Magnet motor revelation

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,

I guess my ability to convey a design with words leaves a lot to be desired so from here on I will use drawings. Look at this one, it accurately shows the angle of the fork tines. It does not show the reduction in cross section or the ends of the fork tines. The angle of the upward bend at the left of the fork isn't exact either.

In the top view, the rotor magnet (dashed lines) at this point of rotation will be strongly attracted by the stator magnet. From this point onward is where the rotor's attraction to the ramp should be diminishing and where the cross section of the forks will be decreasing. By the time the two magnets are aligned we want the attraction to be between the two magnets with as little as possible left between the rotor magnet & ramp. How well this is accomplished has a great affect on the performance.

Regards,
Mack

Thanks Mack,

You are doing excellent Mack, it is not your problem, nor your fault the abilities from others to understand and then interpret what you write/describe.

[IMG][/IMG]

So according to your second paragraph above...we must reduce the cross section from forks when reaching stator in order to weaken its effect at this point to rotor magnet leaving a stronger interaction between rotor-stator magnet...

As the tail sticking up is something we will have to adjust only by testing which curvature will have the best Throw Out Angle...or "Power Stroke" ...

So I believe it is better to start with mild steel bars or thick flat iron strips...in order to shape them easier.

By the way...this small Chinese neo magnets are pure crap...they are all different lbs pull...!!!

I could not find just two identical pulls going by a dozen...just close that is as good..

Must of Us really appreciate what you are doing here Mack.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[BroMikey]

Thanks everyone for being patent with me in the evolution of

my drawings. I don't know what is wrong with me sometimes.

Here is one very important facts that I had messed up on and hope

it is right this time. 1/2" magnet pole and 1/4" gap at the ramps

half way point of the "V" section.


I really am trying. The drawing that UFO has are beautiful and Macks

are the best ever. I will continue to update as I become sure of written

information. The degrees Mack post is good stuff. I need to think.

That ain't always easy.

[BroMikey]

On the subject of induction where spacing is unknown from

ramp to stator magnet. I think Macks picture of a ramp that is

no more than 3/8" thick is good for a 1" long bar neo. The rotor

magnet won't see anymore iron after than point, besides if

increased field strength was needed we could bring the forks in

closer to each side of the stator magnet to do that. We don't

want to drain the stator magnet field to much for 2 reasons.

One, we don't want to throw the cancellation section completely

off and two we don't want the field so strong that it won't let go

of the rotor magnet.

I am not sure you said that anyway. I read all of your input Sir,

that is the berries/good stuff. I wonder if MAGNET4LESS is any better.

This is why Mack has narrowed his forks to very close to the stator

magnet as all of my previous diagrams had been showing a much wider

gap between fork (Tines) ends and magnet.

I think we have all reached our critical mass of wing'in it by experiment.

It is our job now to size our own ramps for our individual magnets based

on all of the great pointers we have been given. It's up to us now.

This is all I have for now.

@UFO

Thanks for talking French to our fellow experimenter and keep laughing.

That guy has a wonderful ability to invent I am sure but he can't speak

our language. You know it and I know it, he is kidding himself. Even when

I send him my best regards he misconstrues it as a challenge.

He is out there. Give him my best if that is possible.



I'll be back if I think of any thing to add.

[BroMikey]

This is what has been on my mind for about a week now.

Tell me what you think. Will it work or will this be a failure since

the sectioned metal may pose a polarity issue? I thought that

if the leaflets were staggered in the stack it might still be viewed

as a single piece by the rotor? Not sure, tell me what you think.

I have some of the pieces already cut. I have not finished.

I am hesitant to cut up good metal till I hear from you.

Each individual motor/cell might require slight adjustments in ramp

angle so this is my solution. Oh and speed control. Instead of moving

the entire ramp.

[BroMikey]

Here are my latest test results.

I gutted my old motor and have installed two cylinder Neo's (Thats all I

have right now. So this test is done with no stator magnets. Not a

complete test YET!!! But still a confirmation!!



Fig B, D, F are all the same split "Y" ramp. I made an adjustable

ramp. When I adjust the ramp

backwards I learned something, when I adjust the ramp forwards

I learned something. Basically I am thrilled to the core over my "Y"

yes that is right MY "Y" ramp (thanks to the Wiz-Kid MADMACK) cause

I am claiming this one as a functional weapon in magnet motor design.

All other ramps have a sticky spot. The "Y" has no sticky spot as long

as each end is made as you see it.

My adjustable ramp taught me a bunch.

How can the "Y" window opening have a sticky spot with no iron

present in the magnetic field somebody is a genius.

