Motor Generators

[Quantum_well]

They're nasty criminals bro, out to fraud people out of their hard-earned.

[BroMikey]

In search of options and solutions to the generation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRDtL4X3ggM


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[alexelectric]

There is much to study and learn, try and experience

[alexelectric]

Look what I wanted to ask about Mr. Morin

You no longer have new videos

When Mr. Morin popularized the washing machine motor to power a generator, then he asked me and I had in mind, he was going to run into the Lenz of the generator, and so it was, at least in all the videos I have seen of him, he did not reach the speed 3000 rpm I wanted to be able to generate power, much less with the generator under load.

Other experimenters who replicated his project, using the motor and good controllers, did not reach the speed and decreased under load, I remember one experimenter showed all the details, he had all the very professional equipment, but with a conventional generator the lenz demanded more energy, I suggested to him in the comments that he switch to another type of generation, and I wonder which ones? I suggested that he build one with bifilar coils, I showed him the different proposals of the experimenters, and it seemed good to him, and that he would try with this new proposal .

I remember when Mr. Morin participated in this forum, I was aware from the beginning that he would not achieve his goal of his project of running a conventional generator with a washing machine motor, and obtain his energy gain according to Mr. Morin. raised, do not comment on clarifying where it would have its fault, I was prudent, because I did not want to bother those who followed him.

But I would not be surprised if Mr. Morín returns with a generator with lag coils from the lenz.

But if we use the washing machine motor to move a generator built with high impedance coils (multi-wire bifilar) it would be something else.

From all the videos we have something to learn, from the conventional generators some users show it and share it in this forum to deny the work of those who are working with bifilar coils, in my case I can show it from anyone, study it or learn it.


Much is required of Mr. Dave's project, let him work, experiment, build him to learn from his successes and mistakes, in the end he will reach a result, and if it is favorable in any way there will be people who will not accept it. The best thing is to build a prototype and test the results yourself, in my case I am with Mr. Dave's proposal, I have tested the coil and it has the effects that you describe in your project, and why does it present those effects, that's it of more super explained, and they will keep asking, questioning. Mr. Dave's work is a workshop job in a home, he is not in a large laboratory or in an industry, he does not have all those resources of the industrialists, but if he has all the enthusiasm, I encourage you to build, look for and try different things , has the will to effort and perseverance to experiment, has the ability to work and build new things, despite the limitations that may arise.



It is good that it continues to advance and that it will present it at the conference, it is one more goal that Mr. Dave has, who will present a video to us next week, I give my healthy opinion, it should not show things until the conference, But he has a great sense of sharing his achievements, but it is better to reserve it for those who are with his project, it does not make sense for now to show it to those who deny everything without experimenting.

In the work of bifilar coils for power generation as Mr. Dave's project is not the only one, I have friends in other countries who are working with their bifilar coils with other configurations, and they are having very good results, there are already more experimenters who are studying and working with such coils.

[Quantum_well]

Would anyone agree that if you got your acceleration under load anywhere under the black dotted line it is just considered as normal generator operation?
It's interesting to see how the different generator configurations compare. The EE comes out the poorest. Screenshot_20210331-210744_Chrome~2.jpg

[Quantum_well]

DFIG = Doubly fed induction generator SCIG =Squirrel cage induction generator.
The optimum configuration is the mid speed PMSG.

[Turion]

Alex,
The more strands you have in parallel connected in series, the lower the RPM at which the effect occurs. But it will occur with a single strand coil at high enough RPM. And it will occur with ANY coil that has the correct capacitor in parallel with it.

But remember. When you connect a load to the coil, you are putting that load in series with the coil and that changes its capacitance and CAN definitely change the frequency at which the effect takes place, depending on the load. My current machine has an even number of magnets on the rotor and an odd number of coils, so only one pair of coils (one on each side of the rotor across from each other) is “energized” at the same time. One of the experiments I have wanted to do is to put a second pair of coils in series with these two coils, doubling the capacitance, and see what it does to the amp draw of the motor, the RPM of the motor and the output of the coil. The second pair of coils COULD be another pair on the machine or another pair simply sitting beside it. What effect will this have on required RPM? How is it different than just adding a capacitor? I have no idea. What happens when I put a coil that is exactly the same as (in resonance with) one of the generator coils right next to it? What output do I get out of that coil, even though it is not electrically (physically) connected to the machine. I have lots of questions that still need to be answered, which is why I brought this here in the first place, hoping to get the help of other researchers. Instead I have to deal with people like bi who contribute nothing to the forward progress. And no one has replicated a complete machine because it is too expensive. At least until recently. Now there are five machines that are complete and in operation. If you count mine and the pathetic amount of time I have to spend on it.

[alexelectric]

Mr dave

That's right, as you comment if you put the coils in series you increase the impedance and change the frequency at which it should come into resonance, I know another experimenter who is working with coils with only two wires, has 6 coils connected in series and works around of 1800 rpm, because it uses only two wires per coil, and to have the acceleration effect you have to connect several coils in series, there are several configurations that one can experiment, the critical thing is to have the right coils and their configuration.

