Fraud: Laws of Thermodynamics

[bistander]

Tax

So, in order to be able to get some positive energy out...we need to exceed the "Action Power" on our end...just like you have stated before: We need 12kW Motor to Spin a loaded 11kW Generator. If your calculation is right, we need an excess of 1000 Watts (1kW) spent from our end.

Talking in Money Investments...We need to "invest" $12,000 in order to "make" $11,000...what a "deal" Uh?

Hi Ufo,

Not an investment but a tax. You want to "buy" 11kW and mother nature demands a 1000 Watt tax on your "purchase". A 9% tax on the electric generator looks like a real bargin compared to the 330% tax you pay on a gas engine. There, for the 11 kW you want you must pay a tax of 26,000 Watts.

It'd be great if you find a tax free deal, or better yet, a no cost handout. But in the meantime, electric machines are the best choice you have, especially if you're willing to make the investment to take advantage of handouts like wind, hydro or geothermal steam.

Regards,

bi

[Matthew Jones]

This is an interesting thread. Delusional for the most part but interesting because of the arguments made. No real rational discussion at all.

@ SidL I believe you have misinterpreted at some level the Laws of thermodynamics (LTD) and Newtons Laws of motion(NLOM). And maybe even the Laws of conservation of energy (LCE)

The laws of thermodynamics are not a fraud and are definitely not proven to be a fraud by SidL and his "Axle" scenario. As Bistander said, you cannot use a conventional generator in this fashion and hope for anything short of failure. There will be no NET gain. You will not break either LTD or NLOM and prove either one wrong.

Other equally brilliant people have posted links to legend and lore that at this time are not widely reproducible. Making a claim is not the same as having... Imagining is not the same as doing.

The truth is when using a generator of any kind the highest power density comes from fighting the Lenz effect. This of course always obtains a loss between the prime mover input and the generator output.

Any other generating mechanism that would otherwise evade the Lenz effect will lower the total power density in the system. And NO we cannot factor in system that are hypothesized or are only available in your imagination.

Like wise Electric motors are not premised under the same set of rules. Current can be reused and does not need to move to ground for a motor to use the currents magnetic field to rotate. Like wise this follows Newtons third law perfectly.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

In case of electricity we can collect the the energy used to cause the action and collect the energy accumulated in the reaction. This does not even violate the laws of conservation of energy. A motor that reclaims the electricity and use the BYPRODUCT magnetic field to do work is only changing the state and generating energy in some form. And the original electricity used does not need to be returned to the Source Environment, or otherwise grounded. Even if in motors most efficient state, in which it could self run with excess energy it still does not violate any of the LTD's as eventually it will fall apart or stop conducting. Perpetual motion from a material science point of view is not possible. Everything we know of breaks down.

So lets just say for instance with the right motor under the hood of the car and a conventional generator on the axle or wherever, would actually work and that was all it took to keep the car running for the LIFE of the car, you still have not proven any of the 3 above sets of laws wrong. Not one of them has been broken especially not LTD.

The biggest failure is the irrational discussion of people who do not understand what they are talking about and how to mediate discussion from both sides of the line. As we see in this thread.

Any attempts to say we have to call these laws inaccurate or false, so we can have a system that is at an infinite level of efficiency is not only stupid but shows how unwilling you are to think within the limitation of nature. It shows you have no imagination and worse you are poorly educated and probably stupid. But I am not pointing fingers I am just trying to give you something to think about.

Matt

[Ufopolitics]

Brilliant Redundancy...LTD and LCE.

The LawS of Thermodynamics [LTD](in plural, meaning All laws) already include the Law of Conservation of Energy [LCE] in the first law.

The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed. The first law is often formulated by stating that the change in the internal energy of a closed system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work done by the system on its surroundings. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the first kind are impossible.

All this Laws work for Closed Systems only.

Any device that depends upon a Magnetic Field to perform work or to generate energy is not a closed system.

Magnetic Fields are Open Systems that are constantly exchanging Dynamic Spatial Forces around its carrier embodiment's surroundings, whether a permanent magnet or an electromagnet.

A Closed System related to Thermodynamics:

In a closed system, no mass may be transferred in or out of the system boundaries. The system always contains the same amount of matter, but heat and work can be exchanged across the boundary of the system. Whether a system can exchange heat, work, or both is dependent on the property of its boundary.

