Motor Generators

[voltan]

hi all. i’ve watched a heap of youtube clips of different pulse motors, and there appears to be very few builds that utilise stators with flux switching. eg extended cores with a PM and a coil, with the open core gap sitting over the edge of the rotor with PM’s in the rotor set up in an axial configuration. i’m also unsure if p j kelly covered this combination.
after having a quick play around with extended cores i suspect that too much magnetic strength is lost doing it like this.
so if i may ask a couple of questions is my assumption correct that core losses is why builders don’t do it like that and have any builders on here had success with pulse motors using flux switching stator elements.
cheers.

[BroMikey]

hi all.

core losses is why builders don’t do it like that and have any builders on here had success with pulse motors using flux switching stator elements.
cheers.

Switching should take away BEMF and use this same BEMF to assist the motor or generator action. If this does not make things clear, let us know. Lenz law/BEMF is the enemy of increased COP so switch should stop this negative work. Or turn the switch on after TDC

Do you understand TDC?

[Turion]

bro,
First of all, that's not a correct use of the word "misnomer." Second, what responsibility won't I shoulder? Thirdly, you're an idiot. I'm getting tired of you attacking me with one breath and then kissing my butt with the next. Make up your mind. You've had years to show us a build, and so far all we have seen is a single rotor with a single coil, and a whole lot of you tube videos of other people's work. Don't you think it's about time YOU 'shouldered some responsibility'? BUILD something. I have work to do and no time for this nonsense. I will present at the conference. you have a nice day now. Oh, and since you've "blocked me" you won't even see this now will you? LOL

[voltan]

thanks bromikey. tdc is poles face to face yeah, the turning point between attraction and repulsion.

[voltan]

the reason why i brought it up is that it occurred to me this morning that a pulse motor could have 2 or more PM’s on the rotor say all north facing out radially, and the stator could have a PM element that always repels the rotor pm’s and a cored coil element positioned to deal with 1 rotor pm each simultaneously, sort of a hybrid stator.
one strategy to try would be to energise the coil to attract its rotor pm with equal force to the stator pm’s repelling force on its rotor pm, thereby neutralising cogging or with more voltage applied to the coil assisting the rotor with a net attraction
on the approach to tdc.
then at tdc either switch off or apply reverse polarity voltage to the coil to repel the rotor.
to switch off the power at tdc and if necessary block generator effect current( proper bemf) would appear to make the repulsion event lenz free but the force on the rotor would be pm to pm repulsion on one side and pm to coil core attraction on the other side,(i’m not sure if that still gives a net force on the rotor, something i should evaluate asap). alternatively applying a reverse polarity voltage to the coil could be set to negate the attraction to the coil core or be increased to more actively repel the rotor simultaneously with the pm stator. maybe have the stator pm mounted on a thread for adjustment of the air gap for balance or bias with the coil element of the stator.
there might be other options worth exploring.
if a stator coil and stator pm aren’t far apart maybe extending the core to join the two could offer increased efficiency partially by containing the magnetic flux off the backs of both stator elements. hope all that makes sense without any images. i can make a drawing and take a photo of it if it helps.
cheers.

[voltan]

thinking about this further as a concept i’m concerned about gen effect on approach to tdc as it already requires x amount of current in the coil to counter the repulsion on the pm side of the stator,(attraction between the rotor pm and the coil core assists with that requirement tho), but as rpm increases so does bemf. maybe that’s where you pay for lenz reduction after tdc if there is any?
also it could get complex to calibrate if the stator pm is strong enough to influence other pm’s on the rotor besides the target.
or maybe them forces will balance out?bearings would need to be sturdy as there would be cyclical side forces on the rotor.so it could be a bit rough and noisy?
and apologies for posting a heap of speculation and guesswork before proofing the concept but thought this approach to de cogging might at least be a helpfull suggestion for Turion to try with the battle with burned out motors due to generator cogging on startup. maybe a brief period of current applied a certain way could reduce the grief. i might be presuming a lot dave. i know ya been doin this for a long time and you probably tried schemes like this.
anyway enough waffling.

[BroMikey]

Turion to try with the battle with burned out motors due to generator cogging on startup. maybe a brief period of current applied a certain way could reduce the grief. i might be presuming a lot dave. i know ya been doin this for a long time and you probably tried schemes like this.
anyway enough waffling.

Dave has said he has not tried everything so great work Voltan. We need fresh new young blood. Guys like Dave are spending all their time fixing toilets and or remodeling when saving the world is all he talks about. Your entries are worth noting but don't expect Dave to acknowledge them, he is only all about himself. I found that out years ago so you keep right on dreaming Voltan.

Don't be afraid of Dave, he, otherwise is the nicest guy you find on the web. I work him over now and then so he gets rid of that chip on his shoulder. He is getting better/tougher. Anyway Dave we all love ya.

