The Path to a real Free Energy Device.

[Turion]

I want to cover two separate topics in this thread, because there are actually TWO paths to all of us having a free energy device, and they are parallel.

The First issue is, what do we do when we finally HAVE one, which I believe to be the more important issue, because it so dramatically impacts the process of getting there in the first place.

So for a moment, let us assume you HAVE the working free energy device sitting on your bench. It is probably very hard to see it clearly because of all the dollar signs in your eyes but this is to be expected. Been there. Done that. And although I was disappointed to discover I didn't have what I thought I had, I learned a LOT through the process. For those of you who don't know my story, let me briefly summarize.

At the time I wasn't married, but my future bride worked in intellectual property law and knew some of the TOP people in the country in that area. For a $10,000 non-refundable deposit, I got in to see one of them to discuss my future millions. After several hundred hours of discussion with my future bride concerning intellectual property, (a field where she has some 20 years experience) and after consulting with the attorney, I decided to abandon the idea of seeking a patent, which was my #1 idea. He was kind enough to refund MOST of my money, which he did NOT have to do. For that I will always be grateful. $10,000 was a LOT of money! By this time my device had QUIT working anyway, so I was very happy to get ANY of my money back.

But here is why I abandoned the patent idea in the first place. Let's assume you get a provisional patent, and now the "guts" of your device, if not the specifics, are available to the general public. Major corporations have people who do NOTHING but review provisional patents waiting for something they can pounce on. My attorney is the one who explained all this to me and it is HIS JOB to know this stuff. If any aspect of your device is similar in composition, design or function to something they have a patent on, a larger company with money to burn can issue a "patent challenge" which you are then required to defend in a court of law at YOUR expense before you can continue on in the patent process. Failure to respond nullifies your patent. They don't really CARE if they lose. They don't even care if what you have is CLOSE to what they have. All they want is a chance to tie you up in court. Their only goal is to bankrupt YOU before you get to market. Once you have defeated THAT challenge, another one is issued. And then another. And then another. And not just from ONE company, but from multiple companies who do NOT want your device on the market. This si why they buy up every junk patent they can find and stick it on their shelves. Just so they will have something similar to what YOU came up with when they NEED it. Good luck EVER getting a patent issued. Really! GOOD LUCK.

This leaves some other options.

Idea #2. Try and sell the idea to another company who has the deep pockets to fight the battle you could not, take their money and run.
Problems with that.
Are you going to get the tens of millions of dollars your invention was worth, or will you have to settle for far less. Reality check here.
Will you get any credit for having come up with this in the history books? NOT!
Oh, and by the way, you don't have a PATENT on the device, so what are you really selling? And what is to stop them from stealing your device from you? An NDA? Better hope THEY don't have a patent for something similar already sitting in a drawer somewhere or you are really screwed. They tweak something they already have a patent on just a bit and away they go. After all, a patent never discloses EVERYTHING about a device now does it? The thing that makes YOURS work might just be the thing that makes the one they already have work, which you have to SHARE under the NDA before they buy it, and they can claim was part of a patent they already have, just NOT disclosed in the patent. Get it???

Idea #3. You become a big enough pain it the ass by running around blabbing about your idea that someone shuts you up. Permanently.


Idea #4. You release the information to the general public.
Why? Because you can make millions this way also. You become known as the person who introduced free energy to the world. You tour the country and the world giving lectures about how you came up with the idea and what it means. You speak to millions. Your lecture fees ALONE will make you millions, plus you will get to work with the brightest minds in every country on the planet in furthering this work. You sell basic kits to every school in America for their science curriculum. You sell DVD's of your lecture series. You go on TV. You become the world's biggest rock star.

HOW do you make this happen? Part II coming up. A plan!

[wayne.ct]

No pain no gain

Of course you can do all this and still fall on your face. Perhaps you are not the salesman public speaker that you think you are and you get a little confused by all the objections and arguments that come your way! O well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Turion]

Part II

The problem as I see it is that NOBODY, and this includes folks like John B, has ever appeared and gone step by step through the process of building a large scale WORKING free energy device. Not on this forum or any other that I am familiar with, other than small models like the SG and the window motor. John has recently disclosed even MORE about the SG, but look how long that took, and nobody is going to power their house off that small build. I DO believe that it is possible John could teach all of us, step by step, to build the device we are looking for, and maybe that will happen some day. But it has not happened yet. I don't mean that he hasn't provided the INFORMATION. I believe some of it is right in front of us and we fail to see it. But no step-by-step until everyone involved had a functional working free energy device that REALLY delivers power has yet to be built.

