What is Cold Electricity?

[DavidE]

Speculation...

A predominately negatively charged force. Closely associated with HF through an appropriate dielectric. More longitudinal qualities than transverse. Natures "balancing force."

How to manifest? Start with HF positive potential values through a dielectric causing spatial tension, negative charge floods in to negate the imbalance.

The rates of the action is a subset of spatial resonance (friction) and voltage (pressure).

[wayne.ct]

Consensus?

Thanks for the additional input.

There is no consensus. It would be nice if someone could step forward and say in positive terms what it is, when it occurs, how to produce it or the circumstances in which it appears. I don't really care about empty conjecture and speculation regarding how all these conventional terms converge and possibly produce cold electricity. I am not searching for cold electricity because I have pretty much told you what I think it is. I want to know how to build an experiment in which something unusual will be manifested. I thought cold electricity might be the project I am looking for.

So, don't give me a million possibilities and tell me to go do it. Give me ONE concrete example and say to me to duplicate this experiment and you will be able to see it.

The best answer, so far, is actually the most negative and discouraging answer. That, of course, would be the post by thx1138.

It seems that Gerry Vassilatos was the first to put forward the notion of cold electricity and his theory was not very strong. thx1138 thinks and says it is entirely imaginary. I would assume that he means the concept is empty and without foundation.

Tesla did many experiments involving very high voltages if we were to describe them in contemporary terminology. Tesla called these "high potential" "high pressure" and used a lot of similar language. It still seems to me that cold electricity is nothing more or less than what you may see when high voltages are present. Another term in contemporary usage is "electrostatic field", sometimes "electrostatic potential" or "electrostatic voltage". I agree with the characterization of EM into categories of longitudinal and Hertzian. It seems clear to me that the radio waves of Alexanderson and Tesla are not the same as what are mostly in use today.

What apparatus should one construct to reproduce an endothermic result in a portion of a circuit involving high voltages? Or, is cold electricity another version of the Peltier effect, a version that does not require the use of semiconductors?

Has anyone witnessed any sort of demonstration in which the presenter claimed to show cold electricity? Maybe we should be discussing endothermia? Has anyone seen endothermia and cold electricity equated outside of this thread?

I would like to hear first hand reports from anyone that has something to say. Since we don't have any (many?) first hand reports so far, redirecting to primary sources would be good. The reference to Gerry Vassilatos was interesting, but it was obviously not much of a source, at least not in a positive way.

Regarding cold charges, is there an experiment or experimenter that can explain more about that?

Thanks again for the comments. And Bob, I read your posts and I heard you.

[thx1138]

The only thing I have direct experience with is the Peltier device. I have an Igloo "iceless" cooler. The Peltier device will never provide electricity but it consumes a lot of it. My cooler came with a 120V 60Hz->18V 30 Amp power supply. Besides the Peltier device there is also a fan to blow air across the external heat sink to remove the heat. The Peltier device basically moves heat from the inside of the cooler to the outside air via thermal semiconductors but it will only drop the temperature inside by 30F - 40F degrees from ambient. The newer ones might be somewhat better and/or use less power. I think they were initially developed to provide solid state refrigeration on submarines. They're great for that because they have no moving parts to make noise and the submarine is nuclear powered so there's plenty of power to run it. (ahhh, that radiant energy again )

The opposite effect, generating electricity from heat, is accomplished via the Seebeck effect. That's what makes a thermocouple work. In a gas fired water heater a thermocouple projects into the pilot light flame and it generates a few milli Volts to let the controller know that the pilot light is lit. If the pilot light flame goes out the thermocouple voltage is not present and the controller will not open the main burner valve because there is no pilot light flame to ignite the main burner. It additionally turns off the pilot light gas flow so it doesn't accumulate. That's why you have to push the control valve in to light the pilot light - that bypasses the pilot light gas flow valve.

Edit: What's interesting about the Peltier and Seebeck effects is they occur at the interface between two different two materials.

