Huge aerial antenna project

[IKNOWNOTHING]

It is my understanding from the general consensous of this board that a very large antenna or pan is needed to get any amount of reasonable electricity to be practical for useage in an aerial setup. I have access to a very large steel roofed building that is shaped like a cross if seen from the sky. It is made of 8 Atco trailers with a hallway in between and a common area in the middle. It is also raised because of the sloping ground. This is part of an old logging camp turned mining camp. The wiring system is all underground and was supplied by a pelton wheel turbine of 60kva normal running and can be set to 160kva.Its a Thompson and Howe installation. The turbine has been out for repair and in the mean time I still need power to run a few things.So my thoughts are to use the roof as the antenna because it has some major square footage for surface area, and I would use the ground wire in the ground as the grounding point. Obviously I will be dealing with high voltage of which I have some experience.I only have basic meters for measuring tools digital and analog. Who has experience in this sort of research or projects and what can you suggest for a circuit to drop the volts to a useable level? I have a fair amount of stuff here at my disposal. I can report back with the results as I work on it.I want to put in a kill switch for total shut off .reason being this area I am in is in the mountains of British Columbia.There are few thunderstorms around and You always know they are coming long before they hit the area.The rocks are heavy in pyrites,magnetite and hematite,shists and granite.There are pyritic ores behind me and in front on the next ridge that are pure pyramidial crystals of about 1/4" in size in shale.Usually there are fires every year from the lightening hits.So I need to shut the system down when the storms are coming which is about 2 weeks total in the year.
I have a power shut off switch already.lots of wiring,a few radio style tuning caps and one big one from a piece of navy equipment.and a lot more parts to play with.So if any one is interested in working with me where by I do the work and you do the suggesting,internet research,suppling info,etc then let me know and we can see what kind of trouble we can get into.
Thanks for any input.
Andre

[artoj]

Starting Point

Hi Andre,

It looks like you have some big possibilities available, I can only suggest trying out the basic collectors circuits, such as the one I have explored.

https://artojh.wordpress.com/2013/03...ion-converter/

Good luck
Regards Arto.

[wrtner]

There are numerous methodologies explored here:
http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter7.pdf

but I think you will need your aerials to be insulated from the ground which might be achievable with quite a lot of work.

[IKNOWNOTHING]

circuits and grounding

On those circuits any micro amp readings?
The ground appears to be one cable running down the side into a stake in the ground.there also is a grounding on every breaker panel inside.The are 15 buildings here all connected with the ground going back uphill to the turbine house.Large thick aluminum wire runs buried to carry the current.All the buildings are on wood logs as this is an old camp it has to be so called temporary so that its easy to return the area to as it was before.Right bow its so hot here the last few days it makes it tough to get anything down.until the evening when its cooler. 34 plus degrees at 75 % humidity. Isnt that Florida weather?
Herman

[IKNOWNOTHING]

also

The chapter 7 of PJKs book Im familiar with thanks.Thats what kind of gave me the idea.Also I can remember as a kid going over to a friends house and putting a string of neon lights all around his metal window frame as a ground and they would all light up.It looked like a Christmas decoration.It was pwer from those high voltage towers nearby.The lived there several years and later most of the family suffered from all kinds of medical problems because of the radiations.
Andre

[thx1138]

It is my understanding from the general consensous of this board that a very large antenna or pan is needed to get any amount of reasonable electricity to be practical for useage in an aerial setup.

That's true but the devil is in the details.

I have access to a very large steel roofed building that is shaped like a cross if seen from the sky. It is made of 8 Atco trailers with a hallway in between and a common area in the middle.

