Motor Generators

[Turion]

If the outside ring of magnets were going by the CENTER of the coils, then the machine would have to be bigger in all directions in order to hold the coils. That's the issue. Right now the coil holder can be made out of a specific size sheet of plastic cut into four pieces. Bigger pieces of plastic (+3" taller and +3" wider) would be needed, and that would be much more expensive.

As to what you said about the speed of the outside magnets, A single magnet on the outside moves FASTER past a specific point, but 20 magnets on the outside go past a specific point the same number of times in one rotation as 20 magnets on the inside circle. They just cover MORE DISTANCE in that rotation, so are moving FASTER. Yes, the outside magnets, because they travel faster would give you speed up under load at a lower speed, but my machine can still reach that speed. That's not an issue. I HAVE posted videos of speed up under load. My FIRST one was over ten years ago. If people don't want to believe it's possible, they can build something and see for themselves. I'm not babysitting anyone. My cut up finger is healing. The one that is giving me problems is the one I broke from the drill flipping around. Testing my coil for output tomorrow. When that is done, I will be testing for what the speed up under load RPM is for this new coil material. When I find it, I will post a video of it.

[BroMikey]

Hello Mr Dave, I see what you mean on plastic sheets that cost so much money and making a bigger machine. Your first machine didn't have the opposition magnets COP 3 and the dia of the magnets on the rotor was less than 12"'

This new one has a 8" to center dia?

I'll bet an old man don't heal as fast as he use to so take care of it because nobody else can. Baby sitting and phantom data are two different things is what a skeptic would say. We all heard you say that you don't give a rats azz. ........

[Turion]

I don't give a rat's ass. Don't have any rat's asses to give. Got rid of my last rat's ass years ago. I'm into horses' asses now. Did some testing today, but getting really WEIRD results. Not posting anything (video) until I figure out what is going on.That could be YEARS! LOL

[BroMikey]

Hello Mr Dave

This new one has a 8" to center dia?

I'll take that as a yes? I am here to make a statement about the old magnets and how you fudged the last set of magnets thinking it is all the same thing. Also your old rotor is here in my possession so I have the average center to center dia and have run the calculations before the entire group a couple of times.

Good common horse sense says you do not have the same dia as the old one so therefore you can not expect speed up or voltages to be close.

[Turion]

Center of rotor to center of coil is exactly the same as the old machine. Every machine I have built for the last ten years has had the exact same distance from center of rotor to center of coil, and hence they are all the "same" from center of rotor to center of magnet. Therefore speed of the magnet "passing the coil" at the same RPM of the rotor has ALWAYS been the same. Only the diameter of magnets has changed, so the TIME the coil is exposed to the magnet has changed. Some magnets were 2" diameter. Some were 1" diameter. Some were 3/4" diameter. There have been changes to the NUMBER of magnets on the rotor, so how many magnets passed the coil per rotation or per second at a given RPM has changed. The thickness of the rotor also changed. I started with 1/4" thick rotor and 1/4" thick magnets,. The last rotor was 1 3/4" thick. The present one is 1" thick. I have also changed the diameter of the rotor so that a circle of extra "opposition magnets" could be placed farther out on the rotor to interact with magnets on the stator. This required a much larger rotor and a larger stator.

[BroMikey]

Okay my mistake cause it is so big that the inside ream of 1" magnets looks small to me. I think the rotor you sent me was overall 12" in dia but with space to keep the magnets in plus taking off 1" to find center put you at a 10.5" dia at the center point. So you just said this new rotor has a 10.5" dia center.

Very interesting indeed, goodness that is a 16" rotor that you have now by the looks of it. That's my best guess. Thank Dave for filling in the data gaps. You probably told us before but I forgot.

With this new design you should have a much higher COP but we can't be sure with those experimental core you may have to change or put the old ones in there for 5 min to see what's failing.

[Turion]

Yeah, when you go from the 2" magnets down to the 1" magnets, there is a big difference in the distance of the outside edge of the magnet from the center of the rotor, So it's kind of an optical illusion, but the distance from center of rotor to CENTER of all the different magnets I have used has always been the same. My test yesterday showed almost NO voltage output from my coil, so I don't know what the heck is going on. Even LESS voltage that the 3/4 x 3/4 diameter magnets I had previously. Haven't been able to get back to it. Hopefully tomorrow, but another issue is it is very LOUD which it wasn't before, and my shop is too close to my wife's office where she works from home for me to run it while she's working, so have to roll it outside to even run it.

[BroMikey]

What might be happening with no voltage off the big rotor is that the coils see 1 big magnet because your rotor is plastic where other rotors with this design but magnets are set into metal. The metal causes a compression and a separation between magnets so close. A distinction between N and S magnet poles is important. I think shielding in this case might solve the bleeding fields.

This is why you get more from the tiny test rotors, due to their distance apart no shielding is needed.
To test this theory you could use a 7/8" magnet with a thin sleeve to bring it to 1" but if you do that make the 1/16" sleeve shorter than the full length of the magnet. My test show best results 50-70% leaving the magnet exposed on the very end

[BroMikey]

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DEX0

this link should help

This is why you get more from the tiny test rotors, due to their distance apart no shielding is needed.
To test this theory you could use a 7/8" magnet with a thin sleeve to bring it to 1" but if you do that make the 1/16" sleeve shorter than the full length of the magnet. My test show best results 50-70% leaving the magnet exposed on the very end

EDIT

Cut this sleeve to length and press them together with glue. All you need is a hacksaw and a way to hold it without damaging during cuts

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12464476600...oAAOxy4t1SiQiK

[BroMikey]

Thanes magnet shields when magnets are so close together the fields overlap.

[BroMikey]

Here is another example of the need for shielding on a dual rotor model. The fields this close together must be controlled and pushed of in front.

[BroMikey]

And yet another build where magnets are crammed together tightly. What do you see?

[BroMikey]

Jordan's little machine shielding

[BroMikey]

Poor man's machine shop using indicators. Close enough for horseshoes. Centering and gap adjustment.

[BroMikey]

Here is the classic illustration of adjacent magnetic fields overlapping and how the lines of force tank out. Your magnets are aligned in this way only closer. Do you understand now? Your findings support text book models.