Now back to reading your new possible setup. Hey Voltan are you equipped with any milling machines or have access because I have found that as you put more coils and more magnets the experiment fails for lack of accuracy. But I am not sure on your spacing design. Do you have a picture? Don't worry about blowing Dave's skirt up over his head he is that easy to distress. I'll read it again.

[BroMikey]

thinking about this further.......

but as rpm increases so does bemf. maybe that’s where you pay for lenz reduction after tdc if there is any?
also it could get complex to calibrate if the stator pm is strong enough to influence other pm’s on the rotor besides the target.

or maybe them forces will balance out?bearings would need to be sturdy as there would be cyclical side forces on the rotor.so it could be a bit rough and noisy?

maybe a brief period of current applied a certain way could reduce the grief.

Yes I like the part here about the grief and this is exactly what the Adams motor uses. And other pulse motors or generators. With advanced electronix today we should easily be able to whip up add on circuits that will improve things yet again. Have you ever built any rotors?

[BroMikey]

100% I believe it and I have done something similar or same, hard to tell as I cannot see what Bob is doing.

Dave Wing

Originally posted by Turion View Post

Anyone here who knows Bob French should ask him to update the folks on the forum on his motor running between the positives. He is right in the middle of a project to enter a contest for a significant amount of money, so he may not have time, but it is worth it to understand what he is doing.

His primary batteries are holding, or going down very, VERY slowly while his secondary batteries show gains of +40 times the losses in the primaries.

Now here is what I say, bulzhit. Dave had me build circuits and then when I spend thousands on the right everything including batteries he ignored me completely. He showed no respect for my work. These were 3 battery circuits of many types, many converters and so forth. Dave himself has never shown a circuit one tho he claims to know how to get huge COP's. Then he will come on here and say he didn't want to tell everyone he had it working when he did not so he is quiet. Double speak is manipulation.

Dave is goofing with you and if you build it he will not help you tune it or even show you his circuit. Dave is the leading most authority on 3 battery circuits but has never shown a working example over 99%

It is the same with all him projects. Do not listen to him, he is leading you to a dead end and you will waste your money like I did. Now I have all this money tied up and no example to follow. But I need to find BOB? Bullzhit. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to see it work. Over the years no one has a working unit to show over 110%

Unless you can find one example of a working circuit you are on a dead end road that will bring you back to Dave, begging for direction at which time you will be ignored. I know because I am currently at a stand still. He doesn't have one either. Dave will not respond. Dave did this with the Tesla switch years ago, dead end, no one had one other than John Bedini. John showed his.

Then when you question him he feels cornered and begins revolting, name calling and so on. He has some really bad hang ups controlling the narrative on energy stuff. This is one of many examples as to why I stopped listening to Dave and stopped following his projects. If you want to take a chance, fine, maybe the motor generator? We will see if he can produce.

[voltan]

Have you ever built any rotors?

Last edited by BroMikey; Today, 12:20 AM.

nup not even a lid motor. my go used to be making brushless fans like modified computer fans and rewired rc 3phase hobby motors go using 1 or 2 mini isolation transformers that sense and switch a transistor off the same coil/s that are being driven. i see blokes like lidmotor have been running a 2 transistor circuit for years now to achieve the same thing. also familiar with a neat bifllar JT or motor winding circuit that sends collapsing field spikes neatly back to the source or into a small cap that runs the drive coil by itself until it’s voltage drops down to source.
but i haven’t even got a drill press to make accurate perpendicular holes with.
cheers.

[Turion]

voltan,
Watch the videos I did on the building of my generator. They are step by step. Here is video # 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-NGOO_21l0&t=48s

As you will see, I have a rotor with coils on both sides of the rotor. When a magnet on the rotor is aligned between two coils, the magnet on the opposite side of the rotor is aligned between two adjustable magnets that are in repulsion to the rotor magnets.

The rotor magnets are attracted to the coil cores and want to "lock up" on them. But the repulsion magnets will not allow that to happen when adjusted properly. They balance the attraction with a repulsive force. This is basically what you seem to be proposing. It does work. I've been doing it for years.

bro,
The 3 battery stuff is only to prove a single concept. That SOME of the energy put through the load from the two primary batteries to the third battery can be recovered.
Then we took it a step further. The energy from ONE battery into a boost module (set to 26 volts) connected normally, and from the positive of the boost module through the load to the positive of the only battery you have in your circuit. That is an "electrical loop." I showed both these thing years ago on the "Basic Free Energy Device" Forum. In fact, we showed TOO MUCH, which is why I killed that thread.

Neither of these circuits is OU. They show that energy CAN BE RECOVERED. THAT'S IT. And that's probably as far as YOU got. It is what you DO with that load that matters. You have to be smart enough to use the energy to create some energy. Other people have done it I'm not the only one.

