ENLIGHTENED MAGNETISM (The Full Proof of Ken Wheeler's Theories)

[bistander]

Moving Charge

The electron beam is a current (negative) without a conductor or wire.

Yes, I know that Bistander.
My question was...does the Electron Stream (Beam) have a magnetic field?

And that a current (as in a conductor or wire) creates a magnetic field around that wire.

Yes, I thought I had made that clear. But the electron beam or stream is moving charges which constitute current by definition so it is current. The wire or conductor is not necessary for current. The electron beam, a single charge moving or a current all have a magnetic field around them as described in the references in my earlier posts.

However, I know deflection does take place at exact center of magnet...or electromagnet...and that is where the B Field Vector is right?

There is a B field vector at every point in the magnetic field. When looking at the force on a charge traveling in that field, you must use the B vector at the field location where the charge is at the exact moment in time.

A "Uniform Field"...I guess you are referring to a N>>S from two independent magnets like shown in previous pics right?.

You mean this picture?


The magnets (S of one shown & N of the other) are not independent. The same flux passes through both of them. They are simply "cut off" in the illustration for clarity; obviously there cannot be an independent S magnet on one side of the gap and a different independent N on the opposite. But that illustration does in fact show the magnetic field as uniform; for simplicity. In the real world, the field would not be uniform. It would fringe at the edges of the poles and, depending on the rest of the magnetic circuit (not shown), may even be weaker near the center of the poles.

You can see in that picture 3 force vectors. Each force vector would need to be calculated using the B vector and v vector for the charge q at that particular location and time. The force at that instant acting on q along with all the other forces acting on q at that instant will determine the acceleration according to the mass of the charge and ultimately determine the trajectory. That is why it is shown as a curve instead of a sharp upwards turn.

Hope that makes sense.

bi

[mikrovolt]

We can ask just what is a magnetic moment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment

In materials science at a quantum level we can ask what do magnetic materials have
in common even though the orbital geometries are different ?

The ferromagnetic elements have large magnetic moments due to un-paired electrons in their outer orbitals. This is like having current flowing in a coil of wire, creating a magnetic field. Even the spin of the electron is thought to create a minute magnetic field. When you get a bunch of these fields together, they add up to bigger fields.

It is the concentration that works and with electromagnetism the concentration is in a coil.
vortex being an element within the flux concentration unit,
2_2_1_4_eng.png

[Ufopolitics]

Lorentz Force...

Yes, I thought I had made that clear. But the electron beam or stream is moving charges which constitute current by definition so it is current. The wire or conductor is not necessary for current. The electron beam, a single charge moving or a current all have a magnetic field around them as described in the references in my earlier posts.

Thanks Bistander,

So, in the CRT case, we have a constant stream of (q-) electron particles flowing and hitting the fluorescent screen to form a dot of light when phosphorous area lights up. This stream of particles is constant (regulated by the Control Grid and the Source, both regulated by a constant signal) on the dot...Therefore, we may say that also the particle field hitting screen would be also constant...even though we know this is based on a constant flow of different particles and each one having a magnetic field.

There is a B field vector at every point in the magnetic field. When looking at the force on a charge traveling in that field, you must use the B vector at the field location where the charge is at the exact moment in time.

[IMG][/IMG]

You mean this picture?

Yes, that was it.

The magnets (S of one shown & N of the other) are not independent. The same flux passes through both of them. They are simply "cut off" in the illustration for clarity; obviously there cannot be an independent S magnet on one side of the gap and a different independent N on the opposite. But that illustration does in fact show the magnetic field as uniform; for simplicity. In the real world, the field would not be uniform. It would fringe at the edges of the poles and, depending on the rest of the magnetic circuit (not shown), may even be weaker near the center of the poles.

You can see in that picture 3 force vectors. Each force vector would need to be calculated using the B vector and v vector for the charge q at that particular location and time. The force at that instant acting on q along with all the other forces acting on q at that instant will determine the acceleration according to the mass of the charge and ultimately determine the trajectory. That is why it is shown as a curve instead of a sharp upwards turn.

