Earth resonance

[dragon]

I didn't take it as any disrespect, I find the whole "earth" energy quite fascinating. Some quick calculations led me to the approximate frequencies... depending on one's location...

full wave at 23.5 hz
half wave at 11.75 hz
quarter wave at 5.87 hz

It doesn't seem they would vary to much - a few hundred feet plus or minus.

Ernst, if you do split the earth, give a fair warning so I know which half of my property I should build on.... I'd hate to get stuck on the bum half... although I do own some property on mars....

[Ernst]

First, thank you Dragon for your contribution here. I know Earth currents and related electrical effects are fascinating. I have done some experiments in that line too, but was unable to create useful effects. Perhaps you should post your findings in a thread on telluric currents, so they are easier to find for those who are interested. If I am correct there already is such thread here and if not, please do open one and post your experiments there. They are interesting enough!
In this thread they will get lost, because I do not see how they are related to Earth resonance, which is the subject of this thread. For that same reason I am not going to respond to it here. I hope you'll understand and also hope that you will elaborate on your experiments (but in another thread).

@ Grumage,
I thought it always rains in GB? I was surprised to see it didn't rain in those two videos!
Was that the slightly curious effect you were referring to?
I can imagine that pressure waves in the ground increase the resistance and thus cause a (locally) higher voltage, but I would not have expected the effect to be that large!
The effect that RAMSET mentioned could be caused by some natural resonance in the Earth, so I think it is OK to investigate this here.
Resonance effects that I have seen have a different signature than that what I read about your experiment. But it could also be that my interpretation is wrong and therefore a video would help a lot. Still better would be to replicate your experiments here, which I can and will do later this week.
So, no apologies needed. Let's see what is happening here.

The initial intention of this thread is related to this:
1908, The Future of Wireless Art:

When the earth is struck mechanically, as is the case in some powerful terrestrial upheaval, it vibrates like a bell, its period being measured in hours. When it is struck electrically, the charge oscillates, approximately, twelve times a second. By impressing upon it current waves of certain lengths, definitely related to its diameter, the globe is thrown into resonant vibration like a wire, stationary waves forming, the nodal and ventral regions of which can be located with mathematical precision.

1909-12-24, Nikola Tesla's New Wireless:

Mr. Tesla adds that in his experiments in Colorado it was shown that a very powerful current developed by the transmitter traversed the entire globe and returned to its origin in an interval of 84 one- thousandths of a second, this journey of 24,000 miles being effected almost without loss of energy.

1913-11-09, Nikola Tesla's Plan to Keep "Wireless Thumb" on Ships at Sea:

The earth is a conductor of electricity, and as such has its own electrical period of vibration. The time of one complete swing is about one-twelfth of a second. In other words, this is the interval the current requires in passing to, and returning from, the diametrically opposite point of the globe.

1916: Pre-hearing interview:

At the first moment, this current propagates exactly like the shadow of the moon at the earth's surface. It starts with infinite velocity from that point, but its speed rapidly diminishes; it flows slower and slower until it reaches the equator, 6,000 miles from the transmitter. At that point, the current flows with the speed of light -- that is, 300,000 kilometres per second. But, if you consider the resultant current through the globe along the axis of symmetry of propagation, the resultant current flows continuously with the same velocity of light.
Whether this current passing through the centre of the earth to the opposite side is real, or whether it is merely an effect of these surface currents, makes absolutely no difference. To understand the concept, one must imagine that the current from the transmitter flows straight to the opposite point of the globe.

1921-09-24, Interplanetary Communication:

While I am not prepared to discuss the various aspects of this subject at length, I may say that a skilful experimenter who is in the position to expend considerable money and time will undoubtedly detect waves of about 25,470,000 m.

As you can see he mentions the frequency, the period, the wavelength and explains the mode of propagation so you can calculate these for yourself.
He could not be more specific. Yet people continue saying that he was talking about the Schumann frequencies.
The most important thing to break through this wall of disbelieve (let me use a friendly term here ) is to show what Tesla was talking about and prove that it is true.
No one that I know of has done so up until last week.
So I am still interested to hear about attempts by others, especially successful ones!