If I put 100 watts into the circuit and use that 100 watts to produce 80 watts by running a motor that is turning a Lenz free generator that generates 80 watts, I'm losing money. I lost 20 watts. But if I can input 100 watts to turn a motor/generator that creates 80 watts PLIUS recover 80% of the energy I put in, I'm ahead of the game. Is that possible? You damn betcha it is.

There are MANY ways to use the input energy to create energy and still recover 80% of it. Just because I didn't hold your hand to figure any of them out is not my fault. A motor turning a Lenz free single coil generator is a no brainer. But there are a few others that I can think of off the top of my head. I KNOW you had a motor running between the positives. Did you bother to hook it to a generating rotor? Did you bother to wind Lenz free coils? I know you know how. Did you bother to send the output of the generator THROUGH a load back to the battery to keep it charged up? If you do you have BOTH the energy that is put into the motor going THROUGH it into the battery and the energy from the generator put THROUGH the load back to the battery, and you have a decent chance of keeping it charged if it is the right kind of battery. You haven't done ANY of these things, yet you blame ME for your lack of effort?

And you lie about the Tesla switch. I never did ANY public presentations on the Tesla Switch, nor claimed to have a working one. I had a working one one that I built with Matt Jones' help, YEARS ago, but I never presented any information about how to build it. In fact, I built FOUR different ones. But only ONE of them worked. The one Matt helped me with. If you think no one had one other than John Bedini, you are incorrect. I know of at least TWO people who have built working Tesla switches. Matt Jones built a big commercial one based on the Benitez patents and was under an NDA for many years. An EE friend of his, with some help from Matt, built one that is far better than anything Matt had done at the time. The Benitez Tesla switch works. I'v seen it. I have video of it running. I won't show it. It is not mine to show. But SOLAR is cheaper to run your house on than the DOUBLE sized bank of batteries you would need to send power back and forth to power a house in a Tesla switch configuration. Matt was willing to help me build one for my house, but after talking it over, I decided not to.

The 3 battery stuff and the Tesla switch both use the concept of running between the positives and recovering SOME of what you put through the load. But until you use your head to create some energy with the load, you will NEVER go OU. At least not with those kinds of potential based systems. At least not that I KNOW how to do. Others may know way more than I do.

But what I talked about is all Bob French is doing. Using a small pulse motor that already has magnets on it, run between the positives, and draws almost NOTHING, while using the rotor magnets (of the pulse motor) to also generate electricity from an air core generator coil that is sent THROUGH a load to the battery. (Potential difference AGAIN) The generated power helps keep the battery charged, and the small load is run between the positives. Get a clue dude. None of this is rocket science. You should have had it YEARS ago. By the way, it appears you also LIED about blocking me since you read what I posted.

We talked about ALL this stuff on the other threads. We also said the correct batteries make all the difference. A small proof of concept is EASY to build using the old plastic Bedini 5 coil. Or any pulse motor where you can get some output from a coil as a generator coil. But you need to understand the TIME Bob put into his build. He is putting the MINIMUM power into the system he possibly can, to get it to work, while still generating enough power to light a bulb and between the generator coil and his battery. You can't just slap something together and expect it to work. But, hey, you might get lucky.

[BroMikey]

Have you ever built any rotors?

Last edited by BroMikey; Today, 12:20 AM.

making brushless fans like modified computer fans and rewired rc 3phase hobby motors go using 1 or 2 mini isolation transformers that sense and switch a transistor off the same coil/s that are being driven.

but i haven’t even got a drill press to make accurate perpendicular holes with.
cheers.

That is great, I think a rewind is possible with regular motors. Thx Voltan, keep going.

Dave yes I see your endless posts but I am not reading them anymore after 7 years. I already know I will get nothing from you so it is not worth my time. I start readings and get a sick feeling. So I peek in but will continue to block you in general, ya know day to day. Bypassing all of the biting.

My problem. Also I am making plans to setup machining which is key to continuing design replications.
I will keep everyone updated. Even you. To me you are insincere, just my personal view. I hope you do well at the conference.

[voltan]

here’s a depiction of my concept.
my thinking is instead of a flux switching magnet and coil within an extended core as a stator element, pic 2, maybe the same manipulation can be achieved with 2 stator elements 1 a pm and the other a cored coil. pic 1.
so on approach to tdc the top rotor pm is attracted to the core. the bottom rotor pm is repelled by the pm in the stator.
by applying x amount of current to the coil to increase the attraction on the upper rotor magnet either so it matches the repulsion down the bottom or with still more current to put some attraction on the rotor.
then after tdc either stop all current in the coil and let the repulsion down the bottom over power the attraction to the core, or actively reverse the polarity in the coil and apply x amount of current to push on the upper rotor pm in sync with the repulsion down the bottom.
it’s probably not going to achieve any better a result than any other design. i just thought a hybrid stator is a bit novel and although there wouldn’t be much net force on the rotor it appears to be lenz free after tdc if no current flows through the coil, but it could well be that you pay for that somewhere else like on approach somehow. maybe a small gen coil located after tdc during that brief lenzless period can siphon off a little bit of power, but then it wouldn’t be lenzless?
cheers.