What we need is for someone to come on here and take us step by step through the build process. That individual would instantly become famous if they followed the correct process.

Before posting here there are some things they should do. First, put together a package that contains all the plans, schematics, videos of working device and a step- by-step building process. Be sure to include a news broadcast in the background or a local newspaper front page shot for verification of the date. Let them know on which forums you will be posting this information and how they can post there. Then mail that out to as many trusted folks you can think of, registered mail (TWO COPIES...one to open and one to remain sealed) with directions to them to duplicate and mail it out to ten more, and so one. Hopefully you included a bunch of real BUILDERS in that group instead of all talkers. Open the flood-gates before going public on the forum.

Then go through the process HERE of building the thing. Do NOT respond to any criticisms or naysayers. Ignore them. Answer only those questions that have to do with building the device. When 20 or so folks have built a device that works, and can publish test results that prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can begin to approach credible institutions with the device and the results. I can put anybody in front of those kind of folks here in California in the Silicon Valley. My wife has contacts like you wouldn't believe. She was one of the folks involved in the (San Jose) Tech Museum Tech Awards Banquet (Google it) that honors the top technology innovations in the WORLD every year, and awards them grants of hundreds of thousands of dollars. So she knows folks. THOSE kinds of institutions who are focused on making free energy available to the masses.

So what's stopping the from happening? Until we put our egos on the shelf and freely disclose what we know on a public forum like this, the parts and pieces that each of us knows will remain hidden from the rest of us. Until we ALL realize that public disclosure is the ONLY way to go and CAN make those who disclose rich, we are beating our head against the wall. But if you believe that once something is in the public domain, nobody can "steal" it from you and patent it, you are INCORRECT. Google: Study on Patents and the Public Domain- IPO
Should we all choose to contribute to such a project, that could be arranged HERE. There's enough glory AND money to go around for the man or GROUP OF MEN who give free energy to the world. How many millions a year do you need anyway?

Should one person choose to do as I have suggested, that could also happen HERE.

BUT..... unless something changes, we will continue to have this petty bickering and name calling. We will continue to have cheerleaders who post 3 or 4 times a day in every active thread, contributing NOTHING, but holding the stage so that no one of substance can speak. We will continue to have GOOD people leave the forum because they see nothing of value here, or at least they won't contribute because they are tired of idiots and naysayers jumping on them every time they speak, and are sick to death of the nonsense that goes on here.

Other than THIS thread, I will no longer be posting on ANY thread on this forum, unless it is to ask a specific question, or show something that I MYSELF have built to show in reference to the subject of that thread. Either a piece of a build, or an entire build. I will test my own theories, not ask others to do it for me. I will build my own models. I will NOT post YouTube videos unless they are to prove a point, and then will explain what point they are there to prove. I'm not going to post any device without an explanation of the device and hard data to back up why I am posting about it.

I believe I know some things of value that others may not know. I believe there are others here who know things I may not know. I believe TOGETHER we have all the pieces of the puzzle. But as long as ONE person keeps that puzzle piece in his pocket because of selfishness, greed, or ego, the puzzle will never be complete now will it?

[Turion]

wayne.ct

Are you proud of yourself for having said that? Is anybody else? Just curious why you took the time to contribute absolutely NOTHING to the cause. And what could be the reason for that I wonder?

[Bob Smith]

I see it as two main paths, with variations of each:

First - for those who are looking to make a livelihood of it, would be to get a business plan together, some private backers (if needed) and to get it manufactured offshore, and set up some kind of web-based ordering business.

Second - for those who just want to get the word out, would be to distribute it far and wide to as many parties by as many means possible: forums, mail, electronic mail, website etc. This might also include assembling units and distributing them to colleagues, friends, collaborators etc.

The WORST thing I've seen people do (aside perhaps from applying for a patent) is to announce to the world that they're about to put the utility companies out of business. You just know they're going to be shut down very soon. A friend likened this approach to poking a bear with a stick - if you're smart, you don't do it.

Bob

[Turion]

Bob,
In regards to your First point.
I have talked to LOTs of people who work FOR venture capitalists, and to a man, they won't risk the money on anything that has not yet been patented. It's too big a risk that someone with a prior patent might pop out of the woodwork. That leaves finding a private individual or individuals to provide private funding who have deep pockets and are willing to risk backing someone who does NOT have a patent on their technology. That's a tough find.