Here is a preliminary image of my proof. These are 6 fragments of an experiment captured with a high speed camera. I have cut pieces of each frame showing:
- two anti-parallel blue LEDs showing the phase of the input current (50Hz)
- 1 super bright white LED showing resonance in a receiver coil (not relevant in this test)
- the spark gap
The yellow sine wave is simply derived from those two blue LEDs. At its top the power supply is feeding 22KV into the system, at the bottom it is 0V.
Each line shows a powerful break of the RSG at the left, because that break takes place during a maximum from the power supply.
The second break (to the right) takes place just after a maximum and lasts for only 1 frame, the next frame the RSG is dark again, meaning that the caps are drained.
Then exactly 85 ms after the maximum of the first break we see the spark gap fire again.
As the power supply is at 11KV (not enough to cause a break) and the primary caps are drained, the coils have discharged their energy, there is no energy in the system to cause this second (third if you like) break. So this energy has to come from outside. It is the echo of the first pulse, coming back into my secondary coil.
One probably needs some time to understand the meaning of this picture and my explanation may not be as clear as intended.... But a video and pdf will follow as soon as time allows.


Ernst.

[Sputins]

Electrical Hammer

The initial intention of this thread is related to this:
1908, The Future of Wireless Art:

1909-12-24, Nikola Tesla's New Wireless:

1913-11-09, Nikola Tesla's Plan to Keep "Wireless Thumb" on Ships at Sea:

1916: Pre-hearing interview:

1921-09-24, Interplanetary Communication:

As you can see he mentions the frequency, the period, the wavelength and explains the mode of propagation so you can calculate these for yourself.
He could not be more specific. Yet people continue saying that he was talking about the Schumann frequencies.
The most important thing to break through this wall of disbelieve (let me use a friendly term here ) is to show what Tesla was talking about and prove that it is true.
No one that I know of has done so up until last week.
So I am still interested to hear about attempts by others, especially successful ones!
Ernst.

So given the wavelength given by Tesla, 25,470,000 meters, the Frequency calculates out to 11.7785 Hz. Or approximately, 12Hz.

So for argument sake let’s take that from Tesla as being 100% correct.

So for an Earth Resonance Effect, I would need to strike the Earth with my “electrical hammer” 12 times per second?

Suppose I have a Tesla coil with a main carrier Ro frequency is 1Mhz. Suppose the Tesla coil is configured for monopolar transmission into the earth. At the 1Mhz carrier frequency I would not achieve earth resonance.
But if I pulsed the 1Mhz carrier frequency or modulated it at 12Hz, (or harmonics thereof), I might then expect to detect return earth echoes or effects of earth resonance?

Likely the optimum carrier frequency is much lower than 1Mhz, as Tesla was using around 30Khz to 80Khz, or thereabouts which he states is optimal for Earth transmission.

I wonder what the minimum force (or strike effort) would be necessary from my “electrical hammer” to invoke a reflection from the other side of the earth to receive a detectable return or echo through the earth?

[Jeff Pearson]

Woo Hoo congragulations Ernst.
and could Sputins PWM his 1Mhz signal at 11.7785 for the earth to see it as the lower freq

[Ernst]

So given the wavelength given by Tesla, 25,470,000 meters, the Frequency calculates out to 11.7785 Hz. Or approximately, 12Hz.

So for argument sake let’s take that from Tesla as being 100% correct.

So for an Earth Resonance Effect, I would need to strike the Earth with my “electrical hammer” 12 times per second?

Suppose I have a Tesla coil with a main carrier Ro frequency is 1Mhz. Suppose the Tesla coil is configured for monopolar transmission into the earth. At the 1Mhz carrier frequency I would not achieve earth resonance.
But if I pulsed the 1Mhz carrier frequency or modulated it at 12Hz, (or harmonics thereof), I might then expect to detect return earth echoes or effects of earth resonance?

Likely the optimum carrier frequency is much lower than 1Mhz, as Tesla was using around 30Khz to 80Khz, or thereabouts which he states is optimal for Earth transmission.

