BEMF current reversal.

[Allen Burgess]

No matter how many videos you find that agree with you does not make your mistaken ideas correct. They only show a lot of other people that are equally confused. We have clearly shown you with scope shots and other videos that the current DOES NOT reverse when the power is removed from the coil. He also makes it clear in the comments that he is a beginner in electronics. So most of what he has learned has probably come from other Youtube posters that also don't really know what they are doing.


JUST BECAUSE IT IS ON YOUTUBE DOES NOT MAKE IT CORRECT

We don't need you to clutter the thread with trite conclusions like this Einstein! Stop pushing your pig authority over me you stinking schweinehund .

[bistander]

Secondary current

"Let us consider another experiment. In Fig. 3 (below) a large wooden spool wound with a large number of turns of fine, insulated wire is connected to a galvanometer. A small spool wound with a few turns of insulated wire is connected in series with a dry cell and a contact key. Let us put the small spool down inside the large spool and press the contact key, closing the circuit. The galvanometer needle will be deflected, showing that a current has been induced in the large coil. What has happened? When we closed the switch and current started flowing in the small coil, that current caused a magnetic field to develop around it, and that developing magnetic field induced an emf and current in the large coil. If the key is kept closed, the induced current in the large coil soon stops. When the circuit is broken, the strength of the magnetic field quickly falls to zero and an induced current flowing in the opposite direction occurs. In both cases the induced current stops flowing when the magnetic field stops changing".

I know a response from me will not alter Allen's views, but perhaps it can enlighten other readers.

The current in the secondary coil will be in the forward direction relative to the polarity of the induced voltage in that secondary coil which sources the current. This is in accordance with Faraday's Law.

bistander

[citfta]

"Let us consider another experiment. In Fig. 3 (below) a large wooden spool wound with a large number of turns of fine, insulated wire is connected to a galvanometer. A small spool wound with a few turns of insulated wire is connected in series with a dry cell and a contact key. Let us put the small spool down inside the large spool and press the contact key, closing the circuit. The galvanometer needle will be deflected, showing that a current has been induced in the large coil. What has happened? When we closed the switch and current started flowing in the small coil, that current caused a magnetic field to develop around it, and that developing magnetic field induced an emf and current in the large coil. If the key is kept closed, the induced current in the large coil soon stops. When the circuit is broken, the strength of the magnetic field quickly falls to zero and an induced current flowing in the opposite direction occurs. In both cases the induced current stops flowing when the magnetic field stops changing".

Let's see some scope shots and meter readings to prove that theory. A video demonstrating this idea would be even better. Making up stuff is good for fairy tales but in the real world most of us want to see some proven facts demonstrated, not fantasy ideas.

[citfta]

Help for those confused

Yes I think we pretty well established with some good scope shots that while the voltage reverses when the power is removed from an inductor the current continues to flow in the same direction until the magnetic field has collapsed. One of our senior members explained that paradox this way. When the applied voltage is removed the inductor which was the load becomes a source instead of a load. Since it is now a source of current the polarity has to be the opposite of the direction of current flow.

Another way to look at it is which way does the current flow inside a DC generator? If the electron flow (conventional way of thinking) flows from negative to positive outside the generator then which way must it flow inside the generator? Obviously it has to flow from positive to negative which of course is because of the generating forces being applied internally. And that is exactly what happens as the magnetic field collapses in an inductor when the source voltage is removed.


Here is a link to a discussion that will help clear up the confusion:

Inductive Kickback

[citfta]

Help for those confused

Yes I think we pretty well established with some good scope shots that while the voltage reverses when the power is removed from an inductor the current continues to flow in the same direction until the magnetic field has collapsed. One of our senior members explained that paradox this way. When the applied voltage is removed the inductor which was the load becomes a source instead of a load. Since it is now a source of current the polarity has to be the opposite of the direction of current flow.

Another way to look at it is which way does the current flow inside a DC generator? If the electron flow (conventional way of thinking) flows from negative to positive outside the generator then which way must it flow inside the generator? Obviously it has to flow from positive to negative which of course is because of the generating forces being applied internally. And that is exactly what happens as the magnetic field collapses in an inductor when the source voltage is removed.


Here is a link to a discussion that will help clear up the confusion:

Inductive Kickback

[Ufopolitics]

Field Collapses?

Accepting that a Magnetic Field just collapses...understanding as "disappear" into nothing, or as well be "destroyed", or go nowhere... simply "collapsing" is like accepting that Energy could also be destroyed or collapsed as well into nothing...and we all know this never takes place.

The fact is that A magnetic field took a specific shape under the coil's electrical flow influence, and after flow is cut off, then field returns to its previous Natural State. it actually never "collapses".

