Motor Generators

[Quantum_well]

Pmgr, you know as well as me there's only one right way which is a rotary torque sensor and water cooled resistor.
You could conceivably use a motor data sheet but they tend to be a bit optimistic
To make a real bifilar winding two strand magnet wire is available.

[BroMikey]

Or are you wondering if the output of the machine would be more than what it costs to drive the rotor?

there is still a slight increase in drive power compared to having no coils close to the rotor.

So the question remains whether what the coils output is more than that amount of additional load on the rotor.

Maybe you would want to enlighten us ............


BroMikey, I am a builder ......

self-capacitance of a coil is dependent on wiring configuration

There is no clear model for that.

Hence I am interested in knowing how different wiring configurations affect self-capacitance.

Knowing how to design a certain inductance

That can be explained with simple physics.

...

No I am not wondering anything, I built some of these, it is you who is wondering and worried about output and modelling. I suggest you do some building and find out for your self and then these many many questions you are needing an answer for by demanding others spell it all out, will ring clear. I'm trying not to beat you up to badly.

Don't talk, build. I will give you one answer and hopefully you will take my word for it and go build. Here is what I offer. Your question was the same question I had that no one could understand nor took the time to answer. I was years later I answered it for myself.

Here was my question. Input drive draw = X with and without a core in place.

Answer. Negligible increase .00

When I measured the difference of drive input the core barely increased the draw yet had a profound effect when operating as you have been told. There is no need to worry or wonder, now because I just told you.

This data is for a single core. with 12 or 24 cores it will be more. These are cores not connected yet in the open state.

I suggest putting one core at a time and watch how generating power can be done without slowing down the rotor. When I say slowing down the rotor I mean slowing it down enough to increase the amp draw. This is the incorrect state. What we are looking for is a coil a little longer so this does not drive the amps upward.

We are looking for the NULL. The NULL means NULL, no effect on the system.

As I said, this was my question in the beginning years #1 do cores in the open circuit state drag down the rotor = to the recovery when turned on. Answer NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Next question how much? And on we go measuring and speculating but not building, just more modelling.

So start up your rotor and stick a core and coil up to it, and I don't mean a 1/2" gap either or it may as well be a foot. And I don't mean 3/16" neither. Make it tight or she aint gonna feel right.

Building a rotor this close will put you out of this race for sometime. Have fun.

[Turion]

Let me throw out some things I have learned from building the machines I have built.
When a coil (with a core) is introduced to a rotor, the prime mover slows down. With one coil, (and its core) this is barely noticeable. With 4 or more coils (and their cores) it is VERY apparent. This is a (- EFFECT) as far as I am concerned because it affects output. I am adding the ridiculous "and their cores" because bi insists that they are two different things so when I say putting a coil somewhere has a certain effect, he insists that I am wrong because it is the CORE that is having the effect. He is unable to assume that a coil has a core, even though I have stated on multiple occasions that all MY coils have cores in them.

If I build a single strand coil (with a core) that is 3,000 feet long, I can get it to speed up under load, (+ EFFECT) but the required RPM is quite high. By putting a capacitor across that coil, I can bring the rpm down to a reasonable amount, but now I have high voltage and very little amperage. NOT what I am looking for.

I can build a 3 strand coil (with a core) of 1000 feet per strand and my amp draw goes up and the voltage goes down, but with the old rotor I was still at 2800 RPM plus for it to get that (+ EFFECT) of speeding up under load..

When I went to 6 strands in parallel with groups of two connected in series, I got greater amp output as with the previous coil (and its core) and lower voltage output. The required RPM was lower. (+ EFFECT) BUT the amp draw of the prime mover was HIGHER to move the rotor past the coil (and its core) in a NO LOAD situation for some reason (-EFFECT) and the RPM in a NO LOAD situation was decreased. (-EFFECT)

When put under load, the RPM would increase back up to where it was with the 3 strand coil (and its core) of 1,000 feet per strand. I am not an electrical engineer, so I can only go by what I see. I have a vague idea why, but it really doesn't matter to me. It is what it is, and I am looking for effects. That was the "effect" I saw, and what I had to deal with.

As I added more coils (and their cores) I saw that the relationship was not coil (and its core) gives X (- EFFECT) and adding coil 2 (and its core) means the effect is 2X (- EFFECT). I saw that there was a curve, and that each coil (and its core) added increased the (- EFFECT) more than the previous coil (and its core) had. With only four coils (and their cores) on the machine I soon burnt up the MY1016 razor scooter motor I was using as prime mover. I burnt up several. I finally switched to the MY1020 I am using today.