Hope that makes sense.

bi

[IMG][/IMG]

When I wrote "Independent Poles" I meant that each belongs to a separate magnet...in other words we are facing Two Magnets where one has a North facing the other magnet South Pole.

So, that is called a Uniform Field...right?

A "Uniform Field" is not considered to face either a S>S or a N>N...since we will not have the darn "Lines of Force"...

Now, related to the picture I traced all the three different Forces acting on particle q+...

Let's look at that picture above from a different angle:

[IMG][/IMG]

On Diagram above we have the Uniform Field B Vectors perpendicular to our screen...so we see North on top of South...and each B Field interacting with each particle seen as a circle and dot...

I know these three forces F are chosen to demonstrate the sequence of main deflections, however, there are many, many forces acting, we could say in a whole 2D Plane at 360º...that could be enclosed within the circular blue circle/ellipse I drew...So, if that same particle q+ enters at any given point contouring the 360º around the Uniform Field...it will always be deflected at a 90º angle.

So, as a result we will have:

[IMG][/IMG]

So, let's imagine particle q+ is entering field at equidistant trajectories following the 360 degrees.

As result we are seeing all forces configuring that blue circle...all pointing inwards also equidistant...

All we are doing here is "SWEEPING/REVOLVING 360º" particle q+ to see the resulting Geometrical shape...


We have as result a Spiral/Vortex.


Agree with me so far?

And do not get me wrong here...I know Lorentz Forces are very real, therefore, I do agree with the angular deflections response from field.

What I do not agree with... is to look at it as One straight singular vector event, whenever we see one of this pictures containing just one particle which only reveals a couple of straight vectors of force PLUS One straight Vector of Trajectories...one result...that "apparently" do not configure any geometrical shape related to the Centripetal field Forces versus the Centrifugal Forces (end trajectory Arrows) ejecting particle away from field.

And it is very logical and common sense to see and understand that ANY Magnetic Field is a Three Dimensional Volume, therefore, it must be seen actions-reactions in at least a 2D Plane configured by a 360º Sweep.


I believe this way we have a complete full picture about the whole Lorentz Forces and Field reactions, which "paints" the full canvas and not just one event.


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

WRONG Concepts...

We can ask just what is a magnetic moment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment

In materials science at a quantum level we can ask what do magnetic materials have
in common even though the orbital geometries are different ?

The ferromagnetic elements have large magnetic moments due to un-paired electrons in their outer orbitals. This is like having current flowing in a coil of wire, creating a magnetic field. Even the spin of the electron is thought to create a minute magnetic field. When you get a bunch of these fields together, they add up to bigger fields.

It is the concentration that works and with electromagnetism the concentration is in a coil.
vortex being an element within the flux concentration unit,

[IMG][/IMG]

Mikrovolt,



Those are WRONG CONCEPTS we had for over 200 years friend.

You will find them in old and new books about Magnetism...they were based on the Iron Particles Model...which shows absolutely ZERO Polarization Nature.

I will never allow this WRONG CONCEPT image to be showing around without being rectified by me.

[IMG][/IMG]

Any piece of soft iron (non magnetized) near a pole will become automatically AN EXTENSION OF SUCH POLE.

I CALL IT "MAGNETIC POLARITY REDIRECTION"

The LIMIT for this to occur is exactly drawn by the Green Line exactly at center of magnet, Center Dielectric Plane, Bloch Wall or whatever you wanna call it.

So, the ONLY WAY that Iron piece will contain BOTH NORTH-SOUTH POLES in a 50-50 is when it is exactly at CENTER of that GREEN LINE, and Iron could be moved 360º around that Equatorial Line, always displaying same result.

This is VERY EASILY VERIFIABLE with a cheap Compass.

Or with View Film...

