Lockridge, or 2x Von Siemens ?

[wantomake]

Lazy brain

I've been reviewing the Lockridge videos, trying to get back up to speed.

Lockridge apparently used (only) Delco-Remy generators to duplicate the Bosch device.

Here's 1944 service manual for Delco-Remy generators, etc.

http://www.easy39th.com/files/TM_9-1...my%29_1944.pdf

One of the videos shows a hand-drawn diagram of the LD with two external black boxes. The above manual shows little boxes containing a couple of electro-mechanical relays. Someone said that the LD made a clicking noise when it ran. Mechanical relays fit that bill.

The videos say (1) that the armature was not modified (although the stator coils were moved) and (2) one winding of the tri-filar coil acted like an AC transformer to light the 300W lamps.

The armature is a many-pole DC generator with split commutators. This should produce DC (not AC) with fairly small ripple. Hence, I conclude that transformer effect could not have been used in the original LD. Am I missing something?

pault,
My apologies. You posted the pdf. The morning cup of coffee had not kicked in yet.

I poured over and over that video to glean as much info as possible. Two notebooks and tired brains to boot. I really studied a lot to just to be able to get to the motor part of the machine. But got little generated voltage output.

But anyway I enjoyed the experience with the Lockridge device,
wantomake

[mbrownn]

One of the videos shows a hand-drawn diagram of the LD with two external black boxes. The above manual shows little boxes containing a couple of electro-mechanical relays. Someone said that the LD made a clicking noise when it ran. Mechanical relays fit that bill.

Interesting

The videos say (1) that the armature was not modified (although the stator coils were moved) and (2) one winding of the tri-filar coil acted like an AC transformer to light the 300W lamps.

Correct, thats what the video says but I disagree. Firstly the only device they had was an attempted modification of the original device with transistors etc. From that we could assume it was being pulsed although there are other possibilities. The standard armature would work with pulses but would not pulse on its own like it would need to in the original device. If the electronics were designed to make it pulse, I assumed that the original device also pulsed.

I also carried out some tests using DC, pulsed DC and AC and from those found strong transformer actions with the pulsed DC and AC. This seemed to be logical as a method of getting a second electrical output other than the generated one.

In conclusion to make the device pulse without an external commutator or electronics, the armature has to be modified, and this is my favoured position at this time.

The armature is a many-pole DC generator with split commutators. This should produce DC (not AC) with fairly small ripple. Hence, I conclude that transformer effect could not have been used in the original LD. Am I missing something?

The only thing your missing is that the device JB has is not an original device but a modified unit with electronics. With external pulsing we can get a standard armature to give strong transformer actions, so yes it may have been using them. Without, we have to use a modified armature.

There are still some options to be tried with the standard armature as it appears to be a form of wave winding and not lap. I haven’t had access to such a winding.

Do you see where this is going? .... What im getting at is that it will be unlikely that I will succeed using starter motors and universal motors as the efficiency and make up is not right. To build a Lockridge we need the right parts ie the original Bosch or delco generators.

[mbrownn]

To all,

My input is only what I have done and what I believe, It may work differently, so do not overlook anything. Try everything, Trial and error was the way that I moved forward and I recommend you do the same. The goal is to make it work and if we work together, even if we are trying different things, we will progress faster.

[Hiwater]

Wantomake--No, I don't have a clue as to what those generators came off from. Would be nice to find out more info on them though.

[marseye]

Sorry for I'm digging up that old subjet, but an idea just poped-up.

It started after I just had been wondering how was Edison's CC generated. So was I remembered that it had depended upon the dynamo invention ! (alternators and AC had got popularized later).

And what's the difference between an alternator and a dynamo ? The coiling, of course !

With a dynamo, the coil (stator) is wrapped along the alernating poles path. With an alternator, the coil is wrapped across.

Can't it make sense if we consider the case's manmade openings in the Lockridge device, then the trifilar coil wrapped around the case, along the rotor's electromagnetic path ?

I preferred to share my thoughts here, as I wish s.o. could try to check that before I can (I actualy still have no room, nor the convenient equipment to set this experiment up).

What do you think ? Has anyone around a good knowledge about dynamo's output capabilities ? Could it be better for the 2 systems (dynamo and alternator) to share the same electromagnetic rotor ? (since in both cases, there's a BEMF arising for each... Can they cooperate ? Are they in sync, or do they alternate ?) Certainly, the output current must be regulated (hence the "capacitor)". Any rectification device seem to have been always missing. Missing, or forgotten from the general scheme ?


Just my 2 cents.

[wantomake]

Moving on

Sorry for I'm digging up that old subjet, but an idea just poped-up.

It started after I just had been wondering how was Edison's CC generated. So was I remembered that it had depended upon the dynamo invention ! (alternators and AC had got popularized later).

And what's the difference between an alternator and a dynamo ? The coiling, of course !

With a dynamo, the coil (stator) is wrapped along the alernating poles path. With an alternator, the coil is wrapped across.

Can't it make sense if we consider the case's manmade openings in the Lockridge device, then the trifilar coil wrapped around the case, along the rotor's electromagnetic path ?

I preferred to share my thoughts here, as I wish s.o. could try to check that before I can (I actualy still have no room, nor the convenient equipment to set this experiment up).

