Figuera Device, Part G Continuum.( Serious Builders Only)

[Ufopolitics]

Battery Testing...Today.

Hello everyone,

I am actually running some tests with Batteries as the Power Supply...Batteries are 12V 33 A/H AGM, Deep-cycle.

[IMG][/IMG]

And here I am just verifying what I wrote previously to Cornboy...

Batteries, once connected to this System...will disburse ALL their FULL Power into it...without absolutely No Regulation on Volts or Amps...but only based on the Inductance Regulation from our Part G...Since We are Operating at such Low Levels of Resistance.

My Part G is still wound with 8 awg, and 20 turns...same way as I had before.

I started with 3 Batteries fully charged to 39.0 V...and they Disbursed 54 Amps...I have a Blade Switch on...and Primaries climbed to 272º F...had to cut off power in less than one minute of running time...Not Good Results.

My next test was with 24 Volts (Two Batteries)...it disbursed -roughly- 30Amps...not good either.

Reduced it just one Battery...and it spent 19 Amps...not good results.

And when I write "not good results" I meant relating to very poor induction at Secondaries...and not just relating to heat and higher amperage.

And the problem bolts down to the way the Dual Signals become (I rather should write "Deform" here) at any of these levels of power...

[IMG][/IMG]


Above is the Signal for 24V (Two Batteries)

[IMG][/IMG]


And above is the Signal for 12V

Note the Rise and Drop off are simultaneously taking place around zero Time.

Collapsing Field Alternatively below Zero Values...NOT GOOD!!

Big difference when I did the Test with 36V 2+ Amp Max out with Lipo Batteries...except they started to burst and dripping liquid...overheated...But Induction was great as Signal was right.

However, even being not such good tests...I enter into a new reasoning (which I will be testing as well) about this whole system.

I will share them below for any comments or suggestions...

Part G Regulates Currents based on Inductance -at the same, exact time toward - Primary(es) N and Primary(es) S Coils.

I would say that INDUCTANCE Calculation from our Part G Coil, MUST BE in completely DIRECT FUNCTION RELATION to our Primaries N and (or) S Coils INDUCTANCE .

I think based on the above we could Establish this Inductance Relations in either Two Ways...

1- Part G Inductance (Lg) should be -at least- the SUM of Our N and S Primaries Inductance (Lg=Ln+Ls)

2- Part G Inductance (Lg) should be -at least- EQUAL to JUST ONE of Our Primaries N and S Inductance (Lg=Ln=Ls)

And just because Part G Inductance Disburses Currents within exactly the SAME TIME to BOTH N and S Coils...I will rather choose number 2 above.

Which resumes that Part G should be NO MORE and NO LESS than the Inductance from one of our Primary Coils Calculation.

This way our System would be able to be tested with different current inputs...

If We choose number 1 option: (Lg=Ls+Ln), then Part G would be operating based on DOUBLE THE INDUCTANCE VALUE to Both Primaries SINGLE INDUCTANCE VALUE within SAME TIME....And I do not see this mode of operation right at all.

I believe if we get here...we will be able to come up with the right Calculations to be adapted to any of our systems, no matter the differences.


Anyways...this is my take on this system....And any opinions welcome.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Soo, i take it UFO, that you are not recommending to test my device, hooked up to my 24V 3000AH solar battery Bank.

How do you calculate inductance of certain masses with certain windings???.

OH oHH, i can hear Bistander chafing at the bit, to answer that, maybe on the other thread hey.

Merry Christmas everyone,

Best and warmest regards, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Soo, i take it UFO, that you are not recommending to test my device, hooked up to my 24V 3000AH solar battery Bank.

Cornboy,

DEFINITIVELY NOT!!!


You, for sure will burn something there...unless you want to have Pop Corn well done...

How do you calculate inductance of certain masses with certain windings???.

Everything is out there Friend...the problem is that you would find a lot of Calculators based on either Air Core, or iron dust, Ferrite, etc,etc...which does NOT Apply to our set up here.

So, must check they have Iron or Steel (different ones) Permeabilities Coefficients included in the Basic Formula:

L=µN^2A/l (where number of turns (N) is squared), u=Material Permeability, A=Cross Sectional Area, l=Length of Coil-Core.

The site below have a Calculator for Multi-layer, Multi-row Coils:

COIL CALCULATOR

Another One:

COIL CALCULATOR 2

Another one

COIL CALCULATOR 3

AND SO...TOROID CALCULATOR:

TOROID INDUCTANCE CALCULATOR

OH oHH, i can hear Bistander chafing at the bit, to answer that, maybe on the other thread hey.