I wonder what the minimum force (or strike effort) would be necessary from my “electrical hammer” to invoke a reflection from the other side of the earth to receive a detectable return or echo through the earth?

Yes, to all your statements and questions except for the last to which my answer is:
According to Tesla about 1 HP (roughly 750 Watt, but I forgot where he said so). I could see effects at 800 Watt, but could not at 100 Watt. The voltage is also important; as virtually the entire resistance is at the point of entry the higher the voltage at that point the better. The first tests in which I noticed something "odd" I was producing about 520 KV, the current tests are 800 KV - 1.1 MV.

Also a "Yes", to Jeff's question.


Ernst.

[RAMSET]

Ernst
Yes i do think resonance or some harmonic plays a part in Grahams experiment
He did mention a very specific frequency where things took an abrupt
Direction .

Also to note I was unaware of you eminent planetary subdivisions , perhaps
You should proceed with great care as i have heard lately that the planet could be... flat...

Congratulations

Chet

[dragon]

First, thank you Dragon for your contribution here. I know Earth currents and related electrical effects are fascinating. I have done some experiments in that line too, but was unable to create useful effects. Perhaps you should post your findings in a thread on telluric currents, so they are easier to find for those who are interested. If I am correct there already is such thread here and if not, please do open one and post your experiments there. They are interesting enough!
In this thread they will get lost, because I do not see how they are related to Earth resonance, which is the subject of this thread. For that same reason I am not going to respond to it here. I hope you'll understand and also hope that you will elaborate on your experiments (but in another thread).


Ernst.

Understood, my appologies....

[Grumage]

Video.

Dear Ernst.

I managed to put together a hurried video today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXPtdzhSdfw

This time earth rod separation was nearer 10 M but nowhere near the marked observations made last year. Possibly the rather wet condition ??

Cheers Grum.

[Sputins]

800 Watt

Yes, to all your statements and questions except for the last to which my answer is:
According to Tesla about 1 HP (roughly 750 Watt, but I forgot where he said so). I could see effects at 800 Watt, but could not at 100 Watt. The voltage is also important; as virtually the entire resistance is at the point of entry the higher the voltage at that point the better. The first tests in which I noticed something "odd" I was producing about 520 KV, the current tests are 800 KV - 1.1 MV.

Also a "Yes", to Jeff's question.


Ernst.

Ernst (& Jeff),
Thanks for answering my question that I was attempting to ask, pretty well exactly with the words of Tesla.

“I could see effects at 800 Watt, but could not at 100 Watt”.

So likely, I would not be successful to achieve an earth “ping” with a 100W TMT rig. However given a 1KW rig, then I might have half a chance.

Also the words; “The voltage is also important; as virtually “the entire resistance is at the point of entry” – So there is an initial “resistance” at the point of entry to overcome…

And thus:

“The higher the voltage at that [entry] point the better. The first tests in which I noticed something "odd" I was producing about 520 KV, the current tests are 800 KV - 1.1 MV”.

Okay. Does Tesla elaborate on what he means or what occurred for Tesla to say, “I noticed something odd”?

Your system might be indeed be producing an "earth pings", it certainly is powerful enough. - So if you have achieved that and can show it, then you really have something, or reward for effort.

You'll just have to find a method of apparatus for your system to enable a sweep modulation within the 3 to 20hz range... Maybe you already have.

[Ernst]

A quick reply, because I have to go....

@ Sputins,
You are mixing up my words with those of Tesla.
“I could see effects at 800 Watt, but could not at 100 Watt”. are my words, the "I" referring to me.
Well, in short, the whole reply are my words.
The "odd" thing I first noticed is that my 520 KV coil got "growing streamers" indicating a possible rise of potential to about 1MV. I will show you it in my next video, although there should already be one on the web somewhere.
I already have means for exact modulation. I have a RSG of which its rotary speed can be controlled with a 6 digits accuracy.

@ Grumage,
Thanks, I will have a look later....

@ dragon,
None needed. Thanks for understanding!

@ RAMSET,
So my initial interpretation was wrong. See, that is why video's are so helpful.
If there is a very abrupt change, then that could be the signature of resonance.

Ok, more later.


Ernst.