Peter Lindemann produced a book titled "Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity". In it he cites Gerry Vassillatos' book but, again, there isn't much usable info. He gets into the Edwin Gray "radiant energy" motor and shows a lot of photos and patents of Gray and Tesla. He does not, however, explain what "radiant energy" or "cold electricity" is and you can't really build anything from the info. BTW, the "lost/suppressed/etc" Gray motors have been found and they don't work. I spent about a year of my life screwing around with the Gray motor stuff and never got anything worthwhile. So this one is is on a par with Vassillatos' book IMO.
Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity

Floyd Sweet's VTA/SQA was said to produce circuits that ran cooler than the ambient temperature. He doesn't mention "cold electricty" but I included it here because of the reported cooler running circuits. I looked at the VTA/SQA for a while and gave it up because no one knew how the magnets were "conditioned". I've since found more info on that and am looking into it again. But again, there's no plans that would enable you to build a working device. There are schematics and photos. If the magnets could be figured out it might be reproducible.
Nothing Is Something by Floyd Sweet

The important part of the following video is the talk about the "magnetic bubble". Please let me know if you see anything else that stands out to you.
VTA semi-successful replication (a few seconds)

IMO, Tom Bearden has some interesting comments on how the Sweet VTA works. He's calling it "negative energy" rather than "cold electricity".
Secrets of Sweet activation and related information

I'm pursuing the "magnetic bubble" info in regard to the Hendershot generator. It probably won't turn into anything because the Hendershot device doesn't use a barium ferrite magnet as far as I know although the armature was said to be "soft iron" which could be ferrite but I'm pretty sure it was Permalloy. It looks too thin to be ferrite and have the perimeter dimensions needed. A Permalloy armature attached to a radar magnetron magnet creates a sort of "magnetic bubble" in the center of the armature because the center pole of the magnet, which is the opposite polarity of the outer poles, is physically recessed away from the armature. The bubble shows up clearly under magnetic field viewing film. That's what got me interested in the VTA magnetic bubble. I don't however, remember seeing anything about cooler temperatures in regards to the Hendershot generator.

In the end I don't have anything helpful yet other than knowing a few things to avoid - Gerry Vassillatos, Peter Lindemann, Edwin Gray, and Peltier devices.

[thx1138]

It seems that Gerry Vassilatos was the first to put forward the notion of cold electricity and his theory was not very strong. thx1138 thinks and says it is entirely imaginary. I would assume that he means the concept is empty and without foundation.

I think Vassilatos made up the phrase "cold electricity" as a marketing ploy to sell books. It's similar to Edwin Gray's "splitting the positive" and Peter Lindemann's use of the term "radiant energy" without explaining what it is. There may, indeed, be a phenomena that causes the circuit to be cooler than the ambient environment but it is not the electricity that is cold but the equipment.

What apparatus should one construct to reproduce an endothermic result in a portion of a circuit involving high voltages?

Tesla noticed it when building Roentgen (X-ray) tubes. So that would be one device but it was a byproduct of the tube evacuation not a form of electricity. I think that may be the source of what Vassilotos twisted into "cold electricity".
On Roetgen Rays

Or, is cold electricity another version of the Peltier effect, a version that does not require the use of semiconductors?

See above post. A Peltier device uses semiconductors but they are made of thermally conductive materials and it is the heat that is conducted rather than electricity. I think of it as the electricity heating the "gate" in a "thermal transistor" that allows the heat to flow from the source to drain.

IMO, "cold electricity" is a misleading phrase. Although we think of cold as the opposite of hot, cold is really just less hot so it's a relative term. I have some rural property where the water source is a windmill. In the 100F summer temperatures taking a shower under the windmill invokes screams from the "freezing" water. In the winter 30F temperatures the same water feels good because it is warm. The water is always 68F because it's from +200 feet below ground. The point is that it's the environment that changed temperature, not the water. Like Farmhand said, there's only one electricity.

Just thinking out loud here:
Typically, we hear that shorting the circuit causes ice to form on the wires at the point of contact and that is a manifestation of "cold electricity".

Evaporation is a cooling process. When the refrigerant in an air conditioning system expands (evaporates) in the expansion coil it cools the metal of the expansion coil from the inside out. That, in turn, cools the air passing over the expansion coil by absorbing the heat in the air and in the process causes condensation of the water vapor in the air on the outer surface of the expansion coil. If there is insufficient air flow through the evaporator coil to carry away the cooled air, the water accumulated on the evaporator coil will continue to cool until it freezes, further reducing the air flow until the entire evaporator coil is a block of ice.