The walls of a closed system allow transfer of energy as heat and as work, but not of matter, between it and its surroundings. The walls of an open system allow transfer both of matter and of energy

Magnetism Properties to "Transfer or Exchange Matter"

A Neodymium N52 Magnet, or any magnet can attract ferromagnetic mass at a spatial distance without any specific determined "wall" nor boundaries. Therefore Mass exchange takes place as it increases the Mass volume of the Magnetic Field Carrier and also of the Spatial Field.

An Electromagnet can attract also ferromagnetic mass...and as soon as power is disconnected all attracted mass becomes loose again.

The History...Thermodynamic Laws Conceived from Vapor and Steam...

Circa 1797, Count Rumford (born Benjamin Thompson) showed that endless mechanical action can generate indefinitely large amounts of heat from a fixed amount of working substance thus challenging the caloric theory of heat, which held that there would be a finite amount of caloric heat/energy in a fixed amount of working substance. The first established thermodynamic principle, which eventually became the second law of thermodynamics, was formulated by Sadi Carnot in 1824.

In 1824 Sadi Carnot described a thermodynamic system as the working substance (such as the volume of steam) of any heat engine under study. The very existence of such thermodynamic systems may be considered a fundamental postulate of equilibrium thermodynamics.

Basically, the second law (1824) apply mainly to Thermo(heat) Dynamics (transfer, exchange, movement) when the Steam Engine was the primarily means of transportation...Faraday discovered EMF Induction in 1831...

A thermodynamic system is the material and radiative content of a macroscopic volume in space, that can be adequately described by thermodynamic state variables such as temperature, entropy, internal energy and pressure. Usually, by default, a thermodynamic system is taken to be in its own internal state of thermodynamic equilibrium, as opposed to a non-equilibrium state. The thermodynamic system is always enclosed by walls that separate it from its surroundings; these constrain the system....

In equilibrium thermodynamics the state variables do not include fluxes because in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium all fluxes have zero values by postulation.

Thermodynamic equilibrium is characterized by absence of flow of matter or energy.

An Electric Generator is constantly transferring Energy(or say transforming?...same thing), the fact it is expelling energy out of its environment or surroundings.

So, now, the "Non Equilibrium Thermodynamics" was postulated as a "new branch" from the Original Thermodynamic Laws, re-arranged for Modern Times, which allows a lot of "flexibility" in exchanges of matter and energy which were part of the limitations on the original Laws...

I guess we could now include the Electric Generator in those "new branches"...

No matter what, in any part of these Original Laws...We will find written the word Magnetism nor Magnetic Fields.


Ufopolitics

[Matthew Jones]

Hi all, I published an ebook sometime back:

Thermodynamic Fraud And The Dis-Conception Of Perpetual Motion. Class 101: The Theory at amazon

On the laws of thermodynamics, laws one and two.

I also placed within it, some ideas to obvious "free energy" devices.

I will be a writing a book next on electric vehicles, because I cannot understand why they are not being built to generate electricity as they move.

Wondering if you agree with my viewpoint on thermodynamics, which to me, is a con job.

I hope to discuss this further.

Thanks.

If you think that that is my basis of dispelling the fraud that the thermodynamic laws represent, then you are sorely mistaken.

Well that is definitely what your first post eludes too. I did not read your book and probably won't, but the cover kinda imposes that suggestion on the whole subject matter. As well as most of your arguments on the first page of this thread kinda point out your lack experience in such matters.
I don't feel a need apologize as I have not said anything that doesn't appear to be the truth.
If your goal is to demolish scientific reality then you should start with your credentials and pose a valid educated argument with subject matter that is based in reality.

I'm sure the Spaceball will have some witty commentary to follow up with, to encourage you.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

I am not impressed, I'm sorry. There are over 7 billion people in the world, and if you won't read, it makes no difference. Just let it go and have a lovely day.

Ya well just have your facts straight before you run out and look like a fool trying to jump a canyon. It people like you and the spaceman who discredit the thinking of this community. No education, no credentials, BIG CLAIMS... And you have a lovely day too.

[bistander]

Karma will catch up with you

I am not impressed, I'm sorry. There are over 7 billion people in the world, and if you won't read, it makes no difference. Just let it go and have a lovely day.

What a great society we have. A guy can write a book which is BS and sell it. If he didn't know it was BS when he wrote it, he knows now. How such a guy that takes money from unsuspecting customers for a BS book can sleep at night is beyond me.

SidL.... If you have any integrity you will pull it and stop sales immediately. Otherwise you're just another con-man crook.

[boguslaw]

Hi boguslaw,

If true, why don't you do it? Then loop it? That'd be great.