And it don't matter if iron is not touching magnet...so, by only being within the field SPATIAL forces INFLUENCE...and near that specific polarization...it will become an extension of that pole.

Whenever You guys post something like this, it means you are ACCEPTING IT...it makes me think that you just BELIEVE BLINDLY in whatever they tell you or show you out there.

Please DON'T...Always go to your BENCH and verify it YOURSELF.

I have done it and do it ALL THE TIME!!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[mikrovolt]

Magnetic flux take the path of least resistance N to S. Tiny even micro specs of iron do not overpower a strong magnets field
to any appreciable amount and most readers can see your ironic twist alright. Even with photoshoped imagery to paint a deluded importance to
small artifacts. Iron filings are not misconception or a major contributor to suppression.

The glass exibits no twist and the flux path has a very low percentage of
deformity in the flux. Small percentages of vortex is all you got or plagerized
the rest is simple fantasy magnifying low torque exaggerated spiral flux field.
A lens of deception. Amplification and overemphasis on artifact, tiny bubbles illustrated as yielding great horse power.
A mad man without common sense.

Concentration of flux lines; that is the distance between flux lines is a common relationship with ferrous materials.
You cannot improve on the lamenated cores that drive the real energy producing machines.

It is obvious that magnetic field strength lessens over distance.
It is not enlightenment that for over 200 years there have been people
playing with magnets tell us something new !

Tc_cone.jpg

[Ufopolitics]

Just do it...

Magnetic flux take the path of least resistance N to S. Tiny even micro specs of iron do not overpower a strong magnets field
to any appreciable amount and most readers can see your ironic twist alright. Even with photoshoped imagery to paint a deluded importance to
small artifacts. Iron filings are not misconception or a major contributor to suppression.

The glass exibits no twist and the flux path has a very low percentage of
deformity in the flux. Small percentages of vortex is all you got or plagerized
the rest is simple fantasy magnifying low torque exaggerated spiral flux field.
A lens of deception. Amplification and overemphasis on artifact, tiny bubbles illustrated as yielding great horse power.
A mad man without common sense.

Concentration of flux lines; that is the distance between flux lines is a common relationship with ferrous materials.
You cannot improve on the lamenated cores that drive the real energy producing machines.

It is obvious that magnetic field strength lessens over distance.
It is not enlightenment that for over 200 years there have been people
playing with magnets tell us something new !

[ATTACH]17114[/ATTACH]

All You have to do is test it for yourself.

Get a piece of iron near a magnet's North Pole (like you have in that picture)...and see for yourself if there is any South pole in that iron...something so simple to check with a cheap compass...

Then comeback here and do the talking.

I won't be wasting my time arguing with you about something am sure off.


Bye


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Your "True Colors" are coming out...

Magnetic flux take the path of least resistance N to S. Tiny even micro specs of iron do not overpower a strong magnets field
to any appreciable amount and most readers can see your ironic twist alright. Even with photoshoped imagery to paint a deluded importance to
small artifacts. Iron filings are not misconception or a major contributor to suppression.

That is your opinion, it does not necessarily need to be "the one and only", nor others way of thinking.
Of course "tiny particles" does not overpower a strong magnet's field, I never wrote such thing...but they do freeze it, Thousands of particles do become "tiny magnets" that automatically align with the "strong" magnet's outer high pressure field, forming chains and giving the WRONG ILLUSION of a RIGID MODEL and just the outer shell.

Then "A Rigid Model" could be dealt with Rigid Vectors and Rigid Tensors to calculate its power...wrong, it does not give us the full dynamic Vortex operation.

The glass exibits no twist and the flux path has a very low percentage of
deformity in the flux.

Really?...WOW!...What a Discovery!!...Oh My God!!

Small percentages of vortex is all you got or plagerized
the rest is simple fantasy magnifying low torque exaggerated spiral flux field.
A lens of deception. Amplification and overemphasis on artifact, tiny bubbles illustrated as yielding great horse power.
A mad man without common sense.