So the question is, how can we use electricity to cause evaporation near the surface of the wire sufficient to cause icing? Typically, there wouldn't be much air flow over the wire in a lab or shop. High voltage, high frequency electricity may play a role here because it would be on the surface of a bared wire exposed to the air and using the right frequency might disassociate some chemical in the air to be the equivalent of evaporation. Tesla's use of HV, HF electricity in the "On Roetgen Rays" article sort of reinforces this idea although it was the gas in the Roetgen tube that was being "evaporated". But also note that it was a localized effect just around the electrode which would be similar to the exposed end of a wire.

Am I blubbering again?

[level]

Thanks for the additional input.
There is no consensus. It would be nice if someone could step forward and say in positive terms what it is, when it occurs, how to produce it or the circumstances in which it appears. I don't really care about empty conjecture and speculation regarding how all these conventional terms converge and possibly produce cold electricity. I am not searching for cold electricity because I have pretty much told you what I think it is. I want to know how to build an experiment in which something unusual will be manifested. I thought cold electricity might be the project I am looking for.

From what I have seen, many people throw terms around like 'cold electricity' or 'radiant energy', etc. often without having any real idea what they are talking about.

The closest thing that I can recall reading about that mentioned 'cold electricity' in a way that made some sense to me was in regards to Floyd Sweet's devices, if I recall correctly now. From what I recall, it was mentioned that Floyd Sweet's device would actually show a notable drop of temperature in part or parts of the driver device, indicating that it was either producing electricity in an unusual way, or it was producing an unusual form of electricity. Whatever was going on, the device could still power conventional loads like light bulbs and motors, but it was mentioned that this electricity had some unusual properties. Floyd Sweet, who by all accounts was a highly educated man with a high degree of technical expertise, apparently never fully revealed how his devices worked, and he may have deliberately mislead people sometimes to help keep his secrets from getting out to others. He appears to have taken his secrets with him to the grave.

Based on the above, I think that 'cold electricity' is something which when being produced causes parts of the generator or circuitry to become quite noticeably colder than the surrounding environment, as opposed to ordinary electricity which causes heating in wires and components due to resistive or other types of losses in the circuitry or device. This 'cold electricity' may have other unusual properties as well. I personally have not seen any video demonstrations of any claimed over unity devices in recent years where this sort of cold electricity effect has been demonstrated, although I have come across a claim or two that mentions a similar type of effect.

I would also be interested in hearing of any experiments or video demonstrations that may demonstrate this type of effect in regards to over unity devices.

[level]

Here is an excerpt describing the 'cold electricity' effect that Floyd Sweet's devices were
supposed to show, as described by some witnesses:

" Some observers of the light emanating from ordinary 120 volt
100 watt incandescent bulbs powered by the VTA claim the light is
different, softer, than normal incandescent light. The VTA
magnets and coils when powering loads of over a kilowatt become
cold and temperatures of 20 degrees Fahrenheit below ambient have
been observed. Similar reports of below ambient temperature of
energy machine components have been reported by other inventors,
such as John Bedini and John R.R. Searl.

When the VTA output wires had been accidentally shortened,
first an extremely brilliant flash occurred. When the wires in-
volved were examined shortly afterward, they were found covered
with frost. Unfortunately this also caused the VTA magnet to
fracture and the machine ceased operating. In one instance the
machine operation ceased during a local earthquake. The physical
shacking was not believed to be sufficiently severe to disrupt
the machine magnet/coil relative placement or physical shock to
the magnet such as a hammer blow might impart. The best specula-
tion is that the machine was affected by the intense electromag-
netic pulse known to originate from earthquakes. "

Excerpted from:
FLOYD SWEET'S VTA UNIT by Walt Rosenthal

[DavidE]

wayne.ct

Tesla and Dollard might be some credible sources if you can agree with these interpretations of their work.

Many believe that this different form of power appears after the capacitor or capacitive effect in the circuit. Or in simplest words, dielectric power.

Effects of Tesla’s Cold Electricity and Radiant Energy in Hairpin Circuit
Tesla’s “hairpin circuit” produces cold electricity using radiant energy. Cold electricity is what Eric Dollard would call a pure dielectric field and is also produced in a properly constructed and tuned Tesla coil. It is constructed with a spark gap or other disruptive/polarizing device and capacitors to the other part of the circuit which is only connected through capacitors. Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy. Radiant energy is produced generally by a high voltage capacitive discharge that is interrupted.

https://markzive.wordpress.com/2013/...irpin-circuit/

I love the subject matter wayne.ct. But for every 1 person that accepts this simple way to manifest cold electricity, 10 people will come out of the weeds and give you competing explanations.

