Split Positive Boost Charger

[Wistiti]

Guys,
I'm sorry to hear that you are blowing stuff up! I know how that feels. That's why I talked about the boost converter in my FIRST post here. I too have blown up inverters and boost converters on this setup more than once, which is why the boost converter is so important. It maintains the output voltage at 14-15 volts, which is LOW enough to run the inverter, but not high enough to blow it. More importantly, it IS high enough voltage to put the proper charge on battery 3. And when you add the voltage of the boost output to the voltage in battery 3, you have a TOTAL voltage that is higher than the combined voltage of the two primaries, so you BACKCHARGE them down the negative. Each piece this setup we have shown is designed to serve a very specific purpose. If you have a BETTER way of achieving that purpose, be my guest, but until you really, really understand what is going on with ALL the components, it's better to play it safe if you don't want to lose parts.

Dave

Thanks Dave! I cant wait to recive the boost converter to see this backcharge effect..!

It is ok for me for the blowing parts... it is not the first one i have blowned and for sure not the last! I thing it is the kind of things we have to pay for when we are builders.

One question, with this backcharge effect does it change the time you have to rotate the position of the battery?

ciao!

[BroMikey]

Hi folks, Hi blackchisel, thanks for the information, i opened up the inverter and there is one larger cap. and 4 slightly smaller ones, the larger one looks slightly raised on top.
I hear another pop before that also, so maybe one of the smaller caps. is not good either.
Wondering why the inverter is still even working, if those caps did pop, maybe it will not work for long, if i don't replace the capacitors.
Well, not much i can do right now anyway, without a couple more primary batteries, so i will check and replace what needs replacing.
Hi wistiti, no smoke, but i think a couple did pop the tops a bit.
I know i should not have used that much voltage, just had to see i guess.
peace love light

Edit: yup, looks like one input capacitor, 16v 3300uf and the output capacitor, 200v 150uf have slightly popped tops.

Hey Sky

Been thinkin about THAT little problem U got there especially
after I did the same thing with a couple-a-nice inverters I had
for years used normally and thought I better do this.

10Volts to 28volts grid tie inverter. I am sure you want one also.
I don't know if I am going to buy this one but it sure looks
tempting.

Even with a real world practical grid tie unit without the
experimental fluctuations everyone is leaving the standard
one voltage. Many with solar panels have returned from work
only to find that their battery had over charged to 18vdc where
their solar panel maxed out.

Maybe I'll find a 500 watt.

Replace those caps and it will work again.

A good way to get familiar with converters is to convert and
old pc power supply (I don't know if you tried that yet) so
you can go beyond the rated 12.1 volts on up.

All of the caps blow. I replace the caps that had 25 volt? Well
maybe they were 16v caps? I can't remember but I wanted to
go on up to 27volts so I used 35 volt caps and it works just
fine.

I hope you can fix it, then you can still use it he right way.

If anyone buys this 87 percent max efficiency inverter remember
it will only be 87 percent efficient at around 300 watts, that is why
it is good to buy a 1000 watt unit for 400 watt max usages.

This one is $100





http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000W-Watt-Solar-Grid-Tie-Inverter-
DC-18V-30V-36V-To-AC-110V-220V-W-MPPT-/1618907672
45?var=&hash=item25b171118d:m:m-kxlU995kLx46NZFAG-QEg

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi mike, i set aside the dis-assembled vector inverter, until i get the replacement capacitors.
I built a simple inverter, flip flop circuit, 2n3055's with large transformer.
Just using a 19.5 volt laptop power supply at the moment, with inverter splitting positives into 12 volt tractor battery.
Just want to get some experimenting in, while in limbo between getting parts.
It works fine, using 6 watt led bulb off 110 volt transformer winding.
With this power supply, it has a 6.5 volt potential difference, when charge battery is up to around 13 volts.
peace love light

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Since we're discussing equipment at the moment, I'll throw in 2¢. I bought a 24V 10W solar panel from Walmart (of all places) for under $30. I use it constantly to charge garden tractor and motorcycle batteries (13Ah) two at a time. It's not fast, but it's "free" and easy. I connect it directly to the batteries...no controller...and leave them for a couple of days.

To seriously charge these batteries, I use the split-positives system with a 12V inverter between my large 24V system and the six good garden batteries that I have.