[BroMikey]

I have been experimenting more tonight than usual due to the exciting

ramp. I had done some work (Back bent over slaving in the heat) last

month for hours and hours with very little results. I just added a stator

magnet to the ramp and as soon as I do the normal strong field of powerful

neo attractive force diminishes greatly. Let me say that again.

When I spin the rotor with only a single stator magnet the cogging is

horrendous. These neo's are 1" dia. and .63 long #N35 I had gotten 50

2mm thick by 1" and have been learning not knowing any better. I

stack 8 of them together. Round magnets, oh well i still found out alot.


I will report the difference with the recommended square one's.


Now when I add the ramp, the cogging goes WAAAAYYYYYY down.

So what am I saying? Here it is.


If we can get the balance almost cog free without ramps, the little bit

you might have left over will vanish completely when the ramp is added.

I KNOW, I JUST TRIED IT. Did ya hear me? It all goes away and all that

will be left is the "POWER STROKE".


Also the ramp I just made that is adjustable it very very very thin, what

on earth is going to be the power stroke when I build a nice big thick one?

I mean this ramp it responding better than any ramp I ever had and it is

only 3/16th thick on each "Y" limb. The pull or power stroke is going to be

tremendous with double that. I can only go so wide as shown in Fig F.

due to the angles that are very important to the operation of these "Y"

ramps. Study Fig F. and follow the general trend as Mack has instructed.


Also the ramp arms need to stay above and below the swinging rotor

magnet so the sticky cog does not come back on you. Accuracy and fine

tuning with win the prize.


Mack is is right, I am doing it now. If I stopped right now and

I never learned anything else from this point forward, I would still be coming

away with the find of a life time. Look at Fig F. in the above posts.


The width of the ramp (not the thickness) can only be so wide so as not

to get over into the south portion of the magnets north pole in any way.


Remember Fig F. and the angle you see near the magnet. Because angling

is needed to control rotor speed you need leave enough room so the ramp

is not crossing over any critic domains.

If more ramp pull is needed then stack the laminates higher of both "Y"

limbs. But I guarantee that anyone who has tried any of the normal

ramps and then used this one will be a changed person forever.


I can hardly wait to get some more materials to work with for a complete

motor so i can become practice target.


Mack you were right, the text books are all wrong and I am now beginning

to see how these field really work in the presence of these "Y" ramps.

Mikey

Ladies and gentleman'''''''''''''''''''

Later we will alter that balance at advantageous points in the rotation so the magnet sets can aid the rotation.


The gap is a fraction of the stator magnet width. The cross section area of the ramp should be at least the same as the rotor magnet. The forks, at least half that at the beginning of the fork and less at the end of the fork. The point is to carry all the lines of flux of the rotor magnet until you wish to diminish the attraction between the rotor and ramp at the stator magnet, and there is more than one way to accomplish that. K&J Magnetics has information on the thickness of iron it takes to contain all the lines of force for their magnets.


@Everyone,
If any of you are having excessive difficulty balancing more than two pole sets and ramps together, the motor can be divided into multiple rotors and stators on a common shaft. I'm not advocating doing this, just pointing out the possibility.


Come on you guys! Some of you are so close to finishing this 2nd step I'm bouncing in my seat with anticipation.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

Very important facts, also I thought of that idea of using multi planes

to make it easier to get into balance with so many odd strength magnets

and for the guys who use a table saw to cut parts. Like me.


I can't thank you enough. How could I ever repay such a gift?

[BroMikey]

K&J Magnetics



https://www.kjmagnetics.com/glossary.asp


Mack i am looking for that info on containing flux. That is a great site

thanks for sharing this.

[ron48]

I cant believe there are so many unselfish people on this site. Overunity has been overtaken by the naysayers and uncaring attitude towards the world. A great big thank you to mack who has graciously put the truth out there. also a big thank you to dave, ufopolitics, and bromikey

ron
:

[Cornboy 555]

I cant believe there are so many unselfish people on this site. Overunity has been overtaken by the naysayers and uncaring attitude towards the world. A great big thank you to mack who has graciously put the truth out there. also a big thank you to dave, ufopolitics, and bromikey

ron
:

I whole heartedly agree Ron48, some good quality here.

Regards Cornboy.

[ron48]

thank you cornboy have great respect for you to. ron

[Ufopolitics]

My 3D Analysis of Latest Mack's Ramp...

Hello to All,

@Mikey: I have been looking at your latest Ramp drawings, my friend...and I can see you may have not noticed about some details from Top and Side Views from latest Mack's CAD...resulting in a very "rigid" and straight ramp...so please take a look at my analysis below, where I have highlighted in red and blue the curvature of forks related to rotor circumference:

[IMG][/IMG]

This soft and blending curvature of forks til they "land" at stator front end is VERY important as it makes the accelerating ramp segment very effective, as rotor magnet gain in speed (inertia) to pass stator center line...This is exactly the "Take Off Ramp".

