rotor with magnet on it and a stator magnet with ramp. It is possible we could learn something, knowing the size of the magnets and from that info, figuring out the size of the rotor. Knowing those two things gives us the length of the ramp, since we were also told the number of degrees of the circumference of the circle it could take up. Or maybe Mack wasn't that careful in his drawings. But what if he was?

Dave

[BroMikey]

Oops, my bad. The quote was from post #316.

We already know what size magnets we should be using. Mack told us. Knowing that, go to the picture he gave us in post #281. It shows a rotor with magnet on it and a stator magnet with ramp. It is possible we could learn something, knowing the size of the magnets and from that info, figuring out the size of the rotor. Knowing those two things gives us the length of the ramp, since we were also told the number of degrees of the circumference of the circle it could take up. Or maybe Mack wasn't that careful in his drawings. But what if he was?

Dave

Yes Mack has said the his rotor was 12" and his magnets are 1/2X1/2"X1"

I had not thought about the degrees post. He also has 8 positions.

@Randy

That note was for Dave, his house has serious smoke damage from the wild

fire disaster. Smoke is rotten It really blows a guys rotor, HEYAAA??

[Ufopolitics]

Quoting Myself...

Hello Guys,

I am working -like I said before- in a smaller scale with cubes and rectangles...

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...stop the babble and SHOW the video, c'mon bro!!...drip,drip, drip

Right Mikey...?

My question to Mack is:

After we are done -hoping- we have them balanced...

Is it normal that at low speed or after the end of spin, the two poles end up at the sticky point, and really stock?

The question is because I believe there will never be a "zero-perfect-cancellation" since rotor and stators are not within same linear/straight vector.

At some speed over time done with my fingers, there is no cogging and it rotates freely.

I have tried some quick ramps and they do make a difference by varying the sticky point and not making it that sticky.

I will be building some heavier ones tomorrow and then I will post a video.

There are some interesting view of the attract interaction...with and without ramp...under the viewing film that I will show as well.

Take care all


Ufopolitics

@Mack: Don't worry Mack...I found out -with testing+adjustments- I was completely dead wrong about all I wrote above related to balancing ...

There IS Balance and could be achieved, no matter the angle of vectors.

Balance MUST BE Perfect or nothing will work on this Motor.
That is why you have emphasized soo much about balancing, first on rotor and second on magnets adjustments to the point you have used filler gauges to measure from shaft to rotor magnets and all over the build...going extremely accurate is the ONLY WAY.

There MUST BE NOT STICKY POINTS FELT AT ALL, NO COGGING, NO DRAG, NO MATTER THE SPEED OF ROTATION OR ANGLE OF APPROACH/LEAVE...

As BOTH Rotor Magnets start approaching each stator the cancellation "rate (-/+)" MUST BE exactly disbursed all along the 180º

The Rotor should not stick, nor rest at the SAME position EVER!!

The success here is to make EVERYTHING ADJUSTABLE...Rotor Magnets and Stators, to seek for the perfect angle at rotors, AND BOTH Rotors MUST HAVE same exact Angle...Stators we know it is just closer or further...no angles on stator magnets, face to face.

If in the Two Pole rig each rotor magnet is mounted to an adjusting frame that has a sharp edge to be used as a needle-indicator for angles with the 180º line as static reference...that is the best way.

@ALL...once that you guys reach the perfect balancing set up...no matter what grade Neo's you are using...magnetism will literally disappear to the point you will think magnets has lost all magnetic force...then you are on the perfect spot.


Please, disregard previous question

Many Thanks!


Ufopolitics

[tachyoncatcher]

Smoke

Dave,

I spent 11 years in odor abatement. Get in touch if you are interested. There are multiple processes and definitely insurance claims involved. RE: post 281, Mack did say "not to scale".

U.P.: I see you obsessed too! Lol.

Take Care,

Randy

[MadMack]

Ladies and gentleman, I am now the recipient of a CEASE AND DESIST demand specifically citing this forum thread and all other public or private venues. Since everything I have discussed is prior art or general design advice I refuse to do so. My so called partners may have control of a specific motor design but they do not own the knowledge I have. I have not revealed any information specific to the patent application that was supposed to be filed “for our mutual benefit” before now.

Here is some straight to the point information: The ramp splits earlier than my drawing shows. In my side view, where the ramp approaches the rotor at a severe angle and then levels off, that is roughly the middle point of the fork spread. In other words, by the time the ramp reaches that leveling off point the split is almost half as wide as it gets. And with a 1/2” square stator magnet face, the gap between the forks is about 1/4” wide at that point. If you scale it out you will see that the angle formed by the V of the forks is roughly 16 to 18 degrees. In my top view, about 8 degrees for each fork measured from the horizontal center line of the stator magnet.