Concentration of flux lines; that is the distance between flux lines is a common relationship with ferrous materials.
You cannot improve on the lamenated cores that drive the real energy producing machines.

It is obvious that magnetic field strength lessens over distance.
It is not enlightenment that for over 200 years there have been people
playing with magnets tell us something new !

[ATTACH]17114[/ATTACH]

If You have such opinion about this Thread and about Me...then WTF are U doing writing/posting here?

Just bringing your false images, and completely Off Topic links and Images?

Trying to confuse people?

Finally your True Colors are showing up...that is just great!

[Iamnuts]

Tim from Ferrocell explained to me that what you're seeing
is the particles taking the path of least resistance which is
what happens in nature most of the time.

[Ufopolitics]

Tim from Ferrocell explained to me that what you're seeing
is the particles taking the path of least resistance which is
what happens in nature most of the time.

So, in your belief...do you think that solves the issue this Thread is all about?

What Path?...which Path should we use?

The straight "Lines of Force" Path between a North>>South?

Or is it a Spiral Vortex at different pressures.

Timm Vanderelli from Ferrocell believes Magnet have Vortexes.

1-It is NOT the same to just Dump iron particles randomly and loose... right on top of a piece of paper over a magnet.

2-Rather than having particles suspended in a colloidal/viscous/liquid substance...enclosed in an optical device/material which you could "Focus" the Field as adjust zooming distance, In other words have Optics Control...aided by polarized or normal lighting. Therefore, not having a direct and stronger magnetic influence that could distort image.


Which Method do you believe could render more accurate results?


Cheers



Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Responses

[IMG][/IMG]

When I wrote "Independent Poles" I meant that each belongs to a separate magnet...in other words we are facing Two Magnets where one has a North facing the other magnet South Pole.

Not necessarily. The space between the N and the S pole faces could very well be the air gap of a one piece magnetic circuit (ring of iron).

So, that is called a Uniform Field...right?

That particular example showed or implied a uniform field. The field in an air gap is not necessarily uniform and in most cases in the real world, isn't.

A "Uniform Field" is not considered to face either a S>S or a N>N...since we will not have the darn "Lines of Force"...

Unknown what you mean. I guess I would not consider the magnetic field uniform between 2 like poles. But as far as Lines of force, you show these in this diagram you posted between two North poles.



Related to that image (the original), I do not think it is an accurate representation of the field distortion caused by an iron bar placed close to a magnet. The lines do not just exit and enter the bar magnet on the pole faces. They will look similar to this:

Therefore the distorted field with the iron bar placed close to the magnet's North pole will be considerably different than that original diagram.

And your representation of a piece of iron with 2 North poles and 0 South poles cannot possibly exist. All magnetic poles come in pairs. One North and one South per magnet.

No need to get into it deeper here, but I want to mention again, that green line through the middle of the magnet is only in your imagination. There is no physical demarcation there, in my opinion.

Now, related to the picture I traced all the three different Forces acting on particle q+...

Let's look at that picture above from a different angle:

[IMG][/IMG]

On Diagram above we have the Uniform Field B Vectors perpendicular to our screen...so we see North on top of South...and each B Field interacting with each particle seen as a circle and dot...

I know these three forces F are chosen to demonstrate the sequence of main deflections, however, there are many, many forces acting, we could say in a whole 2D Plane at 360º...that could be enclosed within the circular blue circle/ellipse I drew...So, if that same particle q+ enters at any given point contouring the 360º around the Uniform Field...it will always be deflected at a 90º angle.

So, as a result we will have:

[IMG][/IMG]

So, let's imagine particle q+ is entering field at equidistant trajectories following the 360 degrees.

As result we are seeing all forces configuring that blue circle...all pointing inwards also equidistant...

All we are doing here is "SWEEPING/REVOLVING 360º" particle q+ to see the resulting Geometrical shape...


We have as result a Spiral/Vortex.


Agree with me so far?

No.

And do not get me wrong here...I know Lorentz Forces are very real, therefore, I do agree with the angular deflections response from field.