From what Mr. Dave comments, to put another coil next to the one that is being induced and presenting the acceleration, which will happen with the second coils, we can have estimates of what can happen, but the most practical and see what happens by testing it experimentally, but if your idea is interesting, I understand what happens to us that we have a whole host of ideas and projects, and we wonder what happens if I do this, if I put that, there are many things that one wants to experience, and they are born to us new ideas.

I am glad that you continue to advance in your project, my recommendation is that you complete it as you have planned, have your results and evaluations, you have to close that cycle to move on to another, you will be able to make improvements or try other things.

Another healthy recommendation, you no longer spent commenting on those who do not estimate your results and conclusions of your project Mr. Dave, he has already given his reasoning enough, he has explained and shown them why the operation of the generator, for me it does not make sense keep commenting on them, keep up your research, take the quizzes and videos, and show them at the conference, and after that show them here in the forum, and you Mr. Dave have informed us quite a bit about your generation project.

And something that I repeat again, Mr. Dave is required and demanded a lot about his project, but keep in mind that he is working in a home workshop, he is not in a large laboratory, he is not in an industrial laboratory, he does not have A team of consultants working with great resources from the industrialists, they are simply in their valuable home workshop, I say valuable because with all their will and commitment they are building, experimenting, with their available resources, and according to their capacity they advance, they should assess all progress of independent researchers.

I am with his project proposal, to confirm the concepts, since I finish going to carry out other tests, every project is subject to be improved.

Few have the will and resources to carry out the projects, there are so many things to experience.

A question Mr. Dave, in my coils I have the 12-wire configuration, 4-wire connections in series, which result in 3 in parallel, I have made the connections with two plastic plates, I use this connection element because it makes it easier for me to do the changes, but I remember that one time I commented that when connecting with connection plates the coil lost the acceleration effect, is what I would like to know, how to make the connections, if you solder them directly on the inputs and outputs of the coils or how make the connections.

[Turion]

Alex,
I am glad you bring up this issue with connections because it has also happened to me, and it took me some time to figure out what the issue was. I use the connectors shown in the attached pictures. The single connectors are more expensive, but I bought a bunch in bulk and have a box of them. With the multiple wire connector I put the wires in the SAME SIDE of the connector so that one screw holds down both (all) of the connecting wires. The other side is empty. And I make sure one wire is crossing over the top of the other when I tighten it down so that the connection is made between the wires independently of the connecting device. When I had the problem, I found that even though my meter showed continuity between the screw on one side and the screw on the other, if I connected the coil output to two screws on one side and the load to two screws on the other, the load would SOMETIMES not light up. I know that Peter Lindemann has advised against changing metals in your circuits for that very reason, but had not run across it until that incident. And I have seen it one or two times since. I finally started making my connections so I don't have to worry about that. But it happens so seldom I don't think about it anymore. It is just something that I do automatically in my circuits. Amazon carries both kinds of connectors I showed here, or at least they used to. I have enough for any project I dream up.

I appreciate your advice on dealing with the likes of bi and others. It will save me time, something I value greatly right now. They can do their own experiments or wait until the conference. I will be posting more videos as I move forward, but that's it. And no videos of total output vs input until after the conference. Anything I can assist builders with, I will be happy to do what I can.

[pmgriphone]

Alex,
The more strands you have in parallel connected in series, the lower the RPM at which the effect occurs. But it will occur with a single strand coil at high enough RPM. And it will occur with ANY coil that has the correct capacitor in parallel with it.

But remember. When you connect a load to the coil, you are putting that load in series with the coil and that changes its capacitance and CAN definitely change the frequency at which the effect takes place, depending on the load. My current machine has an even number of magnets on the rotor and an odd number of coils, so only one pair of coils (one on each side of the rotor across from each other) is “energized” at the same time. One of the experiments I have wanted to do is to put a second pair of coils in series with these two coils, doubling the capacitance, and see what it does to the amp draw of the motor, the RPM of the motor and the output of the coil. The second pair of coils COULD be another pair on the machine or another pair simply sitting beside it. What effect will this have on required RPM? How is it different than just adding a capacitor? I have no idea. What happens when I put a coil that is exactly the same as (in resonance with) one of the generator coils right next to it? What output do I get out of that coil, even though it is not electrically (physically) connected to the machine. I have lots of questions that still need to be answered, which is why I brought this here in the first place, hoping to get the help of other researchers. Instead I have to deal with people like bi who contribute nothing to the forward progress. And no one has replicated a complete machine because it is too expensive. At least until recently. Now there are five machines that are complete and in operation. If you count mine and the pathetic amount of time I have to spend on it.

The resonance frequency is given by f=1/((2*pi*sqrt(L*C)). When you put two coils in parallel, L->0.5*L, C->2*C, so the resonance frequency remains the same (maybe slightly different as R->0.5*R. For two coils in seris, L->2*L and C->0.5*C, so again resonance frequency remains the same, or maybe slightly detuned as R->2*R.

Btw. the reason that you can "negate" Lenz at resonance is because the LC series or parallel resonance has a 180deg phase shift at that resonance.