As the distance between the forks widens, the distance between the forks and the rotor magnet decreases, mostly due to the arc of the rotor travel, and this helps cancel the back drag caused by the angle between the two forks.

The function of the ramp is to provide the “power stroke” as Ufo says, then as the ramp continues toward the stator magnet, to at least maintain the rotor speed until the ramp's attraction to the rotor can be dissipated as much as possible, leaving the two magnets as the sole attraction mechanism, again as much as possible. This function is what must be accomplished with this ramp. Period, the end.

Rue,
We are not canceling magnetic poles, we balance the force applied to the rotor by two sets of magnets at separate points. Later we will alter that balance at advantageous points in the rotation so the magnet sets can aid the rotation.

BroMikey,
Eddy currents circulate parallel to the rotor shaft, so the laminations are 90 degrees to the shaft to limit the circulation. Exactly the same as in an electric motor. No need to read between the lines here.
BTW you do have the view labels reversed in post 320.
You asked earlier about the rotor material, it sounds to me like you would be the expert there. I just asked my plastic supplier for a strong, dimensionally stable nylon that was easily machinable and he sold me a material that fit the bill. Sorry I don't have the invoice and I don't remember the exact type of nylon but I got it from Sabic Polymershapes.

Cristian,

the air gap between the ramp and the magnet on the side up - down and the thick of the ramp, as a general rule?

I'm not exactly sure what the question is. The air gap is a variable, it depends on the strength of the magnets and how you decide to terminate the forks. The gap is a fraction of the stator magnet width. The cross section area of the ramp should be at least the same as the rotor magnet. The forks, at least half that at the beginning of the fork and less at the end of the fork. The point is to carry all the lines of flux of the rotor magnet until you wish to diminish the attraction between the rotor and ramp at the stator magnet, and there is more than one way to accomplish that. K&J Magnetics has information on the thickness of iron it takes to contain all the lines of force for their magnets.

Randy & Wantomake,
I used a 1/4” x 1” mild steel ramp for my initial tests. If it becomes too magnetic, heat it to a dull red & let it slowly air cool.

@Everyone,
If any of you are having excessive difficulty balancing more than two pole sets and ramps together, the motor can be divided into multiple rotors and stators on a common shaft. I'm not advocating doing this, just pointing out the possibility.

I hope I have answered all the questions that have been asked of me. If I have overlooked anyone, please repost and I will try to address the question.

Come on you guys! Some of you are so close to finishing this 2nd step I'm bouncing in my seat with anticipation.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

[Stealth]

If any of you are having trouble balancing your magnetic system, go to Keelynet energy.com and scroll down to Tomi ramp to see exactly how magnets interact with each other. Or go to JLN labs and scroll down to Bedini's magnetic gate. This will give a better understanding of the system I employ on my setup. Good Luck. stealth

[Ufopolitics]

my motor ramp fork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seXe...ature=youtu.be Also annex a picture with the ramp
regards Cristian alba

Hola Cristian,

Creo que no has entendido el post que te dedicó Mack al principio de esta página...los imanes redondos, cilíndricos no son iguales que los cubos, imanan differentes espectros magnéticos. Mack dijo que no te puede ayudar (o garantizar éxito) cuando utilizas imanes no recomendados en su motor, los cuales trabajan y que son cubos.

Relacionado con tu video y la rampa...

Esa rampa no funciona, primero porque está compuesta de dos piezas y tiene que ser una sola pieza de hierro laminado ó sólido...el punto es que al fraccionar la rampa el campo mágnético se fracciona a su vez teniendo pérdida.

Tienes espacios de aire (gaps) muy anchos...

El efecto solo lo conseguirás cuando logres balancear ambos campos interactuando a 180º.

Disculpa que te está rectificando errores, pero es desde un punto de vista constructivo para que logres el objetivo.


Saludos


Ufopolítica

[BroMikey]

Ladies and gentleman, I am now the recipient of a CEASE AND DESIST demand specifically citing this forum thread and all other public or private venues. Since everything I have discussed is prior art or general design advice I refuse to do so. My so called partners may have control of a specific motor design but they do not own the knowledge I have. I have not revealed any information specific to the patent application that was supposed to be filed “for our mutual benefit” before now.

So much for buddies who won't stab you in the back. but why

do I think you have developed a thick skin over the years of big

brass intimidation? You are a blessing indeed. So refreshing to find

a tough dude who won't be pushed over by scare tactics.

I was beginning to wonder if I would ever meet up with one.

Seems like those guy may have bit off more than they can chew.