[Turion]

bro,
So you're blocking me, but peeking in to read every post. That makes SO much sense. And you're complaining about the amount of money YOU invested? In what, three batteries, a motor and a couple boost modules? Wow! You will NEVER get to use those batteries again for any other project will you? A total waste of money! And a boost module costs what, $5.00? LOL. You're whining because you weren't spoon fed the solutions. You've been given two of the three secrets to free energy
1. Run EVERYTHING between the positives to recover energy
2. Run EVERYTHING in an electrical loop back to the source battery
3. The third one is using the energy going through the "load" to generate more power. (still run that power back to the primary battery) A pulse motor (the load) with several coils where SOME of the coils are dedicated to electrical generation does that. It just isn't the most efficient. You want more efficient? Invest the time and money that I have. Or keep whining. I really don't care. But don't claim you were left out on a limb. Bob French had the SAME information you did, and has it working. I had it working YEARS ago. Matt had it working YEARS ago. The video I POSTED AT THE TIME WITH SCHEMATICS of Matt running a small motor with a 555 timer to make it a "pulse" motor turning a rotor with TWO magnets on it past a coil with 3 strands of 1.000 feet of wire wound in parallel but connected in series, produced MORE output than was input, and was the reason I built my generator in the FIRST place. HE SHOWED the inputs and the outputs in the video. I know of at least three other people on this forum, one of whom contributed recently, that has potential difference stuff working also. That you DON'T is no one else's fault but yours.

I don't want you "following my work." I have no "work." I have nothing more I am willing to share. I gave away everything I am going to give away. The rest is up to people interested in researching on their own. I'm here to answer questions about the generator for anyone who wants to build one. I will present it at the conference.

The potential difference stuff makes the generator obsolete. That's why I cannot get excited about the generator, and why I gave it away. But the PD stuff WON'T be given away. Why should I? Look at ALL the replications of the generator my willingness to share has produced. ZERO. And I am supposed to give away something even better? NEVER going to happen.

YOU know speed up under load or "neutral" coils work. You've built them. You know magnetic neutralization works. You've posted video of it. Yet you claim what I've shown is worthless? Oh, and where is YOUR generator that incorporates those two concepts. You don't have one because you are following Thane's work, which is absolutely your choice. But don't spew this crap that I haven't given away anything worthwhile when you know everything I have shared about building this generator is real. Just because you want to go with regenerative acceleration instead of "neutral" coils doesn't mean they do not do EXACTLY what I have said they do, and you know it.

If you ever really BUILD a machine based on what you have learned from Thane, let me know how it works out. I don't watch your endless repostings of Than's stuff because a motorcycle with a rear wheel that never touches the ground is really of no interest to me. He's had that thing for years, and the rear tire is still brand new. What good is it if it never goes down the road on a test run? Where is the video of THAT? Oh wait, there isn't any. Just video of it being "tested" on a stand. Powerful stuff!

I wish Thane all the best. He puts his money (or somebody's money) where his mouth is and actually BUILDS something instead of showing video of other people's work. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

[BroMikey]

here’s a depiction of my concept.
my thinking is instead of a flux switching magnet and coil within an extended core as a stator element, pic 2, maybe the same manipulation can be achieved with 2 stator elements 1 a pm and the other a cored coil.
so on approach to tdc the top rotor pm is attracted to the core. the bottom rotor pm is repelled by the pm in the stator.
by applying x amount of current to the coil to increase the attraction on the upper rotor magnet either so it matches the repulsion down the bottom or with still more current to put some attraction on the rotor.
then after tdc either stop all current in the coil and let the repulsion down the bottom over power the attraction to the core, or actively reverse the polarity in the coil and apply x amount of current to push on the upper rotor pm in sync with the repulsion down the bottom.
it’s probably not going to achieve any better a result than any other design. i just thought a hybrid stator is a bit novel and although there wouldn’t be much net force on the rotor it appears to be lenz free after tdc if no current flows through the coil, but it could well be that you pay for that somewhere else like on approach somehow. maybe a small gen coil located after tdc during that brief lenzless period can siphon off a little bit of power, but then it wouldn’t be lenzless?
cheers.

Wow seeing the transformer this might be a great idea. So 1 manget is fixed and the other magnet is moving thru the "C" core transformer. Hey I like that. I never would have thought of that. Reminds me of the “MEG” or the other guys running magnet switching experiments. It might work.

http://www.energeticforum.com/filedata/fetch?id=504971