Even though Tesla and Dollard (and lets not forget Lindemann) have weighed into the subject, the prevailing social interpretation is that Cold Electricity doesn't exist.

My last comment on this...I believe that once the threshold of cold electricity is produced, it is not the only force or power produced by the circuit. So most would prefer to stay with their interpretation of which elephant they see, and leave it at that.

[wayne.ct]

Manipulating magnetic flux

Any time you have a coil of wire and a changing current through the wire you have a situation where the magnetic flux is changing. What I don't know and would like to find out is what is happening and what can be made to happen. If instead of having resistance losses I should find I have the opposite taking place, I suppose I could call that negative resistance or cold electricity, but I don't know yet how to make that happen.

The video of Mike Watson and Don Watson (no relation) was interesting in that they both seemed to say that they had partially duplicated Floyd Sweet's VTA. The magnetic "bubble" is a region on a surface of a magnet or other material where a circular north area surrounds a south region. (or vice versa?) It seems that you have to magnetize your own barium ferrite materials to get the necessary polarization. That is something I have not tried to do. I don't know that I am going to go that route any time soon, but I might.

In any case, the video of the two Watsons had some basic construction information. To me, it all seems related to manipulating the magnetic flux. I have built a device that was intended to let me manipulate the magnetic flux. I took some measurements and looked at the voltage induced in the secondaries, but I have more experiments to do with that particular arrangement. I suppose I'll get some answers eventually. So far, everything seems to act like a fairly normal transformer but with some unusual voltage spikes.

Very few people are willing to tell exactly how to do what they did, especially if they think they have something revolutionary. If they do claim to have something, they try to conceal the secret of how they got it to work. I suppose they think they are going to get rich if they hide their discoveries.

[wayne.ct]

Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy.

I'm not ready to risk my life on something I don't understand but i would like to build a device where I can add some loads and use less power at the same time. In fact, that is what I am working on now without much success so far.

[dR-Green]

Tesla and Dollard might be some credible sources if you can agree with these interpretations of their work.

Many believe that this different form of power appears after the capacitor or capacitive effect in the circuit. Or in simplest words, dielectric power.

Effects of Tesla’s Cold Electricity and Radiant Energy in Hairpin Circuit
Tesla’s “hairpin circuit” produces cold electricity using radiant energy. Cold electricity is what Eric Dollard would call a pure dielectric field and is also produced in a properly constructed and tuned Tesla coil. It is constructed with a spark gap or other disruptive/polarizing device and capacitors to the other part of the circuit which is only connected through capacitors. Extremely high voltages and frequencies are perfectly safe to handle in this circuit. The circuit or even loads can be shorted and continue to work. Loads only need to be connected by one wire. Power consumption decreases when a load is applied due to radiant energy. Radiant energy is produced generally by a high voltage capacitive discharge that is interrupted.

I love the subject matter wayne.ct. But for every 1 person that accepts this simple way to manifest cold electricity, 10 people will come out of the weeds and give you competing explanations.

Even though Tesla and Dollard (and lets not forget Lindemann) have weighed into the subject, the prevailing social interpretation is that Cold Electricity doesn't exist.

Why don't you ask Eric if your interpretation of his and Tesla's work is correct? Don't forget to make it clear that you're talking about the "hairpin circuit" which Tesla described in terms of impedance phenomena. He might be around to give you an answer today.

http://www.energeticforum.com/eric-d...ollard-80.html

[DavidE]

Oh ****... dR-Green is here.

That will suck the ether out of any room.




Go for it friend, the cut and paste buffer is ready for you.

[thx1138]

Any time you have a coil of wire and a changing current through the wire you have a situation where the magnetic flux is changing. What I don't know and would like to find out is what is happening and what can be made to happen. If instead of having resistance losses I should find I have the opposite taking place, I suppose I could call that negative resistance or cold electricity, but I don't know yet how to make that happen.