Generally, solar panels need a controller between them and the batteries, and there's none better than Bedini's Solar Trackers. They cost a little more, but worth every penny. They condition the batteries as well as give a maximum charge for whatever amount of light you're receiving. They start charging the batteries when the sky gets light, before the sun even comes up over the horizon.

Bedini also sells great battery chargers. The EX-12A12 pulse charges smaller batteries like the ones we're using and is very efficient.

JB told me that we can charge batteries and use them at the same time IF we pulse charge them. Otherwise, it destroys the batteries. So, if we can pulse charge the Primaries and keep a proper load on the charge batteries (so that they don't charge too high and decrease the potential difference) we just might have a perpetual power system. (The larger the charge battery bank, the easier it will be to regulate and also allow larger intermittent loads)

Keep at it,

Bob

[SkyWatcher]

Hi bob, thanks for sharing such good food for thought.
I will be pondering and try to incorporate all these good tips.
Yes, the self runner, is a good goal for sure.
For now, i'm using as said, the flip flop inverter, using the bifilar primary coil in transformer as the oscillator.
The inverter is splitting the positives with a 23 volt nimh pack, into the 12 volt lead acid.
The transformer, is using a full wave bridge off secondary output, then a 6 watt led bulb is in-line with the 12 volt charge battery.
The bulb is full brightness and battery is charging swiftly.
I plan to pick up a couple more 12 volt flooded tractor batteries soon, so i will have a total of 3.
peace love light

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

I was surprised at how well a fairly small load on an inverter would allow it to charge a large battery bank pretty well. I had four 215Ah 6V deep cycle batteries in 12V configuration being charged by my 24V bank through an inverted with a 100W light bulb running on it. And, that 12V bank climbed well to over 15V. Extremely fast charging is not good, but steady reasonably fast charging can be accomplished with this system, night or day.

Bob

[BroMikey]

Hello Sky and Bob

Good information and great progress SKY, the small inverter
sounds like a winner for guys who want to get their foot in the
door working on this stuff. I am getting my batteries ready by
charging them and discharging as JB has shown with the energizer
then in genmode. My batteries were setting a few months.

One other thing I am unclear on but first what I remember JB saying
to address BOB's statement about charging while discharging
now that should really get things going. In ENERGY FROM THE VACUUM"
JB holds a cap up telling us that the cap drink in energy from one
source and re-gauge that energy then put it over another battery
while it runs IF we disconnect the cap completely from the source.

Then the pulse charges sold by JB pulse 8 pulses per second
so as to keep the cap size down AND pulses small enough so
inverter inputs or other devices are not destroyed.

Of course my question is going to be "what do I look for"?? In the
way of converters? No common ground? This lends to the idea
JB pointed out years ago about using conversion devices that
do not connect the back to the front DIRECTLY.

I looked at some of the circuits already and some of the simple
converter have a clear direct path from the input ground to the
output ground. Like SKY it looks like using some form of magnetic
isolation like we find in transformers would do the job.

Even 200khz switching circuits could do this thru a small toroid
as we see on most on these boards. Hell my joule ringer 2 does that
the output wind is not electrically connected to the front end.

Of course you know I am not talking about an inverter but a
CONVERTER for raising potential on the inverter when the
battery current drops in a few minutes. So many connection.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, good to know how well it charges multiple large batteries in parallel with inverter splitting positives bob, thanks for sharing.
Hi mike, yes that is the idea with using this transformer circuit, complete isolation.
Though, my intention is to use a transformer winding ratio, that outputs at least double the 12 volt input.
With that, the charge battery or battery bank, will be given a more appropriate voltage range, as it is now, 120 volts may be hitting the battery in dc pulses off the transformer sec. through the bridge, though the led bulb is probably dropping that down a bit.
So, the idea is to then place another simple home made, 12 volt inverter circuit, splitting the positive off yet another transformer secondary output with bridge and positive of yet another 12 volt charge battery or battery bank.
Then we can repeat this circuit pattern as many times as we like, or as long as it still powers further add-ons, which i don't know if it will, as i have not tried it yet.
I found a video on youtube, called 'Microwave Oven Transformer(MOT) 12V to 120V Inverter', now that would put out some power and those transformers are easily had, of course, i would wind it for at least 24 volt output instead.
So, that's where i am going for the moment, with my experimenting.
peace love light

[Wistiti]

Good to know you are still on it Sky!
I am to and for now i am desulfating some batt to have 5 of them and try what Matt share on the other tread .