With ZERO coils (and their cores) on my big machine, the amp draw on the MY1020 at 36 volts was 7 amps or 252 watts.

I could get the machine up to speed and THEN start putting coils (and their cores) in place, and the amp draw (with the coils [and their cores] unloaded) would go up to over 27 amps, which is the rated amp draw of the motor. It is rated at 27.5 amps, so I burnt up a few of these motors too, operating on the ragged edge or trying to start it up with too many coils (and their cores) already in place.

But even the MY1020 did NOT have enough power to get the rotor up to speed from a dead stop with all the coils (and their cores) in place. It could only handle about four coils (and their cores), so I developed the use of what I called "neutralizing magnets" to offset the attraction of the rotor magnets to the coil cores.

With the neutralizing magnets in place, I could bring that amp draw of the motor turning the rotor past 12 UNLOADED coils (and their cores) down to 9 amps at speed, but it would still pop up over 30 amps for a split second on start up to get things moving.

It has long been my opinion that "speed up under load" is actually a "return to speed" that you would have seen had the coil (and its core) been simply a single stranded coil (and its core). Tesla style coils (and their cores) bog you down when unloaded and allow you to return to the correct speed and amp draw when loaded. HOWEVER, magnetic neutralization cancels out that negative effect of the Tesla wound coil, (and its core) so if you have neutralized the effect and the motor is operating close to the speed it should have been, when the Tesla style coil (and its core) is put under load, the motor will speed up to an RPM greater than it would have had the coil (and its core) been a single strand coil. (with a core) But I don't want that, because its output isn't as great. I want it to be "null". Neither speeding up nor slowing down the motor.

I am not an electrical engineer. I am a former high school teacher and principal. I see "effects" that take place when I do certain things, and I try to figure out ways to use those effects to my advantage. I don't care about "Laws". I care about results. My machine does what I claim it does because I have seen certain effects and learned how to incorporate them into the working design of my generator.

Thane may have discovered many incredible things about these kind of coils that I am unaware of because I do not follow his work. What I have seen is that they have a NEGATIVE effect when unloaded. and that when loaded, that negative effect goes away. I look at it like this

As far as input to the prime mover goes:

Standard coil (and its core) is at -0- when unloaded
When Loaded it goes NEGATIVE because of increased amp draw on the motor and decreased RPM. This is NOT APPARENT with only one coil (and its core), but add 10 more coils (and their cores) and tell me it isn't happening. And each coil (and its core) moves you MORE into the negative than the one before it.

Tesla wound coil (and its core) starts you out in the NEGATIVE compared to where a standard coil (and its core) starts you out.
When loaded you move to -0- BUT, to move you to the -0- point it had to speed up, which means less output as a generator coil than it is capable of
So while under load there is NO increased amp draw on the motor and NO decrease in rpm

The output of the two coils (and their cores) in watts is the same (SHOWN IN THE DEBUNKER VIDEO)

Tesla wound coil (and its core) with magnetic neutralization in place is -0-
When loaded (and balanced properly) you remain at -0-
No increased amp draw and no decrease in motor RPM

BUT, it has MORE OUTPUT in the Neutral position than EITHER of the other two examples.. These kind of coils ALWAYS put out the most when they are in the 'NULL" position, and that output is GREATER than a "standard coil" because they have a GRTEATER CAPACITANCE. That is why I am so careful NOT to let my coils speed up under load. I want their greatest output as generator coils.

The best a "speed up under load coil" is going to get you is the SAME amp draw and the SAME RPM of the prime mover as a standard coil which is NOT UNDER LOAD. and the SAME output as a standard coil. And with each additional coil that amp draw is going to get greater and the RPM is going to go down, UNLESS you use "Speed up under load to "neutralize" it, (YOU CAN) and sacrifice output as a generator coil in the process. The more you 'speed up" the less you generate. You can't have both.

That is why I am unclear about the advantages of "regenerative acceleration" that Thane talks about. I haven't studied it AT ALL.

With the addition of magnetic neutralization you get LESS amp draw and GREATER rpm of the prime mover, and you can add as many coils as you want and all you do is increase the output.That is why I have gone the direction I have gone.

Thane may have found a way around all these issues. I have no idea. I do not follow his work. bro Mikey will know way more about Thane than I will ever know.

[pmgriphone]

Wow BroMikey, why all that negative energy? We are all here to share and help each other. And btw. I am not demanding anything from anyone. I have read the complete thread and watched ALL of Dave's videos. So I asks questions if something is not clear to me. If that is not allowed, I will stop asking and just read the posts instead.