What I do not agree with... is to look at it as One straight singular vector event, whenever we see one of this pictures containing just one particle which only reveals a couple of straight vectors of force PLUS One straight Vector of Trajectories...

These are just examples where the author has kept the diagrams simple to illustrate his point(s).

...one result...that "apparently" do not configure any geometrical shape related to the Centripetal field Forces versus the Centrifugal Forces (end trajectory Arrows) ejecting particle away from field.

By particle do you mean charge? Could it be there are no Centripetal field Forces versus the Centrifugal Forces ejecting particle (charges) away from field? Why do you think the charges' trajectories will not continue and they will exit the field as they entered it except on the altered heading (direction)?

And it is very logical and common sense to see and understand that ANY Magnetic Field is a Three Dimensional Volume, therefore, it must be seen actions-reactions in at least a 2D Plane configured by a 360º Sweep.


I believe this way we have a complete full picture about the whole Lorentz Forces and Field reactions, which "paints" the full canvas and not just one event.


Cheers


Ufopolitics

That's the way you look at it but not the way I see it.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Not necessarily. The space between the N and the S pole faces could very well be the air gap of a one piece magnetic circuit (ring of iron).

Thanks Bistander,

Yes, of course it could be also an open ring magnet...but I believe that is kind of an odd case.

That particular example showed or implied a uniform field. The field in an air gap is not necessarily uniform and in most cases in the real world, isn't.

Agree...is never a Uniform, perfect field...it is always full of imperfections even with two identical magnets, same type,strength etc...

Unknown what you mean. I guess I would not consider the magnetic field uniform between 2 like poles. But as far as Lines of force, you show these in this diagram you posted between two North poles.

Ok, that was a piece of iron near a north pole...which means it is not "another" north pole but just an extension of that pole on magnet...therefore they will not repel.

Related to that image (the original), I do not think it is an accurate representation of the field distortion caused by an iron bar placed close to a magnet. The lines do not just exit and enter the bar magnet on the pole faces. They will look similar to this:

Therefore the distorted field with the iron bar placed close to the magnet's North pole will be considerably different than that original diagram.

Agree...it shouldn't look like that at all...(referring to the original image)

And your representation of a piece of iron with 2 North poles and 0 South poles cannot possibly exist. All magnetic poles come in pairs. One North and one South per magnet.

The piece of iron does not have two north poles...just one white "N"...lol

and it is just being redirected that same N pole on magnet.

The piece of iron is not a permanent magnet, even if it is redirecting any of the magnet poles...if it is cold roll, or any other carbon steel it will demagnetize as soon as is off the area of influence.

The Magnetic Polarity Redirection to Iron...is not something new Bistander...It's been utilized for many many years in many applications...like the Car Alternators Exciter Jaws Rotor...Also in any Speaker Ring Magnet...it has a heavy "solid hat" piece of iron which attach to back pole...bringing pole to center front of ring.

Check it yourself...any piece of iron you contact to a pole from any magnet...it will not have but only that pole where it is attached to...no matter N or S.

No need to get into it deeper here, but I want to mention again, that green line through the middle of the magnet is only in your imagination. There is no physical demarcation there, in my opinion.

I believe you are starting to look again at that green line there...maybe you end up liking it...

These are just examples where the author has kept the diagrams simple to illustrate his point(s).

Ok...

By particle do you mean charge? Could it be there are no Centripetal field Forces versus the Centrifugal Forces ejecting particle (charges) away from field? Why do you think the charges' trajectories will not continue and they will exit the field as they entered it except on the altered heading (direction)?

That's the way you look at it but not the way I see it.

Regards,

bi

Yes a charged particle, of course...sorry for the misunderstanding.

Maybe it was wrong on my end to write "trajectory end"...I know particle will continue to travel...just got bent (deflected) by field influence.

Now on the "Lorentz Force at 360º picture¨I made...

Let me ask this...


