Splitting The Positive

[BroMikey]

By the numbers



The discharging under a load voltage is 11.51v which after disconnecting
from the load read 11.57v. This means we have used up 30% of the 50%
we started with now have 20% to burn.

The watt hours are 205 after 18hrs of discharge time. the next entry will
show us a certain path of where this battery voltage will go. Maybe we will
get to 400wh? I don't know but what I do know is that we need this
battery down to 10.45v and may take another 12hrs to do it.

[BroMikey]

New Figures at 1:00am


watt Hour = 270 and the voltage loaded as the LED light on the inverter
discharging the battery is 11.24v which when stopped goes to 11.29v

According to all of my figures each 6hr period gives a 60wh addition
and a .25 voltage drop. This has been a consistent. This means that
I will collect at least another 150 wh or so depending on how the curve
on these batteries drop off and when, but it will be well into Wednesday
afternoon before this happens?

Looks like i'll be getting the full 210watt hours out of this 4 battery
set that was only charged up to 50% or maybe a tiny bit more. It looks
like it may have been closer to 60% charged and that according to
calculations (if everything keeps going the same way) I will get
270wh + 180wh = 450wh

So let's see what actually happens, you never know until you get there.

But remember that the only source of power ins in the two 4packs that
are both 12v 840wh each giving us a total of 2 X 840 = 1680wh

My question would be if battery voltages show that the third battery
being conditioned has a 60% charge and we ran it thru the motor first
and the MOD MTR ran 940ma at an average voltage of 12.65v for some
15hrs how's comes the main pack said it didn't record a loss?
But i can't be sure til I get done.

Averaging at 900ma at 12.65v over a 15 hr period is 170wh that must
be accounted for. If this ENERGIZER followed the same rules as a
typical scooter motor only half of the watt hours would go to the
battery while the motor burns the other half.

Yet i have great torque and RPM's on this MOD MTR but the batteries
say that it isn't there. Even if i did fill the 3rd battery up 60% which
is 500wh if the Mod Mtr takes 160-165 wh to run, I should only see
330wh to the third battery and it looks more like I am going to get
450wh.

Am I jumping the gun here? Maybe. However meters don't lie and these
batteries are not done discharging yet so let's see what happens.




It is only 3 hrs later 4:00am and my battery dropped a bunch more
than I had anticipated way down to 10.92v from 11.24v at 1:00am

that is a .11v drop per hour and won't make it thru the night.

With only a little over 300 watt hours it does look like the motor took
some and the battery got some. but we can't be sure yet til the entire
run battery pack has been fully discharged across the MOD MTR into
the third pack. Meters don't lie.

Big drop at 5:30am to 10.6v so I stopped and right away started
generating without waiting. I am going to up the discharge rate to a
C/20 instead of a C/60 rate next time. However I wanted to go way
down very slow so I can get the plates cleaner. I may use the 3 amp
discharge rate or 2.5 amp using either a 15 watt bulb or a 25 watt.

[BroMikey]

WENT BACK TO GENERATING
5:30 am - 3:30am voltage on run pack = 24.3v
diff= 12.6
charge= 11.75v

I'll be back to update this tiny page, thanks for looking

7:00pm run bats 24.1v
diff. =12.3v
charge =11.90v

last time I stopped when the differential voltage was only .25v apart.

The main thing I need to stress is that convention motors take half and
half goes to the charge batteries. In the case of the reversing double
north pole ENERGIZER the MOD MTR version passes 2/3rd of pumped
energy to the battery and only uses 1/3rd of the amount it pumps.

The torque is great so we will see, maybe a comparison test on shaft
torque MODMTR Vs. reg 24v scooter mtr? Or a 36v unit I have setting
on the shelf. I have a couple of small stepper mtr's or a cordless
drill mtr run backwards? Still thinking. And then there is the MOD MTR
GENERATOR combo or 2 mod mtrs using one to generate.

