"How much energy is there in a permanent magnet"?

[BroMikey]

This thread has been suggested as an alternative place to discuss how
much energy a magnet has whether it be in more than one form.
Forms of electricity or in the form of FLUX.



Alternative views should be explored, not met with rejection before
the evidence is heard. If you can't retain a large bank of data and place
the idea's into a sentence structure, then let the one's who can, do this
job. Not all have the ability to teach nor do they have the time it takes
to properly build a step by step case and point.

We can not continue on the same path of current energy models listed in
our books, that are as old as 150 years. I am sure all respectable counter
views bases on school books will be received and properly debunked in
a few key places.

Many inventors have taught for decades the a magnet is a limitless
supply of energy if certain guidelines are met. This thread is in favor of
looking at the limitless energy available, not why it is impossible to
even suggest.

Presenting YOUR view and dominating plus drowning out all others will
be considered a violation so if you call names or belittle have the guts
to remove it afterward, if you must attack.

No one likes a thread side lined or derailed regardless of how many smooth
sounding words you us.

Thank you and I hope each of you can enjoy the others personal way
of seeing and explaining opposing views.

[Allen Burgess]

Magnetic force between two parallel current carrying wires

@BroMikey,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Here's an excellent educational video on the magnetic force between two parallel current carrying wires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUyPy1AjdQ

[Allen Burgess]

Ampere's Force Law

The separation force between the two current carrying wires can be measured with a spring scale, and is calibrated in Newtons, a unit of force roughly equivalent to a fifth of a pound. Naturally, the force is directly proportional to the current in the wires. This force is expressed in Gauss. "The gauss, abbreviated as G or Gs, is the cgs unit of measurement of magnetic flux density".

"The form of Ampere's force law commonly given was derived by Maxwell and is one of several expressions consistent with the original experiments of Ampère and Gauss".

This force law establishes an electrical current to magnetic flux equivalency. There's a corollary, which is the magnetic flux to electrical current equivalency. Dr. Dragone did his doctoral thesis on this subject, and his theories were tested by me with his "Magnet Pump".

Let's say we build a coil around a tube magnet and feed enough current into it to suppress the permanent magnet field. What happens when we cut the power off? The resurging magnet field returns the electrical power to the inductor. This is the special relationship that's the central subject of this thread: How much energy is in a permanent magnet?

[Allen Burgess]

Lambda 13.7

The magnet has to do work to re-assert it's field after the electrical suppression field in the coil is curtailed, and consumes heat and grows cold. This work generates excess energy, and the magnet absorbs heat from the ambient environment to fuel itself. Here JLN measures the power in and power out at a ratio of nearly 14 times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WEXbR9TBMM

The catch is that, if we had to generate the heat the magnets consume with electrical current, the COP would be very close to unity!

"Magnetic refrigeration is a cooling technology based on the magnetocaloric effect".

Pictured below:

"Gadolinium alloy heats up inside the magnetic field and loses thermal energy to the environment, so it exits the field cooler than when it entered".

[Allen Burgess]

Colonel Bearden's MEG

The reason why Colonel Bearden's MEG company filed for chapter 13 is that it would take all his MEG output to power a heater to return the magnets to starting temperature; So, no OU as claimed.

[BroMikey]

@BroMikey,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Here's an excellent educational video on the magnetic force between two parallel current carrying wires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUyPy1AjdQ

Wow I really do like this guys way of speaking, guys like him are hard
to find. He is young and sharp able to instruct. I look all of the time for
good speakers and I just don't find them.

Give me a chance to catch up on the reading.

[Allen Burgess]

Ampere Gauss-Watt Tesla.

Tinselkoala, Milehigh, Citfta and bistander all argued with me on the OU site and again here at Energetic Forum about the electrical equivalent to magnetic flux.

Citfta really piled on a heap of rubbish about the stupidity of coupling Watts and Teslas. It should be abundantly clear to everyone how Watts and Teslas
are simply scaled up values of Amperes and Gauss; Both electrical power equivalents of magnetic flux. This issue helped get me re-moderated over there as Synchro1.

[BroMikey]

Tinselkoala, Milehigh, Citfta and bistander all argued with me on the OU site and again here at Energetic Forum about the electrical equivalent to magnetic flux.
.

Thought they'de gang up on ya hey? Gang Bangers
I am sure these guys have wonderful bedside manner using watt
burning math.

We need some new fresh horses, ones that point out all the details
from start to finish without using that condescending tone.

Let'em try it, they all did the same thing to me Allen, they have no
clue who they are trying to scold.

So now you have your delivery platform that has included Beardon
good going, I forgot how many key players we have as examples
with experimental data, not just McGraw Hill parrots.

[Allen Burgess]

Quote from Stephan Hartiberlin:

Milehigh is on moderation now also again !

Quote from: synchro1 on May 03, 2017, 05:36:24 PM

#1395 "Kiss my ass" Milehigh.

The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency

[Diplomacy]

"Gadolinium alloy heats up inside the magnetic field and loses thermal energy to the environment, so it exits the field cooler than when it entered".

I was reading about this last night, came across an article while looking at different methods of cooling.

The ideal one for our purposes would undergo a phase transition at about room temperature while being as cheap as possible; we can settle with a slightly less efficient material so long as it is possible to extract the heat from it at a reasonable temperature.