In this drawing I have NOT considered the reduction in cross-section of forks...as is not considered on Mack's drawing either, and He said it...

Also take a look at the end Tail Angle...it is NOT a 90º Square as you have it...it is around 130º and is not written on my CAD above...I just did the 30º angle of straight ramp related to its curvature circumference.

Look at other angles below:

[IMG][/IMG]

I am assuming on Mack's CAD Side View...that the red dot means the Pivoting Point...as it does not have a corresponding reference in Top View.

Also, Mack has recommended NOT to make this Ramp in sections or parts...but a WHOLE PIECE, in order not to brake/fragment the field redirection.

I will not recommend to drill holes for rivets either...use some wrapping copper or brass strips...solder them if you like.

I am using square steel rod of cold rod iron...one single piece for testing different bending shapes/angles,curvatures, etc...I believe is MUCH easier to shape it than laminated steel.

I would like here AGAIN to insist in reaching the BEST BALANCING you guys could achieve before starting playing with Ramp...this is the KEY to success.

If there is not a good balancing of Opposite Forces Neutralization as you spin it SLOWLY...the Ramp effect will NOT be observed.

If the Rotor Magnets are not identical in strength (pulling force)...you guys will NEVER find a Balance...it could show it at one 180º position...but NOT at the next 180º (360º)...and remember that BOTH Rotor Magnets MUST have same, identical inclination angles.

I was working with 1/4X1/4" N-35 Cubes and they are VERY bad quality...as NONE have the same pull force...I mean not even one in a total of 10 of each...

So I just ordered some N-42's and N-52's from K&J Magnetics...hoping they are a better quality in craftsmanship and spec's than my previous source...


I wish you all good luck in your builds



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

ROUND MAGNETS and shapes on a CRT this can be compared to

the square magnet patterns later. Round magnets are not square magnets

and square magnets are not round magnets. Look at round magnets.

Mikey...since you have brought the above picture...I will use it to comment about it...thanks for posting it...and absolutely the below post is not addressed just to you but to all participating here.

That old image of a "Theorized" Magnetic Field is COMPLETELY WRONG...it has been based on the very old and ridiculous method of iron filings... iron filings will get magnetized under BOTH POLES Influence...becoming little magnets with N/S polarization...THEN they will form alignment CHAIN bridges between one pole and the other...HOWEVER, this does NOT means AT ALL, the REAL Magnetic Field looks like ABSOLUTELY anything close to that.

[IMG][/IMG]

North and South are COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT Polarized Fields, OPPOSED to each others and totally different in Space Locations by 180º.

The only thing in COMMON they have, is that BOTH EMERGE and RETURN to the same exact center of the Magnet, through the "Domain Wall" (Equator Plane)...or much better expressed the Dielectric Plane...Counter-Space, the origin.

There is ABSOLUTELY no communicating flow between both poles North and South, unless we "Catalize" it with iron filings...or any other ferromagnetic component within the fields geometrical scope.

If this would be so...a flow from North to South or viceversa...then, why we only get a South Pole at Mack´s Ramp near the end of Stator South Pole??! and absolutely NO NORTH POLE!?...If there would be a "communicating flow" (Both Poles Present)...then we should get a "mixed salad" of both polarities, a N-S Ramp according to flow direction...but NOPE...not in reality...not at all!

It simply means we can redirect/distort/maneuver South Pole without ANY Interference from North Pole and viceversa...simple and clear as water...

It is a FALLACY, A LIE...that has existed for over 200 years!!

The Real Magnetic Field looks like this:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

A Cube Magnet under Ferrocell:

[IMG][/IMG]

Spirals polarization's with their centers vortexes VERY well defined...center dividing plane...very clear...

A Rectangular Cube Magnet under Viewing Film...:

[IMG][/IMG]

VERY WELL DEFINED in Black both poles 3D ellipses...AND a VERY CLEAR center light green LINE separating both polarization's.

If You all do not get to understand the Real Magnetic Field...you will never understand a Full Magnetic Motor spinning...for free. As the old concept from iron filings does not see it as ever been possible...

As you will not ever believe there could be Induction achieved from Repulsing Fields...or any Generator Machine that uses this technology...plus many, many more other new technological developments based/derived from this Modern View of the Real Geometry of the Magnetic Fields...

I could never stop thanking Theoria Aphopasis (Ken Wheeler) and his free book plus detailed explanations on his Thread...bringing all this covered up realities to all of Us about magnetism.


