Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

I spy one of Thanes late dual 24 magnet rotor designs. I am looking ahead to the conference data release by Thane Heins

That dual rotor set up looks like a coil tester to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXzRr7dNg8

In this video real number are given in watts and joules. The unit operates at approx. 1400hz

[alexelectric]

http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...036#post510036

Very interesting for the data thanks

[BroMikey]

Battery plate mold maker video; no sound

[Turion]

Here is the data testing different magnets. I have four of each magnet on the rotors. My original magnets were 1/4” x 2” and produced 50.3 volts at .01 amps with a 45 watt load on my test coil.

The 3/4 x 3/4 magnets I am currently using produced only 14.9 volts and didn’t budge the 2 amp meter. Think that could be my problem? I THINK SO.

3/4 diameter by 1” produced 27.8 volts and barely budged the amp meter.

1” x 1” produced 50.3 volts at a tiny bit more than .01 amps, so better than the original magnets.

This is what I will be going with, and 24 of them on the rotor rather than the 6 I had of the 2” magnets on the original rotor. Hopefully the output will make up for the decrease in production of the coils with this new core material that does not heat up.

[BroMikey]

Here is the data testing different magnets. I have four of each magnet on the rotors. My original magnets were 1/4” x 2” and produced 50.3 volts at .01 amps with a 45 watt load on my test coil.

The 3/4 x 3/4 magnets I am currently using produced only 14.9 volts and didn’t budge the 2 amp meter. Think that could be my problem? I THINK SO.

3/4 diameter by 1” produced 27.8 volts and barely budged the amp meter.

1” x 1” produced 50.3 volts at a tiny bit more than .01 amps, so better than the original magnets.

This is what I will be going with, and 24 of them on the rotor rather than the 6 I had of the 2” magnets on the original rotor. Hopefully the output will make up for the decrease in production of the coils with this new core material that does not heat up.

looks like the cores only produce a fraction of the power of the original iron cores. Not the right material? THE old one's gave 200w plus sumpin is bad bad wrong with that core

[Turion]

Original cores were iron. It heats up after 30 minutes and melts the coating off the wires, shorting out the coil. So while those coils will put out EXACLY what I claimed they would, they cannot be used long term. The new coils can. And the machine will put out what it puts out. I won't know until it is up and running with the new coil material and the new magnets.

[BroMikey]

BTW hoping is a lot like wishing, my Dad use to say, when I would hope or make a wish "wish in one hand and zhit in the other to see which hand fills up the quickest"

[BroMikey]

Original cores were iron. It heats up after 30 minutes

I won't know until it is up and running with the new coil material and the new magnets.

Yes I know but using the right core will give you more power as the old iron without the heat. Use the old cores to see what this new test jig produces. It will be no heat and 70watts because you are making tests with a rotor that does not simulate a 24 magnet rotor at 3 times the speed for magnets whipping by cores. AT a 4" dia magnet rotor @3000rpm's the magnet is traveling 3100 feet per minute but at the 11" dia 8600 feet per minute almost 3x more feet.

You must know there is a difference, you can not ignore. WRite it on the board 20 times or you are kicked out of class till further notice

[alexelectric]

https://youtu.be/s9c0CoyR2iM

A personal suggestion, Mr. Dave, I think he would have made a replica of this generator that worked for him, with the safest and strongest material like the one he did later, the heating of the core would have resulted with some cooling, something provisional for that would allow more time of operation.

I observe that it changes options and results, and it is adjusting and looking for new operating conditions.

It takes time to find the right materials to get the desired results.

Thank you for everything you share with us Mr. Dave

[BroMikey]

https://youtu.be/s9c0CoyR2iM

A personal suggestion, Mr. Dave, I think he would have made a replica of this generator that worked for him,

he must test the same size rotor yes

[Turion]

bro,

If you have TESTED core materials and know what the right core material is that will put out lots of power without heating up, please share. If you haven't tested it yourself, don't bother. I don't need speculation, I need facts. Speculation is kinda like wishing and hoping. Until you see it on the bench, it is not rally a fact. The coils I am using have permalloy cores. It is the best material I have found so for for both power production and running long term. It will give me a working prototype, and that is all I care about. I got EXACTLY the data I wanted, comparing four of the original magnets against four of the ones I am using right now. It shows me that these magnets give me around 29% of the output that the 2" diameter magnets on the OLD machine put out. A full size rotor was not necessary to figure that out, only the SAME number of magnets on the SAME size rotor. I was also able to test against 4 of the 1' x 1" magnets and compare the results of all of them Obviously a larger rotor with more magnets will change the output. Any idiot knows that. But it would change the output for ALL the different magnets, so it is not necessary. Rotors the same size with only ONE magnet each would have given me the data to make the same comparison, but I have other uses for these rotors, so I had them made to hold four magnets.

[BroMikey]

Hi Dave I know I am pizzing you off but dude think about this chart. It would be easier if I just shut up and go away but I know to much to abandon you.

Look at this permeability chart for iron and some others. Just Permalloy alone has dozens of values in the form of a number. Thane abandoned the old permalloy a while back.

29% of 1200watts is very low. You are saying that the new machine will produce 400w with 12 coils?







...

[Turion]

I am not using the "old" permalloy. I am using the best material I could find and have tested. Like I said, if you have a material you have tested, let me know what it is. Just telling me it is "out there" really doesn't help much. If a new core material comes available, I will test it.

The best I got with the magnets I have is 90 volts DC across the load and I forget the amperage. That was with my big rotor. If that is truly only 29% of what I will get with the NEW magnets (which is what the testing showed) it is worth the time and energy to replace the rotor, which is what I am going to do. New magnets will be here Thursday. New rotor the first of next week.

Meanwhile I have two other projects I am working on.

[BroMikey]

I am not using the "old" permalloy. old or new there are dozens of values in between 10,000 to 200,000. I guess you missed that again
I always wonder if you heard me the first time when you ignore key statement. Ignorance is bliss.

I am using the best material no such one of a kind stuff I could find and have tested.

Like I said, if you have a material you have tested, I am not a coil/core designer

The best I got with the magnets I have is 90 volts..,,

..,, only 29% of what I will get with the NEW magnets

(which is what the testing showed)

it is worth the time and energy to replace the rotor, which is what I am going to do.

Okay I thought you said the new system will only put out 1/3 (29%) as much as the iron did.

One more thing you should know. Iron mixed with silicon (electrical grade steel) has a permeability number of 7000 and you had only iron without silicon. Maybe iron has no number because it becomes magnetized. THIs 7000 number is many times used for 60hz.

I am not a core and coil designer and until Thane employed a company (other than your retiring friend) to design and build he was stuck at 1 amp. It wasn't until he used a certain set of specific calculations for the proper curve for that inductance at that frequency that his coils put out 5 times that amount or 5 amps. That's right a carefully designed coil and core operating inside the curve window took a special person to make it happen for Thane. He also pointed out that that company could do a precision winding, not that sloppy backyard stuff looking like a ball of yarn where all your calculations go out the back door.

You my dear Sir like Thane and all the rest are shooting in the dark for the right everything.
But you have another cement project? That's nice. Obsolete you say? Iron is, I know that.

It sounds like you are doing the best you can, good luck with that.

[BroMikey]

Let me further explain the B/H relationship and the number scale for permeability. Designers spend a portion of their lives learning how to fit everything active into this narrow window.

Chromium, mg copper and many other refined metals of varying proportions are mixed with iron to produce a set permeability number for it.

It needs to be specific, not a one size fits all proposition.