One of the requirements for a system like this is that the elevated plate be completely electrically insulated. The system collects energy from charged particles constantly bombarding the plate. The following is a link to one of Nikola Tesla's patents for collecting radiant energy. It will be well worth your time to read it carefully.
APPARATUS FOR THE UTILIZATION OF RADIANT ENERGY

The insulation serves two purposes. The first is to prevent the charges collected by the plate from neutralizing with charges in the air surrounding the plate by acting as a dielectric and thus separating the charges. Not only does the entire plate need to be insulated with dielectric material but all of the connections and wires connected between the plate and the device driven by the collected charge must be insulated as well. That includes the upper 3 or 4 feet of the ground rod because the charged particles penetrate the top portion of the soil as well.

The second purpose the insulation serves is to prevent any sharp corners or burrs on the elevated plate from being exposed to the air. Those corners or burrs will ionize the air around them and the ionized air is more conductive than normal air so lightning will take the more conductive path to the plate. That's exactly how the point end on a Franklin style lightning rod works - it essentially attracts lightning with the ionized air and then routes it to ground, thus protecting the structure which it is above. Those lightning strikes would destroy your equipment and anything attached to it if the plate is not totally insulated. That would definitely be important in your location as you describe it.

The higher the dielectric constant of the insulating material insulating the plate, the better the charge separation. So the material used to insulate the plate is important.

This is probably a deal killer in your case because you have to remove the roofs, insulate and connect them, and insulate the connections before you could even do any testing. And the roofs can't be connected to the metal on the sides of the trailers or any metal studs if the trailers use metal wall framing.

It is also raised because of the sloping ground.

The height of the elevated plate in Tesla's patent is more about height above sea level than height above ground because the higher the elevation the less air the charged particles have traveled through to reach the plate and so more charged particles will reach the plate rather than colliding with air molecules and/or airborne particulates.

This is part of an old logging camp turned mining camp. The wiring system is all underground and was supplied by a pelton wheel turbine of 60kva normal running and can be set to 160kva.Its a Thompson and Howe installation. The turbine has been out for repair and in the mean time I still need power to run a few things.

I think it would be a waste of time and money to try wiring the roofs. Save the money for turbine repairs or to upgrade the turbine.

Obviously I will be dealing with high voltage of which I have some experience.

That is not the case. The system only collects energy slowly and requires the best capacitors with the lowest leaked to store it as it builds up. That is also covered in the patent. Once collected it can then be used from the capacitors but, obviously, not any faster than it is being collected or you'll just drain the capacitors.

Who has experience in this sort of research or projects...

I have built a small one of these systems to figure out what was going on so the above is from experience, not just theory. I "back-of-an-envelope" calculated that in my location I would need about 20 acres of elevated plate to power a single family home. You might not need as much plate as that since you are in the mountains and at a higher altitude but I don't think it will be economically viable.

If you are still interested I can provide more links for you to study. But first read the patent closely to look for pitfalls.

[IKNOWNOTHING]

options

Thanks for the heads up.I am familiar with the patent but its been awhile since i read it so will reread shortly.I understand what u mean about the burrs and lightning but i was thinking if i have a shut off switch to the ground and drain any caps wouldnt this put the roof back to the same as was charge so as not to attract lightning?Also like i said lightning is so rare around here and u can smell it a mile coming.But seriously i dont want to pump a whole bunch of coin into this as u r right about better money spent else where.What i had planned is to see what I can build and test with stuff I find around here.Take some readings and such and if I can get enough power to run a washmachine during a hot sunny day thats good enough for me.I know a household actually takes more power than most people realize. Im also working on some thing else far more safer and hopefully reliable but that will take more time and money so I need to do something in the mean time.It absolutley sucks when u have to decide if u can afford to wash a load in town or not because u have to take it out of the food budget so what can u go without the next 2 weeks?Im 56 feel like 80 and trying to live on a budget that is an insult to anyone in a western country.Im a prospector and this year has been real bad for me as far as income is concerned.
The buildings are all on wood and wood framed Yes the sides are metal but not directly attached to the roofs as they have wooden joists inbetween.If I put a meter on the roof and a side I get 0 ohms(open)
There are three cables about a foot underground and 2 are shielded the red and black but the ground is exposed open aluminum all inside a plastic pipe and only exposed at underground boxes where u have to lift the concrete or sometimes wooden lid to get access.This camp used to be a town and is 150 years old.The buildings are mostly from 1930 to 1980.To have a working washmachine here would be a real bonus.As is it is I have no fridge,freezer,airconditioner etc.The heat is a wood stove and the cooking is a propane stove.When I get up and out in the morning I can see a bear that has hung around lately and he likes to play with this 45 gallon plastic drum in the field rolling it around.Blackberries are ripe so theres breakfast for him and me.and so life goes on!!!!ever see a hawk chase a Heron?a Heron can out fly a Hawk.All ideas, insights,experience and suggestions always appreciated.Thanks

