Figuera Device, Part G Continuum.( Serious Builders Only)

[Ufopolitics]

so as long as the low primaries inductance being shoved into part G is at the level of part G's disbursing level minus losses which are replace to the core from the second secondaries as needed then the system will operate as required.

MM

Exactly MM,

Just because when the low primary (retracting field) Inductance is being shoved back to Part G...Part G is using that exact amount of Inductance collected from low Primary to feed the expanding Field of the High Primary...all taking place exactly at same timing.

Concluding that Part G could easily operate with the Inductance Value from just one Primary...maybe a bit more to have a head room.

An interesting article from the link: AllAboutCircuits: Magnetic Fields and Inductance:

To store more energy in an inductor, the current through it must be increased. This means that its magnetic field must increase in strength, and that change in field strength produces the corresponding voltage according to the principle of electromagnetic self-induction. Conversely, to release energy from an inductor, the current through it must be decreased. This means that the inductor’s magnetic field must decrease in strength, and that change in field strength self-induces a voltage drop of just the opposite polarity.

In Part G without increasing or decreasing currents from our source it does the job to feed both primaries...by reversing currents in every cycle...meaning when it is feeding high its currents are increasing toward that primary...while at other end, same timing, current is decreasing to low primary...


Which means Two Current Functions take place, same time with exactly the same amount of current from source.


Excellent right?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Inductance

Quote;
"Concluding that Part G could easily operate with the Inductance Value from just one Primary...maybe a bit more to have a head room."

this i disagree with but the rest is good, as all the rest of the primaries would put it into overload and cease function so the total amount of the low primaries induction to part G has to be added up to reach part G no matter how many primaries you use or rather have connected to it. meaning series and or paralleled.

Quote;
"Which means Two Current Functions take place, same time with exactly the same amount of current from source."

Sounds good.

Shadow;
Toledo comm dot com is working with me on one Industrial Commutator. he is sending me a pic and printout to see if specs are what i needed but after the holidays.
www.toledocomm.com
someone had already posted that link but i forgot who.


MM

[citfta]

Hello All,

I just found this very useful link related to :

FACTORS AFFECTING INDUCTANCE IN A GIVEN COIL

And basically there are Four(4) Factors affecting Inductance:

1- N, Number of Turns:

[IMG][/IMG]

2- A, Coil Sectional Area:

[IMG][/IMG]

3-l, Coil Length:

[IMG][/IMG]

4- u, Coils Core Material:

[IMG][/IMG]


Then we have the Basic Calculation Parameters below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Where we could see in formula that N, u, A are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO INDUCTANCE...which means as they are greater, Inductance Increases...EXCEPT for LENGTH (l)...which is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL (dividing Parameter), therefore the longer the coil the less the inductance.

Hope this help you all guys in your builds...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO and Merry Christmas.

The part of your post I have highlighted in red could be misleading to those not real familiar with inductance. A better way to say that would be that for a coil with all other things being the same the longer coil will have lower inductance. This means if one coil has 20 turns of a given diameter and core material and another has the same 20 turns spaced out so the coil is twice as long then the inductance would be half.

Or another way to look at it is if one coil has 20 turns and a second coil has 40 turns so it's length is twice the first coil then the second coil will have MORE inductance and not less.

Actually in VHF radio equipment most tuned circuits have air coils of only 4 to 6 turns and they are tuned by squeezing the loops of the coils together or spreading them apart more to change the inductance.

I hope this helps a little in your understanding of inductance.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[marathonman]

Page one

Fly by's not welcomed nor needed. if you want to become a member of this thread you are required to read page 1 of this thread and then is at my discretion and other member recommendation in which i have received none of you what so ever. therefore please refrain from posting again.
all members have abided by this rule and you are no exception.

try Pming him next time.

Have a good Holiday.


MM

[Cornboy 555]

Cornboy 555
Where did you purchase your commutator?

I can get 1000 of them but only want one or two!

Shadow

Hi Shadow, my 16 bar comm is from Eurton electric, it is quite small, and cheap, don't know if it will handle the currents we are dealing with, time will tell.

Regards Cornboy,

[Cornboy 555]

@ Mm, a shot of my brush holder to show you the brush holder slot.

Cheers Cornboy,

[Cornboy 555]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFnzTDzJ9nY[/VIDEO]

Hello all, UFO here is the test you requested, i don't pretend to understand scopes, please let me know if you need anything further.

You can definitely see and feel the opposite feeding which will be necessary to cause induction on secondaries, well done everyone.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Signal differences...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFnzTDzJ9nY[/VIDEO]

Hello all, UFO here is the test you requested, i don't pretend to understand scopes, please let me know if you need anything further.

You can definitely see and feel the opposite feeding which will be necessary to cause induction on secondaries, well done everyone.

Regards Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,


Thanks for making test video!..

Now related to Both signals I am seeing a clear difference between both.

Channel 1 (Yellow) looks great!!...Its short peak is almost flat...like is supposed to, since you have two comm elements connected together for both outputs terminal (So it is 2X Time on Top)...Plus it is above zero, always positive.

However, Channel 2 (Blue) is not right...it is almost a "saw tooth" signal (no flat top), plus it is almost all below zero (like 80% negative) And the rise is steeper than fall (not symmetrically up-down, but more inclined to left side, rise)

I see the timing alignment right though...related to one low while other high and so on, within same vertical line (time) alignment.

