Faraday Disc 2.0

[spacecase0]

not a waste of time at all,
others have suggested that the outer conductor (the stationary one connected to the outer brush) is why the homo polar generator works
and seems to me like the tests are proving this true

[lotec]

not a waste of time at all,
others have suggested that the outer conductor (the stationary one connected to the outer brush) is why the homo polar generator works
and seems to me like the tests are proving this true

I'm not sure I understood that,, Does that mean others might have suggested something the same as what I might have suggested, or is there some stuff I need to rethink. Until I have working device, I'm prepared to rethink everything,

[spacecase0]

just saying that theory is not doing us much good here,
so, seems like a good plan to just keep trying things till we figure out what works.
then we can match a theory to it after it is physically working

[lotec]

Here's a look inside before it gets bolted up.

[lotec]

A Bit more about this build, now it is nearly ready for testing. Ive stayed with the concept of a wound torioid sandwiched between two magnets, N or S facing inwards or opposing.

Having come to the conclusion that flux cutting wire while entering the toroid makes opposing currents to flux cutting wire coming out of the toroid, giving a net result of zero, I should say something about the strategy this build uses to attempt to overcome this issue.

It seems to make sense to me, that if trying to magnetically shield the wires in regions where induction is not want wanted, the best place to do this the outer face windings where there is more surface area to play with, in terms of making lower reluctance pathways around the wire.
Thats why Ive gone for the outer flux guide and end guides, to draw the flux outwards where the windings are embedded into the toroid. Because the magnets I have at hand overhang a bit in the middle any stray flux should be drawn into the toroid through the inner face, so that is a bonus.

Sometimes I wonder, did I back the right horse with this build, in terms of, lines of force rotating with the magnets, and will my attempts at shielding the areas of the toroid that cause cancellation, be enough to even show a voltage of any description. In terms of dimensions of components and strategies for shielding, there is so much room for improvement.

[Ufopolitics]

Why I think it will not work...

A Bit more about this build, now it is nearly ready for testing. Ive stayed with the concept of a wound torioid sandwiched between two magnets, N or S facing inwards or opposing.

Having come to the conclusion that flux cutting wire while entering the toroid makes opposing currents to flux cutting wire coming out of the toroid, giving a net result of zero, I should say something about the strategy this build uses to attempt to overcome this issue.

It seems to make sense to me, that if trying to magnetically shield the wires in regions where induction is not want wanted, the best place to do this the outer face windings where there is more surface area to play with, in terms of making lower reluctance pathways around the wire.
Thats why Ive gone for the outer flux guide and end guides, to draw the flux outwards where the windings are embedded into the toroid. Because the magnets I have at hand overhang a bit in the middle any stray flux should be drawn into the toroid through the inner face, so that is a bonus.

Sometimes I wonder, did I back the right horse with this build, in terms of, lines of force rotating with the magnets, and will my attempts at shielding the areas of the toroid that cause cancellation, be enough to even show a voltage of any description. In terms of dimensions of components and strategies for shielding, there is so much room for improvement.

Hello Lotec,

Friend, I hate to see you building something that is not going to work...So, I will go over in detail about your build versus the known Magnetism Concepts.

First, I do not understand why you did not wind the FULL toroid Core,,,and just did that little wire spaced apart?
In order to reach a Full Copper Disc Mimicking or Replication, there must be AS MUCH wire as you could get, in order to capture ALL Areas of Field.

Second...up to now, there have not been shown a PROVEN way nor a Method to actually "shield" "PORTIONS" of Magnetic Lines of Force...This Lines would go through absolutely every single existent material (mass) on this whole planet...You will find a lot of tests with "MU Metals" which are awfully expensive...and still do nada....a waste of time and money.

Edit: (Just in case I have some future arguments about my above statement) I need to cite here Faraday Cage, as a well known method to "shield" magnetic fields...Yes, it works, but ONLY if the WHOLE FIELD is contained WITHIN CAGE. And above Lotec and me are referring to PORTIONS of the Magnetic Field, or "Only Specific Areas" and not the whole thing.