Go for it.

bi

Sorry, I can't do that. Not because I'm not able but I have no resources nor time nor money to build one. But many has like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1jofPLteCY

I consider it only a proof of concept, most of such devices are useless due to low power output available for load compared to the cost of combined moto-generator.

[Ernst]

North-South, another ENLIGHTENING thread.



Ernst.

[Ufopolitics]

If any of you would like a free copy, please me a PM and and I will send you a link to download a free copy, before you believe the rants of the self-assured who will not tolerate entry into the their ranks, by those who are supposedly "uneducated."

The purpose of this thread is "The laws of thermodynamics." If I did disservice to myself in bringing up electric cars without letting the theory first settle in, then consider this my apology. The Laws of thermodynamics constitutes one of the greatest feats in human mental engineering--a conjob--only academics can possibly accepts, when Nature screams to contrary. I threw them out the window in the book.

If anyone would like to debate them, no forum is better than this.

Thanks.

SidL,

Don't pay absolutely no attention to all this ridiculous clowns

Don't give any of them, absolutely nothing for free!!

Like I wrote before, you are on the very right track, and yes, it does not only extend and relates to automobiles, but to sea craft, and spacecraft...plus many other stuff we only see in Sci-Fi Movies...or dream about it.

Keep going on with your work, this ridiculous laws constitutes the very foundation where all the actual Dogmatic Established Academia theories are based on. So, taking them down, will definitively start the main collapse of their huge structure based on lies, fraud, scams and hoaxes.

Too many great inventors had been murdered trying to prove them wrong...just for oil cartels backing them up to make their farting machines prevail as the ones and only who could make everything work.

What a ridiculous and pathetic future!!

And We are not a lot, SidL...but we do can make a big difference, believe me!


Regards and Light to you!


Ufopolitics

[dR-Green]

If any of you would like a free copy, please me a PM and and I will send you a link to download a free copy, before you believe the rants of the self-assured who will not tolerate entry into the their ranks, by those who are supposedly "uneducated."

The purpose of this thread is "The laws of thermodynamics." If I did disservice to myself in bringing up electric cars without letting the theory first settle in, then consider this my apology. The Laws of thermodynamics constitutes one of the greatest feats in human mental engineering--a conjob--only academics can possibly accepts, when Nature screams to contrary. I threw them out the window in the book.

If anyone would like to debate them, no forum is better than this.

Thanks.

I think the biggest problem is the fact that you have refused to grasp the idea that a loaded generator DOES NOT spin freely. It OPPOSES motion. Therefore the generating axle will ACT AGAINST the drive axle, thus you will need to input more energy to make the car move. The net result is a LOSS of energy.

It's like putting a parachute on the back of the car. It's not going to make you move faster or utilise wind power like a sail on a ship, because it's pulling the car in the OPPOSITE direction to the motion of the car.

I think you have upset people mainly based on the fact that you have claimed what thermodynamics is NOT, while being unable to demonstrate that you understand the conventional theories. If you don't fully understand the conventional theory, then how can you claim to know what it's NOT?

Learn the alphabet - now you know what letters are not in it.

Read the dictionary - now you know what words don't exist.

If you come claiming what words do or don't exist without first having read the dictionary, then expect retaliation - you're not going to be able to demonstrate that you know what you're doing.

[Ufopolitics]

... a loaded generator DOES NOT spin freely. It OPPOSES motion. Therefore the generating axle will ACT AGAINST the drive axle, thus you will need to input more energy to make the car move. The net result is a LOSS of energy.

Wait, please,allow me to just add a few words to your above post "in order that it makes sense" so we all could understand what you are really trying to convey"...well, just part of it, Bold out words are mine:

...The EXISTING loaded generator DESIGN that we all have so far, DOES NOT spin freely. As It is designed in such fashion that OPPOSES motion. Therefore , anything that uses it, or as an example, the generating axle will ACT AGAINST the drive axle, thus you will need to input more energy (which means you will need to keep buying Gas or Diesel for a lifetime) in order to make the car move. The net result is a LOSS of energy...and a HUGE GAIN for all the Oil Cartels...

Now it DOES make sense!!

Dr Green, you have forgotten all those words!!


Have a nice day!


<<Machine reactivated after such "incomplete post">>


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Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

SidL...please, ask dR-Green...

Hey SidL,

Why don't you please ask dR-Green a very simple question...