No need for it...We got it...

Merry Christmas everyone,

Best and warmest regards, Cornboy.

Merry Christmas to you too friend!!


Best and Warm Regards too!!


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks UFO, the other thing to consider is that if we have a secondary to feed DC to part G, we only need a flick of battery power till the secondary cuts over.

So i guess we need more to work out the secondary V & A to supply losses.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks UFO, the other thing to consider is that if we have a secondary to feed DC to part G, we only need a flick of battery power till the secondary cuts over.

Yes...BUT, the way our job must be done FIRST is by using a LINEAR PSU, (switching PSU definitively will NOT work, take or leave my advice, up to you), In order to find the Right V & A Supply which generates the right Field to generate the suitable Induction on Secondary(ies)...And so, from here, once we have the V &A...Then we could replace it by the exact suitable Battery which would disburse that right kind of Power Output...

Understand?

So i guess we need more to work out the secondary V & A to supply losses.

Regards Cornboy.

We need to test Secondary Layers V & A (like I wrote on prior) in order to see what is our Wattage Output per Layer, now, remember that as we add Multilayers...Radius or Depth would be increasing...and so, I believe it is better to make -at least- a read out at first and last layers of secondary...depending on Our Secondaries Coil Size, related to number of layers, we may want to add a Mid Layer Reading.

And so, I believe We will need to do all these testings before moving on to other sets of Primary-Secondary-Primary...not to really waste our time.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

@ UFO Yep, understand, where did you get your linear power supply from?

@ Mm you said you had a custom 100v 10a power supply, did you make it?.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

My New-Old Linear PSU...

@ UFO Yep, understand, where did you get your linear power supply from?

Hello Cornboy,

I have been "hunting" on EBAY for one of these units for a while...til I found them...Two actually, just to put one together...

[IMG][/IMG]

The above one is pretty banged up...got it for 20.00 USD...and then shipping was $68.00...cause they weight like 60 lbs.

Then I got the second one much better looking (in appearance though):

[IMG][/IMG]

Both are HP Agilent (now obsolete) 6439B and output is 60V and 15 Amps (900W)...and that is more than enough power.

They both are still in transit...Holidays delays.

Once it is refurbished it will cost around 600-700 USD:

REFURBISHED 6274B EBAY

And the one above is an older model... series 62.

And a brand new decent Brand name of these Linear PSU units goes for around 800.00 USD...for example the one shown below is 60V and 8 Amps and costs 825.00 (without any "optional" stuff, meaning no Voltmeter, No Ampmeter, no Overload protection...etc,etc...and so by the time you get all these things it will climb close to 900.00 USD):

ACOPIAN PSU 60PT8

@ Mm you said you had a custom 100v 10a power supply, did you make it?.

Regards Cornboy.

I believe He did make it...Custom made.

This is the "cost" of experimenting friend...actually once we find the correct required power...we don't need it anymore (except for more experimenting...)...just a small battery pack carrying the exact power would do the job as a "start up" fixed Power Source to Generator...once Gen is running it disconnects and could restore power back through a small -built in- charger unit...done deal.

These old linear PSU's units are very rough built though...just like a German Tank built...will last for ever.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Power Supply

UFOP;
quote; 2- Part G Inductance (Lg) should be -at least- EQUAL to JUST ONE of Our Primaries N and S Inductance (Lg=Ln=Ls).

I completely agree. as both inductances are separate from the their magnetic fields, they should be calculated as separate halves of the system even thought the whole coil inductane can be calculated as one unit from low to high or vise verse in part G.

i just wish i could find a formula for inductance that includes wire width as my initial tests show wider wire have a more profound influence of self induction within part G's core.

Quote;
"These old linear PSU's units are very rough built though...just like a German Tank built...will last for ever."

I totally agree, most people i converse with that have these old power supplies say they are damn near indestructable.

Quote;
"@ Mm you said you had a custom 100v 10a power supply, did you make it?."

Yes/No, i am still gathering supplies and parts. have located used toroid for the job that will work just fine though. i plan on making it adjustable from 25, 50 75 and a 100 volts.

the good thing is that once the robust power supplies are made they can be used for so much other things you and i have going on.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

The Four Factors which affect Inductance...