When you are scanning a page, with a picture or text...no matter...for either a fax or a scanner...you know the machine(s) will sweep line per line in order to have the whole Picture/Image/Text right?

One line will not be enough to see the whole thing.

The same principle applies to any CRT reproducing any image, signal, etc,etc.

It must do a sweep, from vertical and horizontal lines...then raster both to get the common dots...where it will form the image or text, or signal.

A Magnetic Field is a Three Dimensional "Entity" right?...no one could see it with naked eye...but anyone could feel it.

And even there is a test seeing the field with iron filings in 3D within a clear plastic container...not the correct field but is seen in 3D.

Now how could you be able to see the whole field by only reading "one line"?

Can you just open your mind here and think that if just one particle bends at certain angle effected by the field...that by using sweeping of those (charged) particles and running it through at least a portion (2D) of that field we will have some imaging of that field face?

Maybe you do not understand this above without a graphic...but it is an experiment am doing with CRT Beam.


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[ldrancer]

whats your guys real statement here? are you trying to say that a magnet is, a vortex? or are you trying to prove a vortex? or do you just not use words consistently like, like scientifically so your theory can't be made unfalsifiable.

[Iamnuts]

Quote.
" A magnetic field is a three dimensional "Entity" Right? "
I would disagree, a magnetic field is at least four dimensional,
if not more.

[bistander]

North - South

The piece of iron does not have two north poles...just one white "N"...lol

and it is just being redirected that same N pole on magnet.

The piece of iron is not a permanent magnet, even if it is redirecting any of the magnet poles...if it is cold roll, or any other carbon steel it will demagnetize as soon as is off the area of influence.

The Magnetic Polarity Redirection to Iron...is not something new Bistander...It's been utilized for many many years in many applications...like the Car Alternators Exciter Jaws Rotor...

Hi Ufo,

...just one white "N"...

So like a mono-pole? That piece of soft iron is a permanent magnet inasmuch as it has retentivity and will exhibit residual flux after removed from the external magnetic field. It does have a S and N pole after being influenced by the external field and will retain the S and N poles until demagnetized. The magnetic strength of the piece of iron (or its coercivity) is not as great as a piece of permanent magnet material (magnetically hard material), but is present to the degree that the N and S pole can be identified.

...like the Car Alternators Exciter Jaws Rotor...

I think you refer to the claw type rotor poles on the field of automotive style alternator called the Lundell rotor. Yes, these are steel or iron shaped to extend the magnetic circuit through the field coil (excitation) to the air gap across from the armature.

...just one white "N"...

If that were true, the iron piece would be repelled by the N pole on the magnet, but it isn't, it is attracted to it because the end of the iron piece closest to the N pole of the magnet becomes a S pole.

Regards,

bi

[ldrancer]

Quote.
" A magnetic field is a three dimensional "Entity" Right? "
I would disagree, a magnetic field is at least four dimensional,
if not more.

entity= what ?

4-d= huh?

vortex? ???

why dont you guys go back to your economy topics it's all fake an you push a censored controlled world. as long as you ( ken wheeler ) keeps getting paid off i mean profit fromit. profit= fiat currency.

nothing im saying is to your guys good. you need to answer the discrepancies in yoru theories before coming up with more unfounded made up bs. if a magnet isnt 3-d then its NOTHING then your guess here is WRONG. there isnt a 4th dimension or anything besides 3 of them.
IF you want to make a comment claiming 4th dimension after MY comment then put down WHAT a 4th dimension is. You're distracting from my reply and not answer the discrepancies in your guys guesses. this is irresponsible, unscientific and you should be banned for disrupting scientifci talk at least im trying to debunk this ****. you just encouraged more ****.

might as well call this forum economy and while you're at it add the rest of the fake science forums to it. this forum is full of fake science ****.

i been listenting to you mfers bs and im not gonna take u mfers ****.

**** you bunch of fake censoring pieces of ****. you godamn dont talk over me thats the same as censorship