A Scope shot can show voltage reversing, but Scope won't show a "current reversal or non reversal" at all.

Actually what we are seeing when we cut the electric flow of a coil is the magnetic field reversal process to its previous natural state.

The Only True Electrical Flow takes place from negative to positive...meaning Electron flow...just because the positive which are the protons of the atom...are bound (permanently attached) to the atom's nuclei...so, positive goes absolutely nowhere, only electrons can literally "fly" or jump from atom to atom orbital levels...

Positive to Negative flow does not exist anywhere, but only in the human imagination and in the theories and "conventions" we have created all along.

Whenever you see a hole from a Golf Course move away through the green grass...avoiding the coming ball... then we can tell that positive to negative flow exists.

Please, let me know whenever such phenomena takes place...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Analogy

The fact is that A magnetic field took a specific shape under the coil's electrical flow influence, and after flow is cut off, then field returns to its previous Natural State. it actually never "collapses".
....
Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

There's a pile of bricks. A crew of masons take those bricks and errect, construct, build or make a structure out of them. Say a church. An earthquake happens and reduces, destroys, eliminates or collapses the church. Now there is no church just a pile of bricks.

See the analogy? Pile of bricks is natural state. Church represents the field. Build and collapse are good terms to use in either case. A kid says hey dad, the church disappeared. Dad says, no son, it just returned to its natural state.

From a distance you could see the church but not the pile of bricks. Similarly we can sense the magnetic field but after the collapse we are unable to see the natural state. But it is probably there somewhere. Maybe. Your buddy Ken says fields don't exist anyway. All we do is stick words and numbers on things so we can talk about them. I don't see anything wrong with "collapsing" field.

Regards,

bi

[Allen Burgess]

Accepting that a Magnetic Field just collapses...understanding as "disappear" into nothing, or as well be "destroyed", or go nowhere... simply "collapsing" is like accepting that Energy could also be destroyed or collapsed as well into nothing...and we all know this never takes place.

The fact is that A magnetic field took a specific shape under the coil's electrical flow influence, and after flow is cut off, then field returns to its previous Natural State. it actually never "collapses".

A Scope shot can show voltage reversing, but Scope won't show a "current reversal or non reversal" at all.

Actually what we are seeing when we cut the electric flow of a coil is the magnetic field reversal process to its previous natural state.

The Only True Electrical Flow takes place from negative to positive...meaning Electron flow...just because the positive which are the protons of the atom...are bound (permanently attached) to the atom's nuclei...so, positive goes absolutely nowhere, only electrons can literally "fly" or jump from atom to atom orbital levels...

Positive to Negative flow does not exist anywhere, but only in the human imagination and in the theories and "conventions" we have created all along.

Whenever you see a hole from a Golf Course move away through the green grass...avoiding the coming ball... then we can tell that positive to negative flow exists.

Please, let me know whenever such phenomena takes place...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

Franklin theory:

"To better understand this, return to a basic electrochemistry text concerning batteries, or simply turn to page 538 of my book (The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman) where I quote from Mr. Pat Spellman, Chief Chemist of Ray-O-Vac Corporation, who specifically states, "This battery system [used in conjunction with the Newman Motor/Generator] produces direct current which flows from the NEGATIVE of the battery to the positive."

Basic electrochemistry textbooks have long taught this fact. Ben Franklin guessed incorrectly when he stated that "current flowed from the positive to the negative side of the battery." Accordingly, all basic electric current meters were incorrectly designed and are, to this day, showing current flowing from the Positive to Negative side of the battery. In reality, THE FACTS PROVE that electric current flows from the NEGATIVE to POSITIVE side of the battery! Don't let anyone lie to you and tell you otherwise".

[aljhoa]

There's a pile of bricks. A crew of masons take those bricks and errect, construct, build or make a structure out of them. Say a church. An earthquake happens and reduces, destroys, eliminates or collapses the church. Now there is no church just a pile of bricks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH9vAIdMqng&t=0s


Al

[citfta]

Franklin theory:

"To better understand this, return to a basic electrochemistry text concerning batteries, or simply turn to page 538 of my book (The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman) where I quote from Mr. Pat Spellman, Chief Chemist of Ray-O-Vac Corporation, who specifically states, "This battery system [used in conjunction with the Newman Motor/Generator] produces direct current which flows from the NEGATIVE of the battery to the positive."

Basic electrochemistry textbooks have long taught this fact. Ben Franklin guessed incorrectly when he stated that "current flowed from the positive to the negative side of the battery." Accordingly, all basic electric current meters were incorrectly designed and are, to this day, showing current flowing from the Positive to Negative side of the battery. In reality, THE FACTS PROVE that electric current flows from the NEGATIVE to POSITIVE side of the battery! Don't let anyone lie to you and tell you
otherwise".