Here is some straight to the point information: The ramp splits earlier than my drawing shows. In my side view, where the ramp approaches the rotor at a severe angle and then levels off, that is roughly the middle point of the fork spread. In other words, by the time the ramp reaches that leveling off point the split is almost half as wide as it gets. And with a 1/2” square stator magnet face, the gap between the forks is about 1/4” wide at that point. If you scale it out you will see that the angle formed by the V of the forks is roughly 16 to 18 degrees. In my top view, about 8 degrees for each fork measured from the horizontal center line of the stator magnet.

As the distance between the forks widens, the distance between the forks and the rotor magnet decreases, mostly due to the arc of the rotor travel, and this helps cancel the back drag caused by the angle between the two forks.





The function of the ramp is to provide the “power stroke” as Ufo says, then as the ramp continues toward the stator magnet, to at least maintain the rotor speed until the ramp's attraction to the rotor can be dissipated as much as possible, leaving the two magnets as the sole attraction mechanism, again as much as possible. This function is what must be accomplished with this ramp. Period, the end.

Yes prior art is a wonderful thing, all of these details just splattered

all over the Patents with a man name MADMACK putting them all together

into one nete letter for me to see. Don't think we don't understand

the debts of posts. I have spent years digging in Patents and can

appreciate your fire concerning the "REVELATION"? Of buried info?

Yes I understand.

BroMikey,
Eddy currents circulate parallel to the rotor shaft, so the laminations are 90 degrees to the shaft to limit the circulation. Exactly the same as in an electric motor. No need to read between the lines here.
BTW you do have the view labels reversed in post 320.
You asked earlier about the rotor material, it sounds to me like you would be the expert there. I just asked my plastic supplier for a strong, dimensionally stable nylon that was easily machinable and he sold me a material that fit the bill. Sorry I don't have the invoice and I don't remember the exact type of nylon but I got it from Sabic Polymershapes.


Come on you guys! Some of you are so close to finishing this 2nd step I'm bouncing in my seat with anticipation.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

I am looking at the magnets you used and they are $2 each.

Yes hurry up to those guys way away of me. Mack, thanks for

clearing my head on rules of thumb "90 degree rule"

Also I see my error on side view vs. top view. This is about the magnet.

Thanks for being a real warrior and not bailing out on me.

[Ufopolitics]

Sharing my design...

Hello Guys,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUyP...ature=youtu.be

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUyPDy_Q1mE&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]


The main reason for this video above is to share with you a method I have developed to mount and adjust rotor cube magnets with higher precision, basically on the first test rig of two poles...in order to achieve a perfect balancing of your set up.

We can reverse this rotor as well...

Plus it looks really nice...right?... now picture your full six or eight poles motor...

I will be working all day tomorrow on this to finish it then run balancing plus testing ramps video, don't know if would be able to complete by the end of day...

And yes, I will be using a bigger mounting glass plate...and standing platform...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT: I don't know if you have noticed but there is a back pull (attract to rear face of rotor magnet) in repulse mode at exact 30º of the rotor cubes...however, it goes away if we adjust from 29 to 27º...

[wantomake]

Hope

Thanks Madmack,
Sorry your associates are giving you all this trouble and I hope you can stay here on this forum until one of us can finish this project.

I plan to use laminate soft metal now that it's clear which way it's used. I have much I can use for test rigs. My magnets came today so I'll get busy.

Trying to draw to scale the ramp as you described them.

Again I hope all works out good for you.

Bromikey, how are holding your laminates together?

Ufopolitics, great video and nice build.

wantomake

[BroMikey]

Hello Guys,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUyP...ature=youtu.be

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUyPDy_Q1mE&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]


The main reason for this video above is to share with you a method I have developed to mount and adjust rotor cube magnets with higher precision, basically on the first test rig of two poles...in order to achieve a perfect balancing of your set up.

We can reverse this rotor as well...

Plus it looks really nice...right?... now picture your full six or eight poles motor...

I will be working all day tomorrow on this to finish it then run balancing plus testing ramps video, don't know if would be able to complete by the end of day...

And yes, I will be using a bigger mounting glass plate...and standing platform...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT: I don't know if you have noticed but there is a back pull (attract to rear face of rotor magnet) in repulse mode at exact 30º of the rotor cubes...however, it goes away if we adjust from 29 to 27º...

I learn something every time you speak. Get over that stage fright

Yeah that's a beauty. Nice shave job too. And the little drop in puck keeps

the weight equal on each end plus gives a guy some adjustment room.

I see brass is the way to go on fasteners. I think the stator magnets

should be adjustable to overcome slight construction imperfections unless

a cnc machine is used to make all parts.

Thanks for the video UFO.