Combine this with a properly designed bifilar pancake system and some piping and a pumping system we could get diy refrigeration.

Looking at prices of Gadolinium, it appears to be in the 300USD per kilo range so it will be pricey to experiment, however a solid state Figuera device style refrigerator oscillating 2 or more bifilar pancake coils through a block of the stuff would be a gift that would continue to operate for one's great grand children if it was made with care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet...rature_devices

There is a table of what has already been done with it, we need magnetic fields with a strength measuring somewhere from .5 to 5 Teslas.

[Allen Burgess]

I was reading about this last night, came across an article while looking at different methods of cooling.

The ideal one for our purposes would undergo a phase transition at about room temperature while being as cheap as possible; we can settle with a slightly less efficient material so long as it is possible to extract the heat from it at a reasonable temperature.

Combine this with a properly designed bifilar pancake system and some piping and a pumping system we could get diy refrigeration.

Looking at prices of Gadolinium, it appears to be in the 300USD per kilo range so it will be pricey to experiment, however a solid state Figuera device style refrigerator oscillating 2 or more bifilar pancake coils through a block of the stuff would be a gift that would continue to operate for one's great grand children if it was made with care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet...rature_devices

There is a table of what has already been done with it, we need magnetic fields with a strength measuring somewhere from .5 to 5 Teslas.

@Diplomacy,

5 Teslas of magnetic force would require an input of 18,000 Joules or 5 watt hours in a coil of 1 Henry of inductance. That's a lot of power for a Figuera device to generate isn't it?

[Diplomacy]

@Diplomacy,

5 Teslas of magnetic force would require an input of 18,000 Joules or 5 watt hours in a coil of 1 Henry of inductance. That's a lot of power for a Figuera device to generate isn't it?

My understanding is that the device shunts potential back and forth between the two sets of electromagnets, so long as you don't let the field collapse entirely you can rebuild it from partial collapse "cheaper" so to speak.

It is quite a bit of power though, yes.

[bistander]

More AB BS

5 Teslas of magnetic force would require an input of 18,000 Joules or 5 watt hours in a coil of 1 Henry of inductance. That's a lot of power for a Figuera device to generate isn't it?

It is quite a bit of power though, yes.

Hi Diplomacy,

I see you're new here. Allen and BM don't care much for facts or accurate calculations or even common sense. 5 watt hours. "Quite a bit of power"? I guess it's relative, but 5 wh of energy is about what a modern refrigerator uses in 7 minutes. And 5 T magnetic field is greater than what is used in MRI and would typically use superconducting coils if needed for more than a fraction of a second.

I don't intend to get involved in this thread. BM, the OP, has said in the first post that he's not wanting truth and facts here, just the infinite energy which he knows is there. I just chimed in to warn you.

bi

[Diplomacy]

Hi Diplomacy,

I see you're new here. Allen and BM don't care much for facts or accurate calculations or even common sense. 5 watt hours. "Quite a bit of power"? I guess it's relative, but 5 wh of energy is about what a modern refrigerator uses in 7 minutes. And 5 T magnetic field is greater than what is used in MRI and would typically use superconducting coils if needed for more than a fraction of a second.

I don't intend to get involved in this thread. BM, the OP, has said in the first post that he's not wanting truth and facts here, just the infinite energy which he knows is there. I just chimed in to warn you.

bi

I took his post to mean "5 watt hours of power every time the electromagnet is fired up".

Making such a magnetic field conventionally I think is obviously not practical, but this doesn't seem to be a place for the conventional and the Tesla pancake style coils show promise.

In either case I am here to learn and discuss, please forgive any mistakes.

[Gambeir]

@BroMikey,

Thanks for starting this thread.

Here's an excellent educational video on the magnetic force between two parallel current carrying wires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUyPy1AjdQ

I got some issues here with this video. What they don't tell you about Left hand and Right hand rules is the history behind those ideas and which have now produced confusion about polarity charges and their direction of flow, and which originated with ideas about whether a positive was ground or a negative was ground. So you have to be aware that a right hand rule can be applied to a negative polarity. The way to determine which is which is to look at the ground. Be aware of this historical fact. Not many places tell you about this historical screw up: Triva I ran in to while examining the rule.

* There is no law which says that the right hand rule is only applied to a positive charge. That only happens to be the way it's applied in our time. Not how it was applied at a previous time.

Now I know that I don't know anything about electronics and electrical theory, but while the theory may be correctly stated, it doesn't actually work that way. Not unless electrical magnetism is different somehow.

How many people have actually taken two magnets and followed along with the ideas presented in the video? I have and it doesn't work. The drawings of the current flows in the video are both flowing the same direction.

Take two magnets with like poles facing upwards, now no matter which way you face them in parallel they repel each other. They don't attract each other. They will only attract if one pole is reversed from the other, and that means facing down and only down and away from the other magnetic field. The drawings being used in this video show both poles in the same direction, this represents two like poles facing the same way.

If you have two like poles the wires repel each other, not attract each other. In the video he claims the wires are attracted to each other.
Am I missing something here? I'd hate to be doing this once more. https://markitgroupmedia.files.wordp.../dunce-cap.png