PS I forgot to state that so far out of the 420wh of charge that left
battery 1&2 approx. 100wh went to the MOD MTR and 316wh is what
I burned on the inverter.

There I hope I said that right this time. Sorry about the mix up I have
a lot to do and think about, however the run pack by the voltages
had shown that 25% had been used up and the ENERGIZER MOD MTR
had passed 316wh or more (I stopped 1 hr short of 10.45v) to the
charge battery leaving 100wh to have been burnt by the MTR?

Still reasoning this out guys.

[BroMikey]

Hello Group members and Guests

I had some time to review my data more carefully and have spotted
one error. The Run pack, on first run (second run in progress) DROPPED
right at 10% this means that the run packs were setting at 25.00v but
i stated previously that it had dropped 25%, sorry the figure is 10% as
a battery at 12.5v is 90% charged and we have 2 in series. This is 25v
or 12.5v +12.5v = 25v at 90% charged with 10% leaving the run packs
going thru the mod MTR and on to the charge batteries.

Not that I have everyone thoroughly confused that me refresh you all
(And myself) about the quality of energy in the run pack. Each 4 battery
sectional can produce 210wh so that number times 4 or:

210 X 4 = 840wh and that is for one of the 2 twelve voltage packs.

So the total available energy (again) in the run packs is 1680watt hours
and when the voltage dropped to 25v that meant that I had used 10%
out of it. We all know what 10% of 1680 is =168wh and yet I ran a
MOD MTR for 15hrs on about 160wh and another 316wh came out of
the charge battery.

I have to much to do but i did catch my mistake. I will be back to
repeat this and keep verifying with the number 2 test. So far it looks like
160wh was used up and over 400wh realized.

[BroMikey]

Okay another Error

But I will arrive at the correct answers. When I do, I am comin thru.

I did not make the critical reading on the run battery originally.

here they are 25.8v startup and after 1 cycle with the modifed
motor the resting voltage after the next day actually read 24.80v
which shows a 20% drop. This held true for the second run for
another 20% drop reading 24.24v resting.

Since the run battery can hold a max of 1680wh we can find a 20%
value as follows:

Each battery holds 210wh and there are 8 of them in the set. This is:

210 X 8 =1680wh in the run battery and 20% of that is :

1680 X .2 = 336wh that went out of the run battery set thru the Mod
Mtr into the 3rd battery array.

Yet when I asked for a return amount of energy on the 3rd battery,
I only got back 316 watt hours, so where did the 20 watt hours go?

Well they were probably used by the modified motor.

I'll be back this is blowing me away.

Here is a vid for yins

bare with me, I am just now starting to get my head on straight how
to talk about what comes out and what it does that i can not apply
to normal math.

It is fairly clear that the mod mtr is getting close to a free ride and
I don't have a cap and zener on it yet or a booster. Pretty crazy.

https://youtu.be/VA3MLNsL-Qg

[BroMikey]

The Total watts

The most important measurement is how much went out of the run
battery and how much did I collect out of the charge battery.

The first generation revealed a 55% charge on the third battery while
using 20% on the meter on run battery, 20% of 1680wh that is

1680 X .2 = 336wh and I got back 314wh out of the charge battery
plus the theoretical 160wh of mechanical energy out of the MOD MTR.

It does not add up folks.

Next the second generation using 30% of battery life on the run packs
for only a 30% charge bat, pathetic and that is due to the failing differential
as the run pack begins to drop. The MOD MTR is running longer and
slower at the reduced differential voltages and less capable of charging
the 3 rd battery. It took 500wh of extended runtime at nearly nothing
differential voltages only to get back only half of the first run amount
of 150wh.

The conclusion is that I am conditioning plates, waiting for boosters to
come in the mail. Looks like I will have to drill down into the earth clear
to China to get what i need.

So this second test or discharge with collection efficiency measurements
have shown that keeping the differential up on the positive MOD MTR
leg is critical to moving a charge. This has been pointed out by all of
the lead players.