In regards to your Second point. I agree with every word.

[Ernst]

Thank you for your story here. It contains some aspects that we (people in my project) have not yet thought of!
On spreading and replicating....
What if this is impossible? I mean I can spread the info, which I wanted to do a LONG time already, but replicating is not easy at all.
Also imagine your neighbours starting to build a 10 m heigh mini-Wardenclyffe in their garden, how far do you think they will get before they are forced to abandon the work?
Spreading the word and saying that it was true what Tesla said, while the common understanding among scientist is that Tesla was a nutcase, will not help much, will it?
I too will get the "madman of the year" award and will receive many sympathetic smiles instead of fame and fortune.
How to proceed in that situation?

Thanks again for your story!

Ernst.

[Ernst]

But if you believe that once something is in the public domain, nobody can "steal" it from you and patent it, you are INCORRECT. Google: Study on Patents and the Public Domain- IPO

I did google that but there are too many articles that google comes up with, not dealing with this particular issue.
Can you link to a specific article or site that explains this.

I know it can be done (get a patent on someone else's publicly known idea). It happened to prof. Dewar, for example. But I can not see how it can be done since a patent must contain a new idea. If it is all over the i-net, no one can call it a new idea anymore?


Ernst.

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent Thread Dave!

Hello to All,

It is an excellent Thread indeed. And I agree 100% on it.

I will add another option to "Idea #4", which is what I am doing right now and have done already.

Upload Your Model, in detail in as many OPEN SOURCE SCIENCE sites as you could find...and I could post many here as any of you could search and find them.

Upload all material SIMULTANEOUSLY, have ready all packages, all previous accounts and login...etc,etc

Preferably do it on an International Holiday, Christmas, New Year's eve...etc,etc...

Related to my case it is NOT JUST ABOUT a specific "Apparatus"...nor any specific Machine.

It is a Scientific Discovery based on new METHODS (Not just One) to extract Energy From Magnetic Fields which is in completely different fashion as it has been known for over 200 years.

A Discovery can not be Patented.

A Discovery must not be sold at ANY PRICE!

From just one Discovery MANY NEW MACHINES will start to be developed/produced based on that new Methodology.

I have made TWO Discoveries, so from each one will branch out many different machine designs and concepts.

Like You have written above, Dave, I am more interested in writing a Text Book (I am working on that part by now), and a DVD with all animated material and Graphics...as give lectures, etc,etc.

I am not interested in starting to produce a la grand(Market) any machines, but just the required ones to prove the Discoveries Applications work and how they do it...and how they could be scaled up, etc,etc...a Learning Tool like to display in class or lectures as well to be part of Book and DVD Images Tests, etc.

A Discovery Concept flies out faster than the building of a complicated Machine...no matter how simple it could be, it require spec's, gauge number of turns, air gaps, poles disposition, magnetic spec's...lathing parts, making, welding,and so on and on etc,etc...

I believe this Thread is very useful for anyone who wants to really make sure, not only this Generation gets to know about it...but to stay on forever teaching new ones when anyone of Us are no longer around to do it personally.

Only when I am done releasing all this info...I will be a happy person, and would have get rid of a lot of stress...while my mind will be very peaceful..that is what I am aiming towards basically.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[CANGAS]

I want to cover two separate topics in this thread, because there are actually TWO paths to all of us having a free energy device, and they are parallel.

The First issue is, what do we do when we finally HAVE one, which I believe to be the more important issue, because it so dramatically impacts the process of getting there in the first place.

So for a moment, let us assume you HAVE the working free energy device sitting on your bench. It is probably very hard to see it clearly because of all the dollar signs in your eyes but this is to be expected. Been there. Done that. And although I was disappointed to discover I didn't have what I thought I had, I learned a LOT through the process. For those of you who don't know my story, let me briefly summarize.

At the time I wasn't married, but my future bride worked in intellectual property law and knew some of the TOP people in the country in that area. For a $10,000 non-refundable deposit, I got in to see one of them to discuss my future millions. After several hundred hours of discussion with my future bride concerning intellectual property, (a field where she has some 20 years experience) and after consulting with the attorney, I decided to abandon the idea of seeking a patent, which was my #1 idea. He was kind enough to refund MOST of my money, which he did NOT have to do. For that I will always be grateful. $10,000 was a LOT of money! By this time my device had QUIT working anyway, so I was very happy to get ANY of my money back.