What do you think ? Has anyone around a good knowledge about dynamo's output capabilities ? Could it be better for the 2 systems (dynamo and alternator) to share the same electromagnetic rotor ? (since in both cases, there's a BEMF arising for each... Can they cooperate ? Are they in sync, or do they alternate ?) Certainly, the output current must be regulated (hence the "capacitor)". Any rectification device seem to have been always missing. Missing, or forgotten from the general scheme ?


Just my 2 cents.

Marseye,
I don't think the trifilar coil is close enough to the armature to create any flux movements that can be measured. Also the case is there also between them. Not to forget the field coils also.
The cut in the case is still a mystery to me. Some think it's to create a transformer effect, stop hysteresis, cooling of the motor? I tested my build with a large hand made trifilar coil and capacitor wrapped around the case, but got no noticeable measurements in the coil or capacitor when spinning the armature in the generation mode.

Like I posted earlier, spent a lot of funds and time on builds, but my ability to put the different technologies together in this single unit is lacking.

Therefore like most here, I put that aside and moved on to other projects.

wantomake

[marseye]

Hi wantomake,

Nice job you've done so far. No one can blame you for puting this aside. Keep the faith that further relevant ideas could re-grow your will to saddle-on back up (I never said that my ideas had such power)

To all:

I have more questions inside :

• can the back of the electro-coils from the stator inside of the Lockridge device to "magnetize" the case (is the back pole driving its case portion to a fixed pole zone ? Or the magnetism isn't shaded, going through the case ?) ?
• might the open slots leave some resulting "moving/passing magnetism" to come out (reach the trifilar) to futher disturb (help move) the current potentially already generated in the trifilar from the stator's electro-magnets ?

Please follow me : a North magnetic pole "feeds" a coil by pushing the free-electrons (electrons have a negative electronic sign) in the collecting coil's copper. A South magnetic pole attracts the electrons, hence the movement from free-electrons in the coil. (charges alike repel each other ; charges opposed attract each other. That's why a balloon sticks to my hair after it's been rubbed against , let's say, felt : the balloon and my hair are now of opposite electr(on)ic sign.

Let's remember what our missed John B. did say about the shape of two alike poles converting into a super pole. Weren't he slots conveniently open between the stator's alike electromagnets ? Which can be the superpoles evolution in front of the attracting or repulsing faces of the rotor's armature ?

Damn, my head is boiling, and I'm feeling frustrated not to be able to check my thoughts... My best might be about trying with a joule thief, at least to check if I can get something back, and how much (a self-running joule thief would alredy be a miracle, isn't it ? But the Lockridge device once existed, as several were in the wild, right ? The underlying principle, though clever, might not have been exactly hi-tech !)

[Hiwater]

Good to hear the discussion. Keep it up guys.

[wantomake]

Many theories

Hiwater,
Long time no read. Much discussion for sure is needed to finish this elusive dream.

There are motor/generator types out there already. The modified Matthew motor on the 3BGS thread will produce voltage as it motors along. Take two of the four brushes for motoring, and use two remaining brushes to collect bemf or energy. But it causes arching on the source(power input) brushes.

The component that stores the Input/output power is the golden grail of this device. How does a component receive, hold, and release energy at the same time. No type of battery or capacitor does this. That I know of. Did the trifilar coil power the capacitor that was wrapped around it? And the capacitor was the source of input to the motor? Or was it vise versa? Did the large flywheel keep the motor spinning as it switched from motor to generator to power the capacitor, then switch back to motor mode?

Most of my time and research is spent on this part of this device. I've seen it called a coilpacitor. I build thumb sized ones up to one that fits over the case of the device. It was only a prototype and not constructed as John B. said in the video. So I don't know. Maybe I'm way off here. I'm open to correction and teachable.

Just some of my experiences on this,
wantomake

[Hiwater]

wantomake. It anybodys guess how the tri coil and capacitor works. One thing to remember is the load drives the (motor function). The magnetic field thru the armature
when the gen pole shoes are in the right position.

The back spike should not interfere with the motoring function it just charging a capacitor.
To be switched in and out of motoring side.

[mbrownn]

Its good to see you guys thinking about the case. The case is a big lump of iron, it will attract flux, and at the voltages and current we are considering it is unlikely much flux will escape that case.

Even with opposing poles creating a super pole, I doubt that much will escape through the slot in the case as the flux will by its nature bend towards a large lump of iron. For these reasons I believe that the flux is supposed to remain in the case.

I believe the split in the case is to create separate paths for the flux, and specifically create a path that causes rotational torque while generating.

Take a look at this thread where I explain how the generator works and how it creates torque at the same time http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ing-motor.html In this thread I discuss how the device is used as a DC generator or dynamo. This is very important to understanding some of the principals we are using. You will also see how the slots in the case cause the flux to make this happen. It is counter intuitive but
everything is standard electrical and magnetic principals.

The lockridge device is likely pulsing so now we have a changing field which will create a form of AC and this is where it gets complicated, but please spend some time understanding the process of generation used and how it creates torque.

I believe the capacitor is for recovery of inductive kickback and the trifilar coil has more than one purpose.