I just can't wait, got to be doing something. One guy hung a zener and
cap across the MOD MTR to increase ever slowing pulses. This charged
the 3rd battery up a little better without so much waste.

The boosters will raise the volt on all the packs safe guarding them
against a low voltage sulfating condition and who knows what else,
but something must be done.

On the second run with 500wh spent and 150wh collected I can't figure
out where the energy went. The Mod MTR at best at these lower
speeds would not show a theoretical usage of more than 150wh
that leaves 200wh up in smoke.

By rights I should have stopped the run once differential voltages
dropped to low values but I was on the road at the time.

Third run now in progress. The biggest thing I have learned is how
to look at the run pack voltages and can see the need for a battery
analyzer for accurate reading in this research.

The third run battery reading for the 3rd generating showed a 24.24v or
a half a battery or 840wh available.

[BroMikey]

Modified Motor Reverse Charging

New developments and solutions.


https://youtu.be/ohqxvyIAnyk

[SkyWatcher]

Hi mike, thanks for sharing, I'm watching your progress and learning some things as you go.
As for me, I'm deviating briefly into some other tests.
I'm using my Alex Meissner oscillator to condition one of my tractor batteries, using just the one diode off the collector, open loop style.
Going to cycle it until i get the chemistry change inside, as bedini and others talked about.
That modified matt motor, in my opinion, is doing similar things, though not strictly radiant, open loop style, as i'm testing now.
Keep up the good work.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

Thanks Sky

Sounds like you are making progress. On mine I think maybe I'll
check for shorts to ground or what. Maybe the brushes made enough
deposits in the cracks of the commutator and going the other way
helps.

Not sure which way I wound the rotor or if any of that matters. I am
wondering if a rotor wound one forward and one backwards might work
like a Kromrey. But then I would have to drill a hole.

Anyway the main thing is that if I go the other way 1.5amps won't
charge anything and turn it around and it goes right up normal.

So it looks like all of my data is fraudulent up to this point. I can't trust
any of it.

PS short to ground is right, be back with vid soon

[BroMikey]

Split Positive Modified Motor Rewinding

MOTOR UP AND RUNNING AGAIN

The battery 3 was already charged up and floated up again and
again easily off the inverter running 1.3 amps, connect it to the
Mod Mtr and at 3 amps it just sits there and won't climb up over
13.2v.


https://youtu.be/DwWvTd8Ni1M

[BroMikey]

Basics

This is the efficiency of battery charging based solely on how many electrons you push in. If you compare watts in to watts out you have to take into account that the battery charging voltage is higher than the battery discharging voltage. The coulometric charging efficiency of flooded lead acid batteries is typically 70%, meaning that you must put 142 amp hours into the battery for every 100 amp hours you get out. This varies somewhat depending on the temperature, speed of charge, and battery type.

Sealed lead acid batteries are higher in charge efficiency, depending on the bulk charge voltage it can be higher than 95%.


Anything above 2.15 volts per cell will charge a lead acid battery, this is the voltage of the basic chemistry. This also means than nothing below 2.15 volts per cell will do any charging (12.9V for a 12V battery) However, most of the time a higher voltage than this is used because it forces the charging reaction at a higher rate. Charging at the miminum voltage will take a long long time. As you increase the voltage to get faster charging, the voltage to avoid is the gassing voltage, which limits how high the voltage can go before undesirable chemical reactions take place. The typical charging voltage is between 2.15 volts per cell (12.9 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery) and 2.35 volts per cell (14.1 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery). These voltages are appropriate to apply to a fully charged battery without overcharging or damage. If the battery is not fully charged you can use much higher voltages without damage because the charging reaction takes precedence over any over-charge chemical reactions until the battery is fully charged. This is why a battery charger can operate at 14.4 to 15 volts during the bulk-charge phase of the charge cycle.