[Sputins]

Earth Pings

A quick reply, because I have to go....

@ Sputins,
You are mixing up my words with those of Tesla.
“I could see effects at 800 Watt, but could not at 100 Watt”. are my words, the "I" referring to me.
Well, in short, the whole reply are my words.
The "odd" thing I first noticed is that my 520 KV coil got "growing streamers" indicating a possible rise of potential to about 1MV. I will show you it in my next video, although there should already be one on the web somewhere.
I already have means for exact modulation. I have a RSG of which its rotary speed can be controlled with a 6 digits accuracy.

Oh okay, sorry for the mix up. And usually you put some reference note with any quotes from Tesla. - So Tesla said 1HP but that reference is yet to be located.

Generally from your observations and the 1Hp value Tesla mentions, a minimal power level for a TMT rig to produce “Earth Pings” would be around 1KW.

Perhaps as the TMT produces its currents, with a specific modulation, these currents resonate or ping with the earth itself. During this process, it might be feasible that a tiny percentage of Natural Telluric Currents from inside the earth couple with the currents produced by the TMT to give rise to an increase in the overall TMT output?

[Ernst]

@ Grumage,

here some pictures of my replication in very dry ground.
One ground pin (17 m) reaches ground water (at 10 m), the other (3 m) is in relatively dry ground. The pins are not so far apart. First I thought about 8 m, now I think it is more like 5 m.

Blue is SG (that is Signal Generator, not School Girl. For the Bedini enthusiasts )
Yellow is return wire.
(Not much care has been taken to fully isolate the system. More like none. Also the 3m ground pin wire is running along side mains for a couple of meters.)

Starting at roughly 500 KHz I see a higher amplitude on the return wire.
Starting at roughly 2 MHz the amplitude on the return wire gets lower.
Around 1500 KHz I get a lot of interference, starting around 1 MHz, increasing to 1500 KHz and then very rapidly disappearing again.
This pattern, first slowly rising, then more rapidly and then a sudden drop, that is exactly what resonance would do.
But the maximum of 1500 KHz is suspicious. Why not 1516.76 or 1493.64?
1500 KHz is probably something artificial.

More later. I have to think about this.


Ernst.

[dragon]

Just thinking out loud... with the distance between the rods being 5 meters, an approximate quarter wave length of around 15 Mhz - 1.5 Mhz might be a sufficient stimulus.

My grounds are 30ft apart (N-S) N is 60ft deep (into the water table) and S is 15ft deep. A quarter wavelength of approx 8 Mhz and the magic number of 1.6 Mhz seems a sufficient stimulus for a return p-p voltage in excess of the original signal.

Is it the depth/length of the antenna picking up the signal, the distance between them or is it traversing the entire globe and returning?

[Ernst]

Well, something is happening, so we will have to vary all parameters, one at a time, to see which could be the guilty one. That seems the most logical path to me.

Since Grumage does not have a SG that covers the range that we need, perhaps you could check these out.
There are 2MHz, 5MHz, 8MHz, 10MHz modules and I think they have added a 12 MHz version too. But the 5 MHz one would do just fine.

If we can establish that, as Dragon says/thinks the resonance frequency could be a function of the distance between the ground pins, then Grumage could be helped by putting them further apart thus bringing the frequency within the range of his SG.

I would need to go out into my "garden" armed with ground pins, wire, SG and scope. Something I may do when time and weather allows.


Ernst.

[dragon]

Do the waves travel straight out of the earth connection and traverse the earth then return or is it more like ripples in a pond extending outward? We know we can connect an exciter to one ground and see the results on the other and/or add another coil tuned to the same frequency and excite the second coil. So, we could effectively find this circular wave length (ripple) and drive several receiving exciters from the epicenter at various points and distances within that circle of ripples.

We know we can establish a voltage gain between grounds and we know there is a telluric current flowing within the established gain so it would stand to reason that we could theoretically establish a power gain by combining our input with these existing currents.

Ernst, Since you've reached your original goal here - it would be interesting to hear a little about your end game for this experiment. We might be able to expand into this area with you. I've established my own goals for this research and as you've stated isn't necessarily the direction your taking.