[Turion]

The resonance frequency is given by f=1/((2*pi*sqrt(L*C)). When you put two coils in parallel, L->0.5*L, C->2*C, so the resonance frequency remains the same (maybe slightly different as R->0.5*R. For two coils in seris, L->2*L and C->0.5*C, so again resonance frequency remains the same, or maybe slightly detuned as R->2*R.

If I understand what you are saying, you are stating that what I said about adding a load (like a motor, which contains coils as windings) ) is incorrect and adding it would NOT change the resonant frequency of the coil? If so, that is extremely good news. It is something I have worried about, and have not had time to experiment with, so I have warned people that it is a problem. If I am reading your statement correctly, it is NOT a problem, you have taken a big weight off my mind.

Btw. the reason that you can "negate" Lenz at resonance is because the LC series or parallel resonance has a 180deg phase shift at that resonance.

So would you agree with the statement made by the EE I quoted? Where he says:
"the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all."

Whether I am reading the wrong meaning into what you posted or not, I appreciate the input, but this is what I have based my research on:
The self resonant frequency of an inductor is the frequency at which the parasitic capacitance of the inductor resonates with the ideal inductance of the inductor resulting in an extremely high impedance. At this frequency the device looks like an open circuit. EVEN when it is under load. If I am incorrect, I will take my medicine like a man.

[pmgriphone]

If I understand what you are saying, you are stating that what I said about adding a load (like a motor, which contains coils as windings) ) is incorrect and adding it would NOT change the resonant frequency of the coil? If so, that is extremely good news. It is something I have worried about, and have not had time to experiment with, so I have warned people that it is a problem. If I am reading your statement correctly, it is NOT a problem, you have taken a big weight off my mind.




So would you agree with the statement made by the EE I quoted? Where he says:
"the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all."

Whether I am reading the wrong meaning into what you posted or not, I appreciate the input, but this is what I have based my research on:
The self resonant frequency of an inductor is the frequency at which the parasitic capacitance of the inductor resonates with the ideal inductance of the inductor resulting in an extremely high impedance. At this frequency the device looks like an open circuit. EVEN when it is under load. If I am incorrect, I will take my medicine like a man.

What i was saying is that if your current generator coils are in resonance (which they should be if you don't have any Lenz drag), then putting two IDENTICAL generator coils (with same L and C) in series or parallel won't make a difference for the resonance frequency (and thus motor speed at which they become resonant).

Adding a motor would add some random inductance/capacitance which will throw things off. So best to use a resistive load (a resistive load will also most likely detune the resonance, but not as bad as a coil or cap). Alternatively, you could try a rectifier bridge with a large cap and resistive load in parallel with the cap.

Your statement about self-resonance is partially correct. At self resonance, the inductive effect (L) and the capacitance effect (C) cancel, so the circuit neither acts as an inductance and neither as a capacitor. It acts as a resistor (where the resistance is that of the coil wire). So the circuit acts as a short circuit with some wire resistance for series LC circuit. For a parallel LC circuit it acts as high impedance, so high resistance.

Read over this Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit

It discusses both series and parallel resonance as well as resonant frequency.

[pmgriphone]

Turion,

Another thing you should do is take one of your generator coil off of the machine and measure its resistance, its inductance and its capacitance. Then post them here and I will do some resonance calulations.

Make sure to measure without any magnets nearby.

[Turion]

Do I need the core in place to take that measurement, or can it be taken without a core? Is it just the "wire" that allows for resonance? Because I see it happening at DIFFERENT RPM's when I switch from ferrite to iron cores, and I assumed it was because the core material accepted the flux at a different "finite" rate. I know an air core coil has a different RPM also. At least that is what I see on the bench.

So far, using 200 watt light bulbs as my resistive loads has not detuned the resonance of the coil at the correct RPM, but I have been thinking that there has to be a way to adjust the RPM of the rotor to stay in continuous resonance as the load changes. Either that or some kind of adjustable capacitor in parallel with the coil. Definitely not my area of expertise, but something to think about for the future if I don't want constant loads of the same value.

[alexelectric]

So far, using 200 watt light bulbs as my resistive loads has not detuned the resonance of the coil at the correct RPM, but I have been thinking that there has to be a way to adjust the RPM of the rotor to stay in continuous resonance as the load changes. Either that or some kind of adjustable capacitor in parallel with the coil. Definitely not my area of expertise, but something to think about for the future if I don't want constant loads of the same value.

I also estimate how generation can be maintained at a variable load, since every generator requires different consumption during its operation.

These details mentioned and that are presented, I believe that the prototype is already well with a stable load, and when tested it is working as expected, it has to go on to do the tests of how to have the generation for variable loads.

The project is fine, first to test the generation without opposition to braking when the Lenz is presented, and then to find out how to solve the detail of the variable load, I think it has to be done in steps.

The load affects the established impedance, and affects the rpm, here if it would have to be adjusted to the rpm, I think that it would already have to be operated by means of sensors and automatic adjustments by electronic means, but one can estimate things from different ways, and to know what works, you have to carry out tests, and if it is a lot of work, I think you would have to form a work team.

Mr. Dave is going well with your project, rest and then you will have more time to improve it.