[IKNOWNOTHING]

roof

I forgot to mention the roof is all connected already by all the sheet metal so nothing need to be done there.As soon as I get my camera setup and a way of loading 3.5 floppys Ill post pix.I have an old Sony mavica still going strong and relaible when its used regularly.yeah I know im dealing with antiques but if it works i keep using it.Anyone want to buy some betas?hey I still have some 8 tracks too!!

[thx1138]

I spent most of my professional career developing software. One thing I learned from that was that the more effort that is expended in analyzing the problem up front before coding starts, the easier it will be finish the project. Some of the projects I worked on took a year or more before the first results were seen so patience was also required.

That said, there is also the problem of “analysis paralysis” where you spend more time on analysis than is required to the detriment of the project. So that needs to be avoided also.

The point is I don’t build anything until I understand to a large degree what I’m trying to accomplish. I don’t need to know all of the details but the more blanks I fill in before commencing that actual work, the better.

To start with you need to understand what energy this system was designed to capture. Look at the first diagram at the top of this document. That’s a graphic representation of what I was saying about altitude above sea level being more important in capturing the charged particles. You don’t need to build one of the devices shown at the link but reading the article is worthwhile.
Cosmic Ray Detector

A backup to that idea is that we know airline pilots that regularly fly at higher altitudes are exposed to higher radiation levels than people on the ground. That’s one of the reasons their flight time is limited.

Tesla said the collector worked both day and night so wasn’t limited by the presence of sunlight. That’s true but the charge rate is not constant. When I was experimenting with my setup I recorded local weather conditions and sunrise and sunset time of the day when I took the readings. After gathering those records every day for a couple of months I didn’t find any correlation between the readings I was getting and the local weather. Once it occurred to me that the collector was responding to cosmic rays I started recording readings of the solar wind density and speed and found an inverse relationship between the solar wind density and the voltages I was reading. A higher solar wind density corresponded to lower voltage readings. It can be thought of as a cloud passing over a photovoltaic solar collector. Here’s an animated link to show the solar wind so you can visualize this:
NOAA Solar Wind Animation

I experienced an incident when taking readings one night that was very interesting in hindsight. Thunderstorms were passing by some miles north of me but I had no rain or lightning nearby. A strong cloud to cloud lightning bolt occurred when I was taking a reading and the reading immediately jumped to four times what it was and slowly returned to the previous reading. It didn’t occur to me at the time because I wasn’t sure what I had seen. Some research I did once I started looking for sources of charged particles found that sufficiently strong lightning will create x-rays and gamma rays. Bingo, charged particles.

Another interesting experience I had involved the seasons. I started this project in the winter and took my readings for several months. I then got tied up with other things and didn’t get back to it until summer. When I got it all setup again I was getting next to nothing in my readings. I went over the connections several times and took it apart once and rebuilt it all. No change. I was stumped for quite a while until I figured out that the change in seasons caused the position of the sun’s travel in relation to the horizon to change. I had built my installation on the north side of my house and, being in the northern hemisphere, during the winter the sun was lower on the horizon and the house was between the sun and the ground rods but in the summer the sun was directly overhead where the ground rods were installed. What I thought was that the rays were going directly into the soil since the house was no longer between the rays and ground rods. When I examined my night time readings I found that they were a little higher. So I pulled the ground rods, insulated the top 4 feet with heat shrink tubing and reinstalled them. My daytime readings went back up again regardless of the fact that I now had less ground rod exposed to the soil. Research revealed that particularly strong rays can penetrate the topsoil a couple of feet and even several inches into solid rock. The point of this is that the location of the ground rods and insulating the top part of them makes a major difference. That’s also why I said in the earlier post that everything above ground must be insulated.