I have posted this material here because I consider it very important to see how our motor will spin...or how to see "the invisible side" we are working on here, and be able to explain it later...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[BroMikey]

Hello to All,

@Mikey: I have been looking at your latest Ramp drawings, my friend...and I can see you may have not noticed about some details from Top and Side Views from latest Mack's CAD...resulting in a very "rigid" and straight ramp...so please take a look at my analysis below, where I have highlighted in red and blue the curvature of forks related to rotor circumference:


Also take a look at the end Tail Angle...it is NOT a 90º Square as you have it...it is around 130º and is not written on my CAD above...I just did the 30º angle of straight ramp related to its curvature circumference.

Look at other angles below:





I would like here AGAIN to insist in reaching the BEST BALANCING you guys could achieve before starting playing with Ramp...this is the KEY to success.

If there is not a good balancing of Opposite Forces Neutralization as you spin it SLOWLY...the Ramp effect will NOT be observed.

If the Rotor Magnets are not identical in strength (pulling force)...you guys will NEVER find a Balance...it could show it at one 180º position...but NOT at the next 180º (360º)...and remember that BOTH Rotor Magnets MUST have same, identical inclination angles.

I was working with 1/4X1/4" N-35 Cubes and they are VERY bad quality...as NONE have the same pull force...I mean not even one in a total of 10 of each...

So I just ordered some N-42's and N-52's from K&J Magnetics...hoping they are a better quality in craftsmanship and spec's than my previous source...


I wish you all good luck in your builds



Regards


Ufopolitics

Hey UFO

You are the star of my show today.

I will look over the arc's/angles. Not sure why your CAD calls

for 155 degrees? These details need much review but your info is

far more advanced than anything we have so far. The long arcing

curve is something I have done here and is the right way to build

the ramp. I have experimentally adjusted the middle angle and

I think 155 degrees seems good also.

Did you get that figure out of your math?

Either way UFO, this is good stuff. We are seeing more everyday.

Keep up the good work.

[Siggi1974]

Thanks Ufo

Hey Ufo,
thanks for bringing this brilliant information here, as I believe this is one key to make this motor run...However as far as I understood Ken's picture from magnetism the accelerated centrifugal force lines exit at the edges of a magnet's surface with highest speed and will enter again centripedally in the middle of the other side of the magnet where they are accelerated again towards the dielectric inertial plane. The only difference of a South and a Northpole is the direction of spin they have on their travel, either CW or CCW. Maybe I am wrong but this is how I undestood Ken. I think this whole topic is important, when we think of an induced Iron ramp in the areas where the force lines of the stator magnet are strongest. I also think that this is the reason to angle the rotor magnets namely to show the ramp and stator magnet only the edges of the rotor magnet...

Best regards
Siggi

[BroMikey]

Mikey...since you have brought the above picture...I will use it to comment about it...thanks for posting it...and absolutely the below post is not addressed just to you but to all participating here.


It is a FALLACY, A LIE...that has existed for over 200 years!!


I could never stop thanking Theoria Aphopasis (Ken Wheeler)


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Are you kidding? I know very little, say on, UFO say on. I love how

careful you are about damaging peoples image, but I have no image

to damage. It's just little ole me!!


All seriousness set aside.


And some of you other guys need to give us your insight, so let her rip.

All I have is you Mack, Dave, Randy to interrogate. A million questions

with only a tiny experience. But remember this, when I find

the gold nugget I recognize it right away. Your information is the

good stuff. This is my high for the day. And tomorrow, I'll get off

again by this learning fix I am hooked on. It's my crutch.



Question number 999,999 where can I find the flux density

information that Mack talked about where I am sure some sort of

basic conversion formula shows the amounts collected or trapped

in iron. This information will give me a way to figure out how much

iron (as a minimum) I need when making a ramp that will be the

item used to redirect the flux path.

Also Gauss is part of this thought. For anyone seeing this question

this shows how unlearned I am concerning basic motor facts. All

motor designers use those simple formula's wherever they are.


Note: Now let me rephrase about the curvature in your beautifully

done drawings. I am not a designer, yet I am a thinker and when I

got going (Mack pushed me over the edge) I began looking at what

must be done with any ramp to optimize induction.


I learned that bending the metal around gave a lot of results not

found in a book. And the first thing I saw was that the rotor travels

in an arc so any induced field will also. It has been pointed out that

the gaps all around the magnet motor might be measured in thousandths.

Since .060 thousandths offers a huge increase over a .090 thousandths

gap I realized right away that in order to keep a uniform progression

of field strength used to accelerate the rotor, I need to keep a careful

watch that the rotor is following a precise curve.

It's the little things, right Mack?

I'll be back with question Number 999,998 later

I trust you all. Randy hurry up I want to see it running.