I noticed your Channel 2 is at 500 mV while Channel 1 is at 5.0 V...that is NOT good, both Channels need to be set at same, exact Voltage levels, plus same timing value for both.

Make sure both Probes are equally set in Attenuation Mode (1X, 5X, 10X etc..On Equipment Settings as also on Probe itself small switch), it seems like you have Ch1 at 1X and Ch 2 at 10X.

Also make sure Both Bulbs are exactly the same kind, same spec's.

Please redo that test video making sure Both Channels are equally set...Probes have same Attenuation Scale...and bulbs are identical.

Also, when accelerating...do it more slow...not increasing that fast please....when it is too fast...it is very hard to see any differences.


You are getting there!!


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Induction

Very nice Cornboy and Thank You. as you could see it took a few seconds for part G to get magnetically stable. then your waveform stabilized even when you brought it down to low RPM's. all you have to do is work on extending your low part of the waveform and bring second channel up above to be always positive

Good idea on the brush mount groving it like that. i have no way to do that so i would have to pay for it to be done and money is tight as the company put me on hold until the first of the year.....OUCH !
I imagine the brush, holder and plate must come close to the weight of the removed material thus why it is so smooth.

Very good results my friend CONGRATS ! AGAIN it proves to ney sayers that induction was Figuera's avenue not resistance.
as UFOP has stated from above with a few improvements life will be a blessing. after second look at full screen UFOP is completely right, complete symmetry is a must with the Figuera device contrary to other on this forum that ANY signal will do as reality set in.

You gatta love it.

MM

[Shadow119g]

Urton

Cornboy 555
Thanks for the information!
I went to the website and "FINALLY" remembered
I had bought an eight part commutator from them
for my first attempt at building this device.
Oh well..................there goes the old brain!
HA HA
The parts are on the way.
Thanks again,
Shadow

[Cornboy 555]

Hey all,

@ UFO, you were right, i thought i had checked the probes, but one was on 10X.

Have made a video showing wave forms, and built up speed of switching sssllooowwlly, .

I am at the end of 15 Klm's of tiny copper wire for my internet, no cell service here, it takes about 1.5 hrs to upload a video to youtube, so will chat when i post it.

Regards Cornboy.

[Cornboy 555]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uUa80IfjIg&t=9s[/VIDEO]

Finally uploaded, please everyone feel free to comment, builders that is.

Regards Cornboy.

[marathonman]

Part G

Not good, your bulbs do not even slightly dim at all which is directly related to winding count which is your currant reduction.

Is your winding's one continuous winding or is it split like Netica's slight modification ???

The sad reality is it would seem you need to rewind your part G with like tripple your present winding count. even without testing my part G yet i am very confident that from my test i conducted that rectangle wire interacts much better with the core then regular wire does. only a full test very soon will reveal reality.

also the fact that the whole concept of an inductor is the interactions with the opposing magnetic field with the wire next to it and the core. thus with your wires so far apart you are not getting the induction level required to curtail currant flow.

also the other problem of channel Two. it seems to still be going negative for some reason and saw toothed at that. this really has me puzzled.

[Ufopolitics]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uUa80IfjIg&t=9s[/VIDEO]

Finally uploaded, please everyone feel free to comment, builders that is.

Regards Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

Thanks for making the test again with all parameters corrected.

You still have a difference between both signals.

Channel 1 (Yellow) Signal is almost PERFECT!

But, Channel 2 (Blue) is NOT properly aligned as following a vertical timed line with Channel one. It seems it is getting split right at top, where right side of split (green line) is lower or drops off.

[IMG][/IMG]

Channel 2 should fill that red zone as Channel 1 does.

Make sure your two MAIN output terminals (which go to Part G Output to Primaries or Bulbs, and are supposed to be two jumped elements ) AT COMMUTATOR are PERFECTLY ALIGNED in a STRAIGHT LINE ACROSS from each others (line from center split between the two elements with center split of the other side) ..in order that such Line must cross the center of Commutator. Then AT TOROID the EXACT, SAME number of turns must be between each Tap . As each tap MUST BE EXACTLY SPACED APART with exactly same number of turns between taps throughout the whole wind.

It seems you do not have both outputs aligned properly in a line at Commutator, maybe just one element jumped which makes it off set.

About your Channel 2 going negative... I could only relate that issue to a different setting on Scope on Ch2 versus Ch1. So, check ALL settings for Channel 1 WITHOUT CHANGING THEM...Write them down, then check Channel 2 and compare it to Ch1 Settings. Or it could be that both probes are not the same type...or maybe one of its internal components are bad on Ch2.

As this system design is based on a constant back and forth flow which generates both signals equally and alternating constantly...therefore, that I can think off...it is just impossible one signal would be positive while the second negative within same system.

Good news is that your switching assembly -in general- is not loosing contact even at high speeds.

That is all I could think off as of now...


Regards



Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks Mm and UFO, i will consider what you guys have said and check everything, at the moment i am leaning towards using Flat wire for more core exposure, no big problem, all part of experimenting.

@ Mm, with Doug your mentor's build, what wire did he use around the alternator core G ?.

Regards Cornboy.