What is Cold Electricity?

[thx1138]

Can we get back to the discussion of Cold Electricity?

Many years ago after building and testing some Bedini circuits I noticed that the negative terminal on the charging lead acid battery would assume a temperature of 1-3 degrees colder than the positive terminal (while charging). These circuits were before implementing any kind of cap discharge circuit.

I ran these test many times and took a measurements before running the test (after the battery had sat for days) and at hourly intervals while running. Like clockwork... the negative terminal became "colder" than the positive terminal.

At the time, I didn't assign much of an explanation because I was still amazed as to being able to build the circuits at all, and make them work (Thank you John Bedini).

So here is my question? Would we consider that this kind of result could be evidence of a different kind of energy than typical battery charging? And for that matter - none of the batteries that I charged with Bedini technology ever seemed to get warm, like conventional charging.

In addition to the lower temperature noted... there were many other phenomena that were noted that were unique, versus conventional battery charging.

Did you record the ambient temperature also? Comparing both to ambient rather than to each other would be more informative. Hot and cold are relative terms. But relative to what?

[Aaron]

capitalism and cold electricity

Aaron

cap·i·tal·ism
ˈkapədlˌizəm/
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

Private Owners for profit.


There is this prevailing attitude than many in this field freely collaborate, when in reality its far more about facilitating a low cost way to catalyze their own thinking, bringing gain for themselves. Forums can be like that. You take the chances by underwriting the cost, so its your privilege.

"Only a couple people know about this and it will stay that way until I have time to scale it up a bit and do more tests."
"What I am actually saying is that I'm not going to waste anyone's time with this circuit that has been tested at flea power levels and will offer it up when I know it is actually worth pursuing."

I am doing my best to get your meaning - because you do really have great explanations in this challenging field - but these two statements are miles apart.

Sooner or later if we want this field to progress in a larger sense, everyone will need to be more about freely sharing experimental observations and less about guarding existing beliefs, deity inventors, or capitalistic interest. How many people need to die with their secrets before we all learn?

And based on your last note about value of pursuing? Why not just release your observation to the world?

Not sarcasm here, just a truth. I am one of your customers, and your attitude in your post, will not help you sell books. I would hope that you work in your field out of love of the subject matter and the meaning it produces for you - otherwise make a new choice.

I only came to this thread to learn how others oriented around Cold Electricity. I apologize to wayne.ct that my presence has produced some non-Cold Electricity clutter.

I responded here so that this thread isn't knocked off track: http://www.energeticforum.com/genera...lism-myth.html

In regards to "cold electricity", the Kromrey G-Field generator is probably the most blatant demonstration that any of us will get our hands on and all information on how to do it has been freely given in this forum over the years. Search for the Kromrey papers - there are 2 or 3 and then there are the patents.

[Bob Smith]

Did you record the ambient temperature also? Comparing both to ambient rather than to each other would be more informative. Hot and cold are relative terms. But relative to what?

Ambient as a marker may be helpful, but when you see a battery or cap start out at a certain temperature, and grow colder to the touch in the space of 1-3 minutes, there is something besides conventional electricity at work, the way I see it.
Bob

[thx1138]

Ambient as a marker may be helpful, but when you see a battery or cap start out at a certain temperature, and grow colder to the touch in the space of 1-3 minutes, there is something besides conventional electricity at work, the way I see it.
Bob

Agreed. But all he said was 'the negative terminal became "colder" than the positive terminal.' I guess we would have to see the numbers. If the positive terminal was getting hotter, the negative terminal would be "colder" and the difference would be getting larger without the negative actually changing.

[mikrovolt]

The thermoelectric effect has a curious similarity.
wikipedia helps define thermoelectric effect
The term "thermoelectric effect" encompasses three separately identified effects: the Seebeck effect, Peltier effect, and Thomson effect. Textbooks may refer to it as the Peltier–Seebeck effect. This separation derives from the independent discoveries of French physicist Jean Charles Athanase Peltier and Baltic German physicist Thomas Johann Seebeck. Joule heating, the heat that is generated whenever a current is passed through a resistive material, is related, though it is not generally termed a thermoelectric effect. The Peltier–Seebeck and Thomson effects are thermodynamically reversible,[1] whereas Joule heating is not.

A junction of different metals can transform heat into electricity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQUY_bs59a4

same thing with a PN junction peltier,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvBeCCjb9ds

The relationship of the T-ambient of the peltier effect with the T-ambient of some species of cold electricity remains phenomena.

[DavidE]

THX1138

I ran these test many times and took a measurements before running the test (after the battery had sat for days) and at hourly intervals while running. Like clockwork... the negative terminal became "colder" than the positive terminal.

The battery started out (positive and negative terminal) was identical to the ambient air.

As the circuit ran, the only temperature that changed was the negative terminal. It lowered 1-3 degrees. Power was removed, all temperatures returned to be identical (over the course of the following day). Upon repeating the experiment the same results were observed.

[thx1138]

THX1138

The battery started out (positive and negative terminal) was identical to the ambient air.

As the circuit ran, the only temperature that changed was the negative terminal. It lowered 1-3 degrees. Power was removed, all temperatures returned to be identical (over the course of the following day). Upon repeating the experiment the same results were observed.

That clears it up. Sounds like what has been reported as "cold electricity" to me. I was going to say "cool electricity" because that's not much of a change compared to the icing reported but the icing was on shorted wires which would have a much smaller area and mass than the battery plates attached to the terminal. So I think you're right.