Take care.

[BroMikey]

.................................................. ...yet another transformer secondary output with bridge and positive of

......................................yet another 12 volt charge battery or battery bank.


'Microwave Oven Transformer(MOT) 12V to 120V Inverter',

Thanks for the come back Sky

Listen, can you find any Ferrite cores? Just rip one one of an
old TV such as an E-Core to do your switchmode, don't cut
yourself short. You can make a highly efficient converter equally
as good (Maybe Better) than one of those China-Mart jobs.

Make sure you get a reactor core type material to handle
the frequency ranges such as we see commonly available
in many modern washing machines.

Here use this one under 1 MHZ $10 for 2 of them

Course I am thinking CONVERTER however my 3.5" E-Core
has 100 feet (I think it was) of 22 awg and it puts out 120v
the primary is 2 wires 20 turns and I used a basic SG circuit
or joule ringer circuit or oscillator circuit same thing as genmode
or common ground.

That is my lantern and when i shut it off it keeps the 105 led's
lit for several minutes. But i guess you are building an inverter
for 60hz? So iron works. Just toggle a UPS transformer, but you
will lose 30 percent right off the top.


Have fun Sky

[lotec]

So, the idea is to then place another simple home made, 12 volt inverter circuit, splitting the positive off yet another transformer secondary output with bridge and positive of yet another 12 volt charge battery or battery bank.

Alot of people believe that the power from the secondary of a transformer is transformed power of the primary. I am starting to think that power is a transformed version of a copy of the power in the primary and the original is sunk to ground, when used conventionally, but I am also learning that to exploit this opportunity is bit of an art form. but I am pretty sure it can be done.

[boguslaw]

Alot of people believe that the power from the secondary of a transformer is transformed power of the primary. I am starting to think that power is a transformed version of a copy of the power in the primary and the original is sunk to ground, when used conventionally, but I am also learning that to exploit this opportunity is bit of an art form. but I am pretty sure it can be done.

100% true.All the energy input is lost (if not recovered as heat or radio waves) The output is the mirror of input minus looses in material (hysteresis, resistance). The output is not coming from the conversion of input energy into current but from condensing the ether. Yeah I know how it sound ;-) but ether and magnetic field is almost the same

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, great posts, i'm thinking the same thing lotec, there throwing the juice away.
Well, i picked up a new inverter to try, it's a cen-tech 400 watt continuous, from harbor freight.
I brought my meter to make sure it had no continuity between negative dc and negative ac output and it did not.
It will be a little longer till i get a couple more 12 volt batteries.
Will continue making some tests in mean time.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

It's amazing how many times I have to say the same thing over and over before people hear it.

That is what all of the Preachers I know say.

It really is important to rephrase and compress the over all
thought of any process especially one as complicated as
this one tho it may seem easy to you.

Repeats are the best. It is well known that the average person
must hear any message over 20X before it become part of that
person's understand to the point they can repeat it without
reading from notes.

Repeats are the best way to refresh, this repetition must come
from an individual who is in the right frame of mind and due to
possible boredom the speaker go out of his or her way to make it
a fun time to learn.

Thank you I just described your delivery.

Great work SKY

Oh yeah my resins are very hard now and it is important to have
soft resins for the first day for beginners so they have time to
correct mistakes. It is like glass now and I will begin attaching
wires. I can also see the need to get rid of those ridiculous
low speed bearings.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi mike, thanks, i look forward to results of your build.
I tested the new inverter, using 24 volts of nimh batteries as input, splitting the positives, with the 12 volt tractor battery in charge position.
I could only get about 4 minutes of run time, using a 6 watt led bulb as a load off the inverter.
Half of that time, was with the low voltage beep going on the inverter, which kicks in at 10.8 volts, then shuts down at 10.5 volts.
I like this inverter better, the fan only kicks in at very high loads, previous inverter fan was on all the time.
So, with another 12 volt battery in parallel, this would run much longer, or just discharge the charge battery more, so it doesn't rise as quickly.
I definitely see the reason for a large charge battery bank and the boost converter circuit would help also.
peace love light