The video of Mike Watson and Don Watson (no relation) was interesting in that they both seemed to say that they had partially duplicated Floyd Sweet's VTA. The magnetic "bubble" is a region on a surface of a magnet or other material where a circular north area surrounds a south region. (or vice versa?) It seems that you have to magnetize your own barium ferrite materials to get the necessary polarization. That is something I have not tried to do. I don't know that I am going to go that route any time soon, but I might.

In any case, the video of the two Watsons had some basic construction information. To me, it all seems related to manipulating the magnetic flux. I have built a device that was intended to let me manipulate the magnetic flux. I took some measurements and looked at the voltage induced in the secondaries, but I have more experiments to do with that particular arrangement. I suppose I'll get some answers eventually. So far, everything seems to act like a fairly normal transformer but with some unusual voltage spikes.

The discussion about Floyd sweet's device reminded me of the following. It took me a while to find it again. Although this uses some special materials, it seems relevant but it's not about electricity. They use permanent magnets.
Magnets used for cooling

The magnetic bubble is interesting and the following link shows how to make one but it destroys the equipment that makes the bubble. The Watsons were talking about using pulses at 60 Hz to make their bubbles so that definitely wouldn't have been destructive like Russ Greis' shown at the link. His was just a one-shot attempt with materials on hand. There is a photo of the bubble in the Permalloy Hendershot armature under magnetic field viewing film further down in the thread. There's also a Sweet VTA schematic there.
Successful Replication of "Polymagnets"

[wayne.ct]

Electricity and Magnetic Flux

We seem to be drifting off topic. I wonder if anyone else has a cogent definition of cold electricity. Conventional physics seems to posit a direct connection between electricity and magnetism. Specifically, if you have a "flow" of electrons a magnetic field instantaneously appears, i.e. it propagates faster than c. Likewise, if magnetic flux strength changes (and a conductor is present) electrons instantaneously experience a force and start to move. This is also faster than light. All this totally confounds Einstein. I'm not sure this relates to cold electricity. But, if you think it does, please explain where I am going wrong. Please be direct and explain as simply as is consistent with logic.

If you need a multi-pole magnet and a Floyd Sweet energizing coil, that seems reasonable, but I guess the technology is still not discovered and/or is not out in the open. It seems that the best definition of cold electricity is electric potential and hot electricity is electric current. I.e. cold electricity is volts or EMF. "hot" electricity is amps or electron flow.

Perhaps "hot" electricity is diamagnetic and cold electricity is dielectric? This seems to be related to Eric Dollard's view. If you think you understand the four-quadrant theory and you think it is related to cold electricity, please explain.

[DavidE]

wayne.ct

As I stated... Tesla, Dollard or Lindemann may be a good source for an updated interpretation of Cold Electricity. We do have quotes from long dead inventor Tesla, which are not always interpreted as meant, its always a best guess in that regard. And the live ones must be willing to come forward to gives us a hint as to how they see it.

Otherwise, flavor of the day will in time cause this thread to turn gray with infinite variations.

An interesting note that is VERY on topic is that many weather stations have now began to add to their weather graphics positive and negative lighting strikes. This may be a big clue as to the yin and yan of electricity type.

One question to Mr. Infinite Impedance dR-Green. Does Cold Electricity exist and what are its properties? Here is your opportunity to add value to the thread (over and above trying to displace my posts). Go ahead, I am all ears.

[dR-Green]

wayne.ct

As I stated... Tesla, Dollard or Lindemann may be a good source for an updated interpretation of Cold Electricity. We do have quotes from long dead inventor Tesla, which are not always interpreted as meant, its always a best guess in that regard. And the live ones must be willing to come forward to gives us a hint as to how they see it.

Otherwise, flavor of the day will in time cause this thread to turn gray with infinite variations.

An interesting note that is VERY on topic is that many weather stations have now began to add to their weather graphics positive and negative lighting strikes. This may be a big clue as to the yin and yan of electricity type.

One question to Mr. Infinite Impedance dR-Green. Does Cold Electricity exist and what are its properties? Here is your opportunity to add value to the thread (over and above trying to displace my posts). Go ahead, I am all ears.

Preventing disinformation is adding value. Of course, depending on one's intention.

Go for it friend, the cut and paste buffer is ready for you.

I would be liable to misrepresent you as I have no motive to do otherwise. You should represent yourself. I already know what the answer is going to be. And I suspect you do too, which is why you won't ask the question.