But here is why I abandoned the patent idea in the first place. Let's assume you get a provisional patent, and now the "guts" of your device, if not the specifics, are available to the general public. Major corporations have people who do NOTHING but review provisional patents waiting for something they can pounce on. My attorney is the one who explained all this to me and it is HIS JOB to know this stuff. If any aspect of your device is similar in composition, design or function to something they have a patent on, a larger company with money to burn can issue a "patent challenge" which you are then required to defend in a court of law at YOUR expense before you can continue on in the patent process. Failure to respond nullifies your patent. They don't really CARE if they lose. They don't even care if what you have is CLOSE to what they have. All they want is a chance to tie you up in court. Their only goal is to bankrupt YOU before you get to market. Once you have defeated THAT challenge, another one is issued. And then another. And then another. And not just from ONE company, but from multiple companies who do NOT want your device on the market. This si why they buy up every junk patent they can find and stick it on their shelves. Just so they will have something similar to what YOU came up with when they NEED it. Good luck EVER getting a patent issued. Really! GOOD LUCK.

This leaves some other options.

Idea #2. Try and sell the idea to another company who has the deep pockets to fight the battle you could not, take their money and run.
Problems with that.
Are you going to get the tens of millions of dollars your invention was worth, or will you have to settle for far less. Reality check here.
Will you get any credit for having come up with this in the history books? NOT!
Oh, and by the way, you don't have a PATENT on the device, so what are you really selling? And what is to stop them from stealing your device from you? An NDA? Better hope THEY don't have a patent for something similar already sitting in a drawer somewhere or you are really screwed. They tweak something they already have a patent on just a bit and away they go. After all, a patent never discloses EVERYTHING about a device now does it? The thing that makes YOURS work might just be the thing that makes the one they already have work, which you have to SHARE under the NDA before they buy it, and they can claim was part of a patent they already have, just NOT disclosed in the patent. Get it???

Idea #3. You become a big enough pain it the ass by running around blabbing about your idea that someone shuts you up. Permanently.


Idea #4. You release the information to the general public.
Why? Because you can make millions this way also. You become known as the person who introduced free energy to the world. You tour the country and the world giving lectures about how you came up with the idea and what it means. You speak to millions. Your lecture fees ALONE will make you millions, plus you will get to work with the brightest minds in every country on the planet in furthering this work. You sell basic kits to every school in America for their science curriculum. You sell DVD's of your lecture series. You go on TV. You become the world's biggest rock star.

HOW do you make this happen? Part II coming up. A plan!

You are telling us a damn lie and I wonder why.

Major corporations have people who do NOTHING but review provisional patents waiting for something they can pounce on.

Last I read about it, a Provisional Patent APPLICATION is not made public until it ever happens that a REAL patent is issued and then there is litigation regarding the REAL patent.

Why are you telling lies about Provisional Patent APPLICATIONS?


CANGAS

[Ufopolitics]

You are telling us a damn lie and I wonder why.



Last I read about it, a Provisional Patent APPLICATION is not made public until it ever happens that a REAL patent is issued and then there is litigation regarding the REAL patent.

Why are you telling lies about Provisional Patent APPLICATIONS?


CANGAS

Bold underlined text is Negative,

A Patent Application is Public the minute you file it with USPTO and has been reviewed and processed by examiners, waiting to be Granted..

You must have some key words to search it though.

Published Patent Application Access and Status Information Sheet for Members of the Public

I. Access to, and copies of applications which have been published

A member of the public cannot obtain direct physical access to any pending published (original) application, but may obtain a copy of the papers in the application file as follows:

On-line: Patent application publications are available electronically on the USPTO website, at PatFT Redirect . A copy of a patent application publication, a patent application file contents or a particular paper within the file contents of a patent application that was published under 35 U.S.C. 122(b) may be requested electronically at US Patent and Trademark Office - Online Shopping Welcome with authorization to charge the appropriate fee to a deposit account or credit card.

By mail: A copy of a patent application publication, a patent application file contents or a particular paper within the file contents of an patent application that was published under 35 U.S.C. 122(b) may be requested by mail.

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

A Patent is way that Governments have full control over the Patent Owner (Inventor) or Assignee.

They can "turn you off" as a switch...