The basic lead acid battery is ancient and a lot of different charge methods have been used. In the old days, when voltage was difficult to regulate accurately, flooded lead acid batteries were important because the water can be replaced. The lead acid chemistry is fairly tolerant of overcharging, which allows marketing organizations to get to extremely cheap chargers, even sealed lead acid batteries can recycle the gasses produced to prevent damage to the battery as long as the charge rate is slow. We offer a range of chargers from inexpensive to very sophisticated, depending on the requirements of the customer, but all of the chargers we sell off-the-shelf are highly regulated sophisticated chargers that cannot overcharge the battery.


Some lead acid batteries are used in a standby condition in which they are rarely cycled, but kept constantly on charge. These batteries can be very long lived if they are charged at a float voltage of 2.25 to 2.3 volts/cell (at 25 degrees C) (13.5V to 13.8V for a 12V battery). This low voltage is to prevent the battery from losing water during long float charging. Those batteries that are used in deep discharge cycling mode can be charged up to 2.45 volts/cell (14.7V for a 12V battery) to get the highest charge rate, as long as the voltage is dropped to the float voltage when the charge is complete.


BATTERY CHARGE & ELECTROLYTE


Battery swapping might ruin a battery. Look at the requirements for
decent battery care. As i have run between the positive terminals I
have found that both run and charge batteries may not become fully
charged for days with the wrong setup.

If your system can not charge a battery to 16v it probably can't charge it
to 14.8v either so some form of input, such as solar or wind needs to
bring the run pack to 26.5v at all times especially when your charging
run on the 3rd battery reaches over 13v. A 95% charge is not good
enough to stop the creeping death in the form of sulfates.

I think getting away from lead batteries is a good idea and people who
have now used them enough are getting the drift. My original experiment
used Li-ion and these can be arranged for use with an inverter.

On the other hand a set of boost converters with their minuet losses
in switching will more than pay for themselves in dollars and cents.

I don't care how many spikes hit the battery, if it never reaches a 100%
charge it's days are numbered, measured in days not years. This is only
a reminder however volumes have been written.


Battery life and performance, average battery life has become shorter as energy requirements increase. Two phrases heard most often are "my battery won't take a charge and my battery won't hold a charge". Only 30% of batteries sold today reach the 48-month mark. In fact 80% of all battery failure is related to sulfation build-up. This build up occurs when the sulfur molecules in the electrolyte (battery acid) becomes so deeply discharged that they begin to coat the batteries lead plates. Before long the plates become so coated the battery dies. The causes of sulfation are numerous, let me list some for you.

Batteries sit too long between charges. As little as 24 hours in hot weather and several days in cooler weather.
Battery storage, leaving a battery sit without some type of energy input.
Deep cycling engine start battery, remember these batteries can't stand deep discharge.
Undercharging of battery, to charge a battery let's say 90% of capacity will allow sulfation of battery using the 10% of battery chemistry not reactivated by the incomplete charging cycle.
Heat of 100+°F, increases internal discharge. As temperatures increase so does internal discharge. A new fully charged battery left sitting 24 hours a day at 110 degrees F for 30 days would most likely not start an engine.
Low electrolyte level, battery plates exposed to air will immediately sulfate.
Incorrect charging levels and settings. Most cheap battery chargers can do more damage than help.
Cold weather is hard on the battery the chemistry does not make the same amount of energy as a warm battery. A deeply discharged battery can freeze solid in sub zero weather.
Parasitic drain is a load put on a battery with the key off.

[BroMikey]

Basic 3 Battery Device Chronicles




Turion


When we have schematics for this motor, we can build it. Until then, use something that you already have. An off the shelf motor will work to get you started. You can pulse it by putting a small rotor on the shaft with some magnets on it and use a reed switch.

Get it working first, and THEN worry about what is the best motor and what is the best generator.