And if you managed to build all of this without power draw on the drive, why did you stop building/researching the machine years ago? If I may ask of course as that is another question

[BroMikey]

why all that negative energy?

I have read the complete thread
If that is not allowed,

why did you stop building/researching the machine years ago?

What negative energy? Who stopped? Instructing those who ramble on to build is a good thing.
Where is your build? I have done my share. Where is your setup.

Why are you attacking the people here and this project? Negative energy? Here is your list of demands.

#1 Give me this measurement and that one knowing what you will suggest next

#2 Are we all afraid that the input is less than the output, is this why we don't answer your questions?

#3 Why is building stopped? Knowing it has not.

What kind of a fool do you take me for? I'll bet your golf sucks

Suggesting you build instead of projecting fixed viewpoints all over these entries is the best thing for you. Show me a nice rotor with tight tolerances. Or am I the bad guy for pointing you in the right direction?

#4 wow Mikey is the Villain?

#5 Shame on me for all this negative energy?

Grow a pair and man up It's the machine or endless chatter.

[Turion]

The one amp meter I ordered to measure the output of my coils is DC. Duh. I ordered an AC one today as well as tons of small caps and an adjustable cap to do coil testing. I also got 4 T handle Allen wrenches to make the adjustment on the opposition magnets. Hopefully sometime in the next week the two motors I’m having 5/8” sleeves put on will be ready and at that point all I will need is wire to wind different test coils and I have enough to do a few. So I am closing in on this project and getting closer to finishing my remodel. I’m gettin more excited every day.

[BroMikey]

https://contest.techbriefs.com/2020/...ortation/10086

[alexelectric]

https://www.slideshare.net/PDiCEOTha...eans-164624806

[Quantum_well]

Hi, I joined Overunity.com on April 8th 2005. Thane Heins was touting his idea then and all these years later still nothing!

[Quantum_well]

Are patents all they're cracked up to be? Screenshot_20210409-135813_Chrome~2.jpg

[Quantum_well]

PDI.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ufkKgvO8iMwnMe

[BroMikey]

Are patents all they're cracked up to be? Screenshot_20210409-135813_Chrome~2.jpg

[BroMikey]

https://www.thestar.com/business/200...ntor_says.html

It all began back in 1985, when Thane Heins, having studied electronics at Heritage College in Gatineau, Quebec, started thinking about how magnets could be used to improve power generators.

But it wasn't until after the 9/11 attacks that he started seriously experimenting in his basement, motivated by the desire to reduce our dependence on oil and the countries that back terrorism.

Heins tinkered away, making what seemed like good progress, until one day in early 2006 he stumbled on to something strange. As part of a test, he had connected the driveshaft of an electric motor to a steel rotor with small round magnets lining its outer edges. The idea was that as the rotor spun, the magnets would pass by a wire coil placed just in front of them to generate electrical energy – in other words, it would operate like a simple generator.

The voltage was there, but to get current he had to attach an electrical load to the coil – like a light bulb – or simply overload it, which would cause it to slow down and eventually stop. Heins did the latter, but instead of stopping, the rotor started to rapidly accelerate.

"The magnets started flying off and hitting the wall, and I had to duck for cover," says Heins, surprised because he was using a weak motor. "It was like, holy crap, this is really scary."


By overloading the generator, the current should have caused the coil to build up a large electromagnetic field. This field typically creates an effect called "Back EMF," described as Lenz's law in physics, which would act to repel the approaching magnets on the rotor and slow down the motor until it stopped. Some call it the law of diminishing returns, or a law of conservation.

"Lenz's law is essentially magnetic friction, which is a form of resistance not unlike the wind resistance your car experiences when driving down the highway," explains Heins. More friction means more power is necessary to maintain a constant speed.


Instead, the opposite happened. Somehow the magnetic friction had turned into a magnetic boost. Back to the car analogy, it's like the wind moving from the front to the back of the vehicle................................

https://www.thestar.com/business/200...ntor_says.html

[BroMikey]

2hrs ago

Regen motor accelerates the bike more and at the same time recharging the battery bank fully at 13 amps, all going down the road

[Quantum_well]

Nothing to show after 35 years, not a very good sign.
That video was terrible, you could not hear a word with that motor screaming away.
To demonstrate how sad it is he says it puts almost 13 amps in to the battery.
Here is a real world controller spec, see the amps and that's with 72v.
I will agree that you could recharge a battery and use it at the same time but it would deplete quickly.

Screenshot_20210411-112233_Chrome~2.jpg