Motor Generators

[Turion]

bro,
What you posted from John B is a radiant battery charging setup not a simple potential difference circuit.

Charge a large 24 volt cap and measure the watts put into it as you do. Then put a load between that cap and an identical cap that is empty and measure what leaves the 1st cap and arrives at the second cap. THEN tell me 80% of the energy cannot be recovered while still running the load.

[Quantum_well]

Case closed.
2.7 amps might just light the lights.
You do realise it's running off of the wall?

https://youtu.be/AkK2RsApWZE

[dragon]

bro,
What you posted from John B is a radiant battery charging setup not a simple potential difference circuit.

Charge a large 24 volt cap and measure the watts put into it as you do. Then put a load between that cap and an identical cap that is empty and measure what leaves the 1st cap and arrives at the second cap. THEN tell me 80% of the energy cannot be recovered while still running the load.

Actually that will leave you with a 50% loss of energy between the caps... 1 farad charged to 24 volts = 288 joules and the second at 0 joules... balanced you have both caps at around 72 joules in each or a total remaining of 144 joules. So 1/2 of the charge is lost.

However, if you start with charged caps you can increase the recovery substantially. For instance the first 1 farad cap charged to 24 volts and the second charged to 12 giving you 288 joules in the 24 volt cap and 72 joules in the 12 volt cap. When these are balanced you end up with 162 joules in each or a total balance of 324 joules and you started with 360 joules. Now you only have a 10% loss while balancing the system. You can get near unity as the voltage increases and the difference decreases.

[BroMikey]

Originally posted by Turion View Post

bro,
What you posted from John B is a radiant battery charging setup not a simple potential difference circuit.

Charge a large 24 volt cap and measure the watts put into it as you do. Then put a load between that cap and an identical cap that is empty and measure what leaves the 1st cap and arrives at the second cap. THEN tell me 80% of the energy cannot be recovered while still running the load.

Actually that will leave you with a 50% loss of energy between the caps... 1 farad charged to 24 volts = 288 joules and the second at 0 joules... balanced you have both caps at around 72 joules in each or a total remaining of 144 joules. So 1/2 of the charge is lost.

However, if you start with charged caps you can increase the recovery substantially. For instance the first 1 farad cap charged to 24 volts and the second charged to 12 giving you 288 joules in the 24 volt cap and 72 joules in the 12 volt cap. When these are balanced you end up with 162 joules in each or a total balance of 324 joules and you started with 360 joules. Now you only have a 10% loss while balancing the system. You can get near unity as the voltage increases and the difference decreases.

Where did you learn math? Out of a cracker jacks box? Dragon is right. Even still I wanted to try this and one of the many experiments offered used 2 converters to pump the system. The 1st converter acted in place of the Bedini coil and circuit. So pull that all out and you have two 12v batteries as source and one 12v battery facing the leads in the split the positive format.

If 80% were true, or even 20% or 10% was going to be recovered then my 12 batteries would stay charged.

The math is clear but I wanted to put it to a hardware test. Here is what I saw. 24v source over two 12v loads. The first stop is the converter load and the 2nd load the charging battery. Nothing seemed to work and so my batteries had to be charged as I was losing them again.

So next I measured the joules traveling around the loop and got a number. Numbers are important for doing the math. Next I took all 3 batteries and put them in parallel after a full charge making sure that the discharge rate was comparable to the 1st test. This is because going from a c20 discharge rate to a c35 discharge rate will lower internal battery plate resistance and you will seem to find more joules in that battery.

The number of joules was greatest coming straight of the 3 parallel batteries because the other circuit presented greater resistance loses by the charging battery #3. In other words my watt meter counted more joules straight off the 3 parallel batteries going to the converter that powered the load than the split system.

I will say that the modified motor seem to run strong and hold the batteries up longer but the batteries did go right down. Some have suggested if I had half a brain I would buy lots of converters and find the magic circuit that would operate the system like the modified motor.

Shame on you Dragon for bringing math into the equation.

[Quantum_well]

Oh, what fun with joules!! 60.00 joules = 1 watt/minutes.