Dave





http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/15980d1436114495-basic-free-energy-device-alt-charge-batteries-jpg


http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/16010d1436762637-basic-free-energy-device-img_20150712_083207551-jpg

By adjusting it, we can raise the voltage that hits the third battery to better than 15 volts. The closer to 15 volts we have it, the more efficient the system is and the longer it will run. Don't hit it with 20 volts, just 15. It is adjustable. And remember, as the voltage on your primaries drops (and it will, eventually) once the voltage hitting battery 3 is lower than 15 volts you MUST switch out batteries. Which is WHY you have to have more than 3 batteries to make this system work. Four batteries is a minimum. One ALWAYS needs to be resting after charging. By the way, it is CORRECT that the OUT negative of the boost module isn't connected to anything.

I am NOT saying it will run off the primaries forever. What I am saying is it will run off them for a really, really LONG time, during which your motor, connected to the proper generator, has not only produced lots of power for you, but has also charged up another battery or two. More out than in? You betcha!! Put the pieces together. We have all of them

Boost circuit
Don't forget that the boost circuit allows you to keep the voltage higher than the charge battery. When you have two batteries in series and then a third battery you are trying to charge, the voltage hitting that third battery needs to be at LEAST 2 volts above the battery voltage. So if battery 3 is at 12 volts, you BETTER be hitting it with 14, or you are NOT charging it in a way that is good for the battery. If it is at 12.8, you better be hitting it with 14.8. The boost circuit allows you to do this without too much waste.

Dave

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/16568d1451421966-basic-free-energy-device-boost-circuit-jpg




http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/17243d1466343820-basic-free-energy-device-3bgs-test-measuring-jpg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT7uV0nGGY&feature=youtu.be




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6gj3rDgMV4





http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/17279d1467084620-basic-free-energy-device-3bgs-36v-24v-circuit-jpg






http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/17489d1470248170-basic-free-energy-device-full-machine-jpg

[wantomake]

Good advice but no.

That is my old version of the generator. That one used too many amps to run the motor and eventually the motor would burn up. It just got too hot.

Those are old videos of Matt and I and my machinist running different basic setups. But none of it really worked. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention. Go search for Bigfoot instead. You’ll have better luck. Forget all about this free energy stuff it’s all a fraud. Smoke and mirrors, faulty instruments. Poor measuring techniques. Use whatever excuse seems comfortable to you to explain away the results and just get on with your lives. This is all a terrible waste of time. Don’t fall for it. Take up golf. It’s far less expensive and you’ll get some sun instead of spending all your time huddled over a bench in some garage. Feel better now? Good! My work here is done.

Turion,
Haha. Yes and not golf. Seen too much. Dug too deep. Saw the truth. Found the hidden.

Captured but free.
Besides what other hobby is so much fun?

wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

Forget all about this free energy stuff it’s all a fraud. Smoke and mirrors, faulty instruments. Poor measuring techniques. Use whatever excuse seems comfortable to you to explain away the results and just get on with your lives.

This is all a terrible waste of time. Don’t fall for it. Take up golf. It’s far less expensive and you’ll get some sun instead of spending all your time huddled over a bench in some garage. Feel better now? Good! My work here is done.

Sorry to read the above Turion...You are one of the best researchers and builders that I have seen so far around here (besides me, of course..., just kidding!!)...so, it is sad to see you are disappointed at your development.

What we all have to realize is that this is a long and very rough path we are following...it is FULL of obstacles, disappointments and frustrations...but, think about the reward if we succeed?...see the HUGE CHANGE We will be spreading out to mankind!!

But you are right about being slave of this work without making a REAL living...many things get abandoned on this road...many, which mainly surround our lives.

But, you do not have to be that radical...take a brake, play some Golf...get some sun...then get back here...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Take up golf. It’s far less expensive and you’ll get some sun ...

If you decide to play Golf...I will lend you my Porsche 911 Convertible...so you could kick all those filthy rich and famous driving their expensive Western's Golf Carts...



with one of a kind, (which their money can't buy) -in the whole world- Golf Cart...




Think about it...hahaha


Ufopolitics