They can restrict/seize/recover/lock up/ and prohibit Patent Marketing of related Products ANY TIME.

Violators are subject to Inventor's Secrecy Act from the 1950's.

It is a Federal Violation punishable with 10 years in Federal Prison or 10,000 USD "Legal Tender Notes"

The Two major Government Branches that are ABOVE USPTO are: DoD and DoE (Dept. of Defense, Dept. of Energy

They decide if a specific Patent could be detrimental to National Security...which could mean an Economic Collapse of the main Source of Energy:OIL. and ALL related Industries including WAR INDUSTRY.

Ufopolitics

[Turion]

respone

CANGAS,

Let's say YOU file a provisional Patent for a "Device that produces energy from the combination of a specific metal in an acid base" or some such rubbish.

You have given EVERY company that wants to KEEP you from obtaining a Patent the opportunity to see what you have and to issue patent challenges (not during the provisional patent stage, but during the patent stage) on the following basis:

ARE PROVISIONAL PATENT APPLICATIONS PUBLISHED? | NEUSTEL LAW OFFICES

While a provisional patent application is never published by the U.S. Patent Office for the public to view or search, there are two situations when a provisional patent application will be made publicly available for inspection. If a non-provisional patent application is filed claiming priority to the provisional patent application and the non-provisional patent application is either (i) published or (ii) granted as a patent, then the public may download a copy of the provisional patent application via Public PAIR or request a copy of the provisional patent application. It is important to note that this is not publication of the provisional patent application and the provisional patent application cannot be publicly searched - the only access is provided by Public PAIR or a direct request from the public to inspect the provisional at the U.S. Patent Office.

And I promise you that any big company who has anything that could remotely be associated with your device will offer up those patent challenges to keep you from getting YOUR device to market. If I have presented information here that is not true. Believe me, it is not my intention. What I am trying to make clear is that a patent application is a BAD idea for MANY reasons. If I have confused the issue with the terms provisional patent and patent, it was not my intention. All provisional patents MUST eventually become patents, or they die.

It is too late for me to respond to everything else that was posted, but give me a few hours.

By the way...WIPO is the World Intellectual Property Organization. They have tons of information on international patents and the issues surrounding "Public Domain".

Dave

[fan1701]

Hi Turion. I like #4 with this twist. Drop it like a bomb on the internet. Multiple sites at the same time. A complete system with all the details needed. This to be done in a way that can be built by the serious and easily confirmed. Once it is out in multiple places it cannot simply disappear. The guys trying to make money always get stopped. You cannot play that game and win so don't play it at all.

If it is done to advance the average man with no expectation of return the chances of "them" stopping you go way down. Look at the guy that posted the 3d printed gun. The feds jumped on him but those plans are still out there. They have him tied up legally but others can pick up and go from there. He is trying to fight it out but we know how that will go. His mistake was not posting the plans all over the place at the same time. If he can design a plastic gun then someone else can do it too. This should be the template.

I appreciate your posts and others that are serious. I know I'm a lurker mostly with no real cred but I read this forum and ESF daily and build when I can.

My wish is that the hordes of nay-sayer zombies at this forum and ESF would be smacked down permanently for all the stalling and spamming they do. Guys can't even get the info they want out without those trolls doing anything and everything to confuse , confound , irritate, argue , misdirect , and stall both the guys trying to learn and present information. It makes me so angry.

Wish you all the luck in this new thread. Give 'em heck!

al

[Turion]

Ernst,
if you go to this page
https://www.google.com/gws_rd=ssl#q=...blic+domain%3F
The second thing down on the page is a document from the WIPO with tons of info on patents and "Public Domain." You will see that Pubic Domain doesn't protect information as well as so many seem to THINK it does from being patented.

Better to go with a Creative Commons License
Creative Commons ? Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported ? CC BY-SA 3.0
Creative Commons Legal Code

If you have an actual working DEVICE, and can provide videos of it working with the proper test equipment connected, start putting a package together as I have suggested. I can promise you that I know at LEAST a dozen people that are far enough off the grid they could build whatever they WANT in their backyard and their neighbors would be too far away to ever even SEE it.

If what you have is KNOWLEDGE of how to make such a device, but you haven't built it yet, you are in a bad spot. Most people don't want to spend the time and money to build ANYTHING until they have seen at least SOMETHING that looks like it might work, or plans that look like they might work because they incorporate something new that they have not seen before

Dave