Hello All,

I just found this very useful link related to :

FACTORS AFFECTING INDUCTANCE IN A GIVEN COIL

And basically there are Four(4) Factors affecting Inductance:

1- N, Number of Turns:

[IMG][/IMG]

2- A, Coil Sectional Area:

[IMG][/IMG]

3-l, Coil Length:

[IMG][/IMG]

4- u, Coils Core Material:

[IMG][/IMG]


Then we have the Basic Calculation Parameters below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Where we could see in formula that N, u, A are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO INDUCTANCE...which means as they are greater, Inductance Increases...EXCEPT for LENGTH (l)...which is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL (dividing Parameter), therefore the longer the coil the less the inductance.

Hope this help you all guys in your builds...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Part G Inductance

Which tells me i was right all along as wide wire has larger coil area to interact with the iron core as the magnetic field will travel in the core longer than will round wire requiring round wire to have significantly larger winding count than rectangle wire.
thus my deep core will have significantly longer length per turn as a single core will plus having a higher degree of self induction. my single strip of rectangle wire will have near 4 time the magnetic self inducting influence on the toroid core as your single 8 or 10 awg round wire will.

but remember what they said, i an just a nut and i have no clue what i am talking about.

things that make you go hummmm.

[Ufopolitics]

UFOP;
quote; 2- Part G Inductance (Lg) should be -at least- EQUAL to JUST ONE of Our Primaries N and S Inductance (Lg=Ln=Ls).

I completely agree. as both inductances are separate from the their magnetic fields, they should be calculated as separate halves of the system even thought the whole coil inductane can be calculated as one unit from low to high or vise verse in part G.

I am glad we both agree on above part MM

i just wish i could find a formula for inductance that includes wire width as my initial tests show wider wire have a more profound influence of self induction within part G's core.

MM

I found this Calculator below:

COIL INDUCTANCE CALCULATOR (INCLUDES WIRE DIAMETER IN MILLIMETERS)

Just have to convert from awg to mm...

Note: On left side bar, you could choose for different conductors topography...like rectangular loop (which applies to each one of your Part G Loops, then you just add total number of single loops Inductance L to reach an Ltotal and divide by length (l) which in your Toroid would be Circumference taken to linear distance...then you have your Part G Total Inductance)...or the circular loop which applies to our Primaries).

Edit: I noticed the Rectangular loop includes Number of Turns...which means it will give you Length (l) of coil when including wire thickness (r), However, that Length is assuming each loop is right next to each others...not your case where there is a separation...but no sweat, just have to add all gaps-spaces and divide them by Total L.

See if it works for your calculations...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

I am glad we both agree on above part MM

YES, referring to calculating part G's currant drop i agree completely but when it comes to the inductance being equal i might stray a little as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device so induction can not be equal in my opinion. thus keeping winding count low will keep self inductance low as per my original primary parameters still stand.

tests will prove the final outcome my friend.

and thank you very much for the calc tool. this might prove to be VERY VALUABLE TO ME. as NO other tool i have found has this aspect that is so very importantly related.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

YES, referring to calculating part G's currant drop i agree completely but when it comes to the inductance being equal i might stray a little as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device so induction can not be equal in my opinion. thus keeping winding count low will keep self inductance low as per my original primary parameters still stand.

Oh...no agreement then?...

MM,

Current feeding part G generates Inductance, Inductance generates Magnetic Field...When Part G disburses to Primaries the opposite conversion takes place (Magnetic Field back to Inductance, Inductance back to Currents), which are fed to Primaries at same timing...one Hi one Lo.

When Cycle reverts the only affecting difference resumes to primaries reversal, but not Part G which keeps operating -during a full cycle- with same Inductance, same Currents feed and same magnetic field within Toroid Geometry. This is the principle of Inductor behaving as a Power Source here.

What am trying to say above is that Currents and Inductance are completely related.

as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device...

YES!, And I did kill Inductance by feeding system with straight batteries which output was MUCH higher in Currents output...did NOT work...so Doug was right on the money there.

tests will prove the final outcome my friend.

Absolutely agree above...Only testing good results will dictate the truth!!

and thank you very much for the calc tool. this might prove to be VERY VALUABLE TO ME. as NO other tool i have found has this aspect that is so very importantly related.


MM

My Pleasure friend


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Inductance

so as long as the low primaries inductance being shoved into part G is at the level of part G's disbursing level minus losses which are replace to the core from the second secondaries as needed then the system will operate as required.

MM

[Shadow119g]

16 Bars Planar Commutator VCC-049

Cornboy 555
Where did you purchase your commutator?

I can get 1000 of them but only want one or two!

Shadow