Enough of the background for now.

You said you didn’t want to spend a lot of money to try this project so the first thing to do is determine how much it is going to cost to insulate the roof with a material of high dielectric constant. The material should be readily available to keep down shipping costs, easy to work so it doesn’t require special tools, relatively inexpensive, and, since it’s going to be exposed to the elements, be able to withstand your weather to keep the maintenance to a minimum.

The number one consideration for the insulating material, however, is its dielectric constant. A material that meets all the other criteria will be useless if it doesn’t have a high dielectric constant. I tried a few different materials. The last one I tried was UV stabilized high density polystyrene because of its dielectric constant and its ability to withstand UV light would make it last longer. The home insulation foam board will not work because, being a foam, it has air entrained in it, and rather than performing the charge separation function we need, it actually has more surface area to neutralize the collected charge. Here’s a link to explain what we are looking for in terms of dielectric constant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric

Being readily available may be a problem for you.

How easy it is for you to work with will depend on the tools you have.

Most plastics can be acquired in 4’ X 8’ sheets but you’ll need a way to make joints that will keep the air out. The insulation also needs to tightly fit the metal. The transfer of charge from the dielectric to the metal plate (your roof) for collection is totally dependent on how much and how tight the contact area is. That’s why Tesla’s patent says to use a highly polished plate.

The insulation will probably be the most expensive component of this project so first figure out how much you need to totally cover both sides of your roofs and what the optimal sheet size to fit it with minimal joints will be. Then find out what material is most available and figure the cost from there.

If that cost doesn’t terminate the project we can proceed from there.

[wrtner]

The buildings are all on wood and wood framed Yes the sides are metal but not directly attached to the roofs as they have wooden joists inbetween.If I put a meter on the roof and a side I get 0 ohms(open)

Is it a megger meter for testing insulation?

That is what you need. A regular meter is not enough. Wood is inherently damp. You would be better off getting a ceramic insulator between the roof and the support. Also, each section of the roof needs to be connected to neighbouring sections by very low resistance couplings.

[IKNOWNOTHING]

Testing and numbers

Lots to digest here but what I,ll do is do some tests first and get back with the results in a few days.Still digesting the Tesla patent as the wording is from a different generation so it changes meanings in English which really is a poor language for exactness.5 words can mean one thing and 5 things can mean one word and then theres the class difference as well.Thanks
Andre

[marathonman]

Arial System

I know this has been a while since any one has posted but here is a circuit that is off of PJK book. there are twelve circuits. 6 on the upper half flipped horizontally positive side to positive side. negative to negative then the second half is flipped verically to line up with the ground. very compact with no space wasted.
i have gerber file also if wanted.

A modification of this circuit of Jes Ascanius’ by a developer who prefers to remain anonymous, doubles the
output of each module by adding a mirror image of the circuit. chapter 7 page 14 i think.

i could not make the circuit larger due to 500 pin limit on DipTrace i purchased but would be free to whom ever wants it, just let me know.



MM

[thx1138]

Cosmic rays

I saw an article today that backs up my conjecture that the solar wind is to cosmic rays as a cloud is to a photovoltaic collector in paragraph 6 of post #9 above.

CME SWEEPS ASIDE COSMIC RAYS

I also saw an article that reminded me of Moray's claim that when the incoming power was heard through headphones it sounded like the ocean. Scroll down to "Plasmaspheric Hiss" and listen.
NASA Listens in as Electrons Whistle While They Work
or here
https://soundcloud.com/nasa/plasmaspheric-hiss