[Turion]

So in Dragons example, 50% of the energy was lost, but how much was RECOVERED? My “math” says, in his example, 25%. That’s what ended up in the second capacitor after going through the load. Not only will higher voltages affect the results, as Dragon says, but I have seen it affected by other things.

[dragon]

Turion, As a mental experiment, follow the progression starting with the first one charged and the second at 0, then series these together and add a fresh 0 charged cap... follow the progression by adding a fresh 0 charge cap and putting the last in series with the others as you go along.... did you get more than the original 288 joules you started with?

[BroMikey]

Turion, As a mental experiment, follow the progression starting with the first one charged and the second at 0, then series these together and add a fresh 0 charged cap... follow the progression by adding a fresh 0 charge cap and putting the last in series with the others as you go along.... did you get more than the original 288 joules you started with?

Dave said that? Yup I remember back when he talked about this example using many many many battery packs for solar for his Dad. My question for this cap test Dragon is, why would you keep sending the energy to a 3rd, 4th and 5th cap if the 1st to 2nd cap gave no increase? It follows that the 3rd cap would make it even less as caps have internal resistance also.

So your 288 joules put over 2 loads at 144 joule+144joules will = 288 joules right? Nope, just splitting up the loads does not bring in extra energy. I would love to figure this out and find the principle I should be searching for and then I am told that the magic is the heightened POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE using the converter and THEN I will hit the jackpot. So you see how this develops? Fist one thing then if you perform the test you are told another.

Well wait, what kind of batteries did you buy? That must be why you are a failure or your converter is full of bad components or because you are a non believer the experiment can read your mind and this will not work for you is another cosmic response. Maybe Dave is right but I don't see why yet.

When 288 joules at 24v goes thru a load to another 0 cap the load changes as 2nd cap fills. This mean the load power is on an ever changing curve and only a watt meter can figure out. The load might be a light and would be bright at first and then go dim. These joules can be counted with a $6 meter.

Dragon already tried it but he is ashamed of it.Me too.

[voltan]

here’s a clip of a pulse motor in the zone at 1500 rpm. hi to all the rasta experimenters.
https://youtu.be/ttZEttQn00A

[BroMikey]

here’s a clip of a pulse motor in the zone at 1500 rpm. hehe sounds like the presenter’s in the zone as well..
https://youtu.be/ttZEttQn00A

Yup he has been around for years and he finally found thane Heins experiments but his first attempts way way back failed. I did not see this success video. Good to know he is not blaming Thane like so many do when they can't produce.

[Turion]

Dragon,
You never get more than you started with. The point is, the energy that is recovered did work and can be reused to do work again. Until the LOAD is used to produce some energy, which means an efficient load, you will never get more than you started with. Or at least I don't know how to.
Here is the first build of the zoo force motor I did years ago. I know I have videos of more recent builds, but I learned an incredible amount from this first build, and it is exactly the same KIND of motor that Bob French is using. As far as I am concerned, the Zero Force motor is the GREATEST GIFT John Bedini gave us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOu49oVhHs

[voltan]

after weeks of considering how to make a rotor, i remembered that i only need a 2 magnet rotor to experiment with the hybrid stator concept in pic 1.
i give you the bunnings solution. it looks feasible to have more than 2 magnets and if they got a central hole would be pretty secure bolted on.
and that spins free and easy on a RC hobby motor with its integral bearings and the cogging is deleted by removing the neos and the outer drum. pic 3. i can’t upload a video of it.

[BroMikey]

If this is your rotor I would stay under 1000 rpm's assuming (I can not see) that those magnets have a hole in them and a bolt is used to mount them to this bent piece of metal. Vibration could be quite high. Nice blue motor. Do you have a coil in mind? Here is the proper tolerance for safety. This rotor is good for 400 rpm.

[BroMikey]

Here is my rotor that turned out perfect at 1600 rpm. All homemade backyard formulated. Now if you have $10,000 to shell out every time you turn around like the big boss, you won't need to see this video. In fact you will probably mock and ignore the effort.

[BroMikey]

Backyard rotor man, "STRIKES AGAIN"