Wow Allen, your sure know how to make outrageous statements. I have worked in electronics for over 50 years and I have never seen a meter that shows which way the current flows. I would like to see one of those. It would make experimenting so much easier.

Now if you are saying the current flows from the negative to the positive post outside the battery that is what I was saying. But inside the battery the current has to flow from the positive to the negative under the influence of the chemical reaction.

And it is the same way inside a generator coil. Under the influence of the generating forces the current has to flow from the positive connection to the negative connection or else it could not flow from the negative connection to the positive connection outsidethe generator.

[ltseung888]

I must be one of the lucky researchers to own oscilloscopes. The waveforms can show voltage and current directions.

See overunity.com. Search ufo propu. Study reply 1...

[citfta]

Allen specifically said meters. I have a very nice DSO. It will show a positive or negative current but only my training has taught me how to interpret that as a current direction. And Allen doesn't seem to believe the dozen or so scope shots he has been shown that clearly show NO reversal of current when the power is removed from an inductor.

[ltseung888]

Allen specifically said meters. I have a very nice DSO. It will show a positive or negative current but only my training has taught me how to interpret that as a current direction. And Allen doesn't seem to believe the dozen or so scope shots he has been shown that clearly show NO reversal of current when the power is removed from an inductor.

I am glad that you have a nice DSO. You must have taken scope shots similar to reply 70 and 71 in this thread. You must have seen Positive Current and Negative Voltage or Negative Current and Positive Voltage situations. These situations show Negative Power and Energy.

These Negative Energy situations are of particular interest in the investigation of lead-out energy. A 5V DC supply can give rise to a -580V spike in a pulsing situation...

[Ufopolitics]

Analogies...

Hi Ufo,

There's a pile of bricks. A crew of masons take those bricks and errect, construct, build or make a structure out of them. Say a church. An

earthquake happens and reduces, destroys, eliminates or collapses the church. Now there is no church just a pile of bricks.

See the analogy? Pile of bricks is natural state. Church represents the field. Build and collapse are good terms to use in either case. A kid says

hey dad, the church disappeared. Dad says, no son, it just returned to its natural state.

From a distance you could see the church but not the pile of bricks. Similarly we can sense the magnetic field but after the collapse we are unable

to see the natural state. But it is probably there somewhere. Maybe. Your buddy Ken says fields don't exist anyway. All we do is stick words and

numbers on things so we can talk about them. I don't see anything wrong with "collapsing" field.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

I expected a better analogy than a Church built of bricks and a hurricane that made it collapse, too materialistic ...since a magnetic field is not a tangible (material) object... plus, its propagation characteristics through space can make it go through almost any material (mass) on this planet...and at speeds above light.

Random Magnetic Fields are everywhere around us...you just start drilling a piece of iron...and by the rotation of the drill bit...you get those iron filings magnetized and sticking to the bit as to the metal...no electricity flow required. When we rotate whatever...we are "Organizing" in a rotational sense that Space around the spinning object...meaning, we are generating a polarized field there...just by rotation.

Same thing applies when we energize any coil...the electrons flow following the copper conductor spirals (coil rings), generates a rotary motion within that near space occupied by coil shape...and if we have a ferromagnetic core within, then that core inner particles will also be aligned according to the spin from the electron flow influence...then the generated field would be much stronger than just of air core...since it would be born from the very center of that core.

When we cut the electrical flow off that coil, it does not just happens that all electrons that were traveling and spiraling the coil windings before the cut off, will suddenly stop doing so in a radical way...nope...inertial forces apply to electrons as well, in this case a reversal of the flow will take place, as a counter reaction, acting like a vacuum and reversing the whole process...However, who dictates this reverse flow is precisely the Reversing Magnetic Field returning back to where it was.

About a better analogy to this would be an Electric Generator...of any kind, AC or DC...same thing does for this example...

When we stop the prime mover...and Power turns down...does this means that the Energy Collapsed and went nowhere?

According to Energy Conservation...if we stop the Mechanical Rotation from the Prime Mover....then Energy could not keep being

transformed from mechanical to electrical...right?

Apply that to any coil...we set the mechanical motion from electrons spiraling around coil...magnetic field is generated...then we stop that

mechanical rotation (could we say prime mover?)...then Magnetic Field (exactly the same as Energy from that Generator) could no longer be transformed.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Dave45]

The magnetic field does collapse if it just rebounded as suggested then the coil would remain magnetic as in a permanent magnet.
The field collapses and the eddy currents collapse into the coil windings creating an inductive kickback, bemf or whatever you choose to call it.

So how can we test to see which way current travels,
We know electrons move from neg to pos but is that current
If current moves from pos to neg then current is a product of electron flow, it is a reaction of electron movement through a conductor