The Peltier and Seebeck effects work at the interface between two different materials. Here we have the plate and the electrolyte. Were these lead acid batteries?

I know that desulfation occurs when using the Bedini machines with lead acid batteries and that ions are released from the plate deposits to recombine with the electrolyte in the desulfation process. I'm wondering if that process is endothermic. The normal discharging and charging that causes the sulfation is exothermic so it seems reasonable that the desulfation would be endothermic to some extent. But I just don't know. Anyone?

[DavidE]

thx1138

Lead Acid batteries.

[Aaron]

Leon Dragone

Might be of interest to Cold Electricity research - http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...magnetism.html

[mikrovolt]

A little more on seebeck nano
Advancement has been made in using semiconductor material for junctions.
It is believed that the geometry of flow and density through the material lattice provides separation.
The resonance is preferred a little higher at the fermi level with nanostructures.
It was found that this resonance is between the occupied and unoccupied states.

In discussing the seebeck effect the challenge has been to adjust the materials so that the electrons (current)
moves along a path (believed to be zig zag) and the phonons (heat) disperse in a highly scattered path if possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...BO0atnVg#t=437

Some devices as a solar application combines PV, TEC and heat exchanger
to heat water. A Chinese technology that is beginning to surface as spin off from space technology.
It can be seen that phonon and electron pathways are handled separately.
This dual path for electrons with charge carriers and alternative path with phonons dissipating a gradient
tend to help each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur..._JXO3_r4#t=802

Cold electricity usually part of a HV tesla experiment with by it's gaseous light effects may still have some
relatioship to the low voltage thermo electric cell. By using specific materials under certain conditions a separation
either by mechanical or nanstructured of the movement of electron with charge carrier and the
phonon (heat) that diffuses thru the material at a slower rate cause one side to draw heat and removing
even more heat from the opposite side (removing heat refers to making it cold).
frozen_ peltier.jpg

[med.3012]

But, cold electricity is nothing more or less than high voltage, low current circuitry.

Hi wayne.ct

i will just focus on the above quoted words, cold electricity form a kind of derivative of Radiant electric energy, the same as electromagnetic waves that induce alternative electric energy, in cold electricity we have to deal with electrostatic induction which is a bit unknown ( at least for me ) so the voltage and current flow perpendicular to each other, this resemble ordinary capacitor if the charges are the voltage the electric field play the role of current, so it's very difficult to measure radiant current since it don't exist on the wire itself but present in the surrounding space!

[thx1138]

thx1138

Lead Acid batteries.

I did a little research. Sulfation is the collection of sulfur from the sulfuric acid electrolyte on the plates in the battery. It has different bonding strengths depending on how long the battery is neglected.

The first level of bonding is weakest and is handled with normal charging and discharging of the battery.

The second level of bonding is stronger and occurs when the battery remains under charged for some period of time. This bonding can be broken with "equalization" charging which is a bit higher voltage than the normal charging routine.

The third level of bonding is stronger yet and occurs when a battery is already at level two and remains in that state for several months. Over time the bonding grows stronger.

Desulfation uses higher voltages to weaken those bonds and cause the sulfur to be released from the plates and recombine with the electrolyte.

An endothermic reaction is one that takes more energy to create than the reaction releases, i.e. it absorbs energy thereby removing heat from the environment in which the reaction takes place.

So if your lead acid batteries had level two or three sulfur bonding I'm guessing it took more energy to weaken those bonds than the bond breaking released which would be endothermic and would account for the slightly cooling terminals.

I'm no chemist so if anyone has more info please inform us.

[thx1138]

"Cold electricity" from demagnetization

This seems very relevant to this thread. The paper at the following link is a bit hard to read because it is English translated from Russian. If I understand it correctly he is saying that demagnetization converts some of the heat energy from the environment to electrical energy and the electricity generated from the demagnetization is larger than the electricity used to create the magnetic field that is collapsing.

Converting heat energy to electricity would be removing heat from the environment, so cooling. As I understand it, it requires very sharp rise and fall times of pulses which is what one would get when shorting two wires together if they were draining capacitors. If it were powerful enough and fast enough it might cause the icing on the wires that was reported.

Inductive conversion of heat environmental energy to electrical energy

[Reiyuki]

This seems very relevant to this thread. The paper at the following link is a bit hard to read because it is English translated from Russian. If I understand it correctly he is saying that demagnetization converts some of the heat energy from the environment to electrical energy and the electricity generated from the demagnetization is larger than the electricity used to create the magnetic field that is collapsing.

Converting heat energy to electricity would be removing heat from the environment, so cooling. As I understand it, it requires very sharp rise and fall times of pulses which is what one would get when shorting two wires together if they were draining capacitors. If it were powerful enough and fast enough it might cause the icing on the wires that was reported.

Inductive conversion of heat environmental energy to electrical energy

Awesome link there, lots of formulas and specifics. Thanks

[mikrovolt]

There are forms of atmospheric cold plasma which is voltage with very little current.
This cold plasma has been useful in sterilizing food and in biomedical surgery.
also
Some of the natural forms of cold electricity manifest in the upper atmosphere
called sprite lightning and elves. These are part of the global electrical circuit.
It has been mentioned that some forms of electrical species disappear in part.
Some think that the missing parts combine into the global electric circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3SkCzMj5g

Like many pieces to a puzzle basic research tries to answer one question at a time.
Finding a unified theory in my opinion will come much later.