Why such huge Multi - Million USD Corporations, like GM, FORD, MOPAR...were not able to produce such an exotic, such a nice and refined piece of art...A Full Electric Vehicle like TESLA MOTORS have come up with...But, like about Half a Century ago?

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

It is not about a "Protected Technology Case"...So, Why?

Can not come up and tell Us all that it is about a "new technology" which is patented and therefore restricted...since We all know that the basic Motor that powers Tesla cars is the ancient AC Induction Motor technology... Invented, Developed and Patented by DR Nikola Tesla back in the 1800's...and that by twenty years after he wrote it, that Patent has been legally free to reproduce and market it wherever?

Then again...Why?

Can not say they did not have the money to build it?...when a very new, starting from scratch company has done it from zero in the very front of their noses?.

I knew there has been an "attempt" when Saturn released the EV1...but then what happened?

Why did such huge Corporation like GM decided to press as junk all the existing and running vehicles?

Ask him if He saw "Who killed the Electric Car"??

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8[/VIDEO]

What happen, they don't have the "Brains" to make it real...or is it just another DECEPTION CASE UNCOVERED?

I guess by "pressure" GM Chevy Volt which is just another "Hybrid" has been released, however, it don't even compare to the first Full EV Tesla built based on a Lotus Elise body over ten years ago..."The Roadster"

[IMG][/IMG]


Nice car that Tesla X Model indeed!!


Regards SidL


Ufopolitics

[dR-Green]

Wait, please,allow me to just add a few words to your above post "in order that it makes sense" so we all could understand what you are really trying to convey"...well, just part of it, Bold out words are mine:



Now it DOES make sense!!

Dr Green, you have forgotten all those words!!


Have a nice day!


<<Machine reactivated after such "incomplete post">>


<<end-stop>>


Ufopolitics

Oh well, I didn't read it.

You have shifted the focus once again.

That point has been explained plenty of times, but so far it hasn't sunk in, and the same original (impossible) idea keeps getting proposed. You don't have a crystal ball so I will tell you that I deleted posts that were posted before you joined the discussion.

What is it exactly that you are trying to tell me through repeating it? You should repeat it to your friend SidL because he doesn't seem to grasp it.

SidL was upset that people didn't accept his book with open arms. So I have given him some advice as to how he can satisfy customer demand and expectation.

[Ufopolitics]

Oh well, I didn't read it.

Oh well, then you just missed an excellent post...

You have shifted the focus once again.

Nope I did not...I have maintained exactly "on focus", the Electric Car, Electric Generators and Lenz Law...The Laws of Thermodynamics, including the ancient Conservation of Energy law, etc,etc...the same exact and so old and sad story.

That point has been explained plenty of times, but so far it hasn't sunk in, and the same original (impossible) idea keeps getting proposed.

Well it seems there are some stubborn's Minds.. around here...thinking that a better Planet could be possible.

Is that a crime, punishable under Planet Earth laws?

You don't have a crystal ball so I will tell you that I deleted posts that were posted before you joined the discussion.

OMG!, You did??!!...but let me tell you that I DO HAVE not one but a few Crystal Balls...they do such nice rays of plasma sparks...and I love them!!

What is it exactly that you are trying to tell me through repeating it?

That You are wrong...simple.

You should repeat it to your friend SidL because he doesn't seem to grasp it.

Well, SidL is not wrong...so why should I tell him?

SidL was upset that people didn't accept his book with open arms. So I have given him some advice as to how he can satisfy customer demand and expectation.

Now You did make me Laugh Out Loud...

You have given SidL some advice as to how he can satisfy customer demand and expectation??!!...

That was really really funny!!

Great sense of humor!!...are you English by the way?

Now you wrote:

"People didn't accept his book with open arms"

People?...which people?...What People?...the Establishment Police People?, represented by Cifta and Bistander?...or the Two Coil Motor "Jones" Empty Head?

Do You think they represent all the "People" on this Public Forum??

Give me a BRAKE!!


"Respectfully"


Ufopolitics

[dR-Green]

People?...which people?...What People?...the Establishment Police People?, represented by Cifta and Bistander?...or the Two Coil Motor "Jones" Empty Head?

Just ask, and I will send you a free copy. I promise. A total sale of 8 copies minus 60% in royalty deductions and tax IS NOT going to make me wealthy, understood?

Great sense of humor!!...are you English by the way?

No.

You're trying to divert attention again. If someone can't demonstrate that they have a basic grasp of the fundamentals of a subject, then what value does a complete book that they've written on the subject have?

What part of this are you not understanding?