The only solution to your efforts to avoid some wires not to be induced, is by either REDIRECTING these lines of force, by using ferromagnetic parts which concentrate HIGHER (but not all) flux, to DRIVE them away from the area you don't want them there...OR, by simply moving all that wire away from the area, which would lead to a different type of winding...IMO, the first option is much easier...HOWEVER, NONE of the above needs to be done IF BUILT RIGHT!!

Third, Your whole "dynamic" geometry which actually is in charge to generate induction (Conductor plus magnetic field(s)) is too reduced, too small, too narrow, and if you get any EMF Voltage at all... it would be in the nano-voltage levels, and so, you will need a highly sensitive equipment to detect it....your typical meter will not even trigger.

If your magnets are strong enough, like Neo's...then, you could EXPAND AND AMPLIFY their field DIAMETER by using much wider iron Washers, which should cover ALL Copper Conductors, in a MUCH wider Toroid. Another example of Redirection of Fields

Fourth: Your Toroid should NOT be made of a ferromagnetic material...any plastic or fiberglass washers will do...Iron Toroids generate their Induced Fields WITHIN its CORE material, so there would NOT be part of the exchange with outer Inducing field(s).

The conductor LENGTH, measured from outer circumference to inner is directly related to greater output, and NOT the HEIGHT based on disc thickness.

Magnetic Induction is an exchange of actions-reactions between Inducing and Induced Fields, and actually MOST of this exchange takes place SPATIALLY.

In the case of this Homopolar Generator, there are only ONE Inducing Field with ferromagnetics, the magnet(s) while the single copper disc, is just what it is...a copper disc, NOT a "sandwiched" two copper disc with inner iron disc in the middle...the minute you do that...it will cancel induction.

You are doing just that "sandwich option" by using an iron toroid wrapped with copper wires.

You MUST Visualize the invisible fields in your builds...

Use first just N-S Chains, NOT Repulsion!...why use repulsion if the "OEM" (Faraday Device) never used NEITHER TWO Magnets, MUCH LESS two in opposition?

Try to keep it simple friend...it is NOT a way to complicate builds by adding MORE stuff which was NEVER on the original platform, out of which...we do not even know why and how it REALLY works, even being SO simple as it was?.

Rotating the Magnet in your geometry will NOT, rotate the lines of force...it has been proven since the old days... and unless that now you are still not convinced...I don't see the point to doubt this fact....

Spinning magnet with static conductors will generate zero volts...spinning both will make volts...spinning conductors and static magnet will also make volts...isn't that enough proof that, no matter how fast you spin that magnet ALONE...its field will not even notice there is a rotation going on?

Magnetic Fields have absolutely NO INERTIAL-PHYSICAL MASS, therefore, COULD NOT, EVER, be triggered or engaged by a PHYSICAL ROTATION based on COMMON*, CONCENTRIC ROTATIONAL AXES.

*Common, Concentrical Axes, understood as Rotation Axis PLUS Magnetic Field Axis (which could be also defined as the "B-Field" Vector) where BOTH Axes are common or using the same space.

Rethink it...then build it right...just my opinion friend.

Sorry about long post, and hoping it will help you in your development...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[lotec]

Hi,
I said in one of my previous posts that reporting negative results can be helpful, although it can be embarrassing I am following through with that. I thought my experiments were getting better not worse, showing things like no particular or usable gains here or there. Its been a while since Ive done an absolute fizzer, but in my mind this one qualifies.

Although no absolute conclusions can be drawn from that device, I'm finding it more and more tempting to entertain the idea that the magnetic lines of force do rotate with the magnet and where they cut the outer brush or the wire attached to it (depending), that is the source of the induction. Following on from that reasoning the disk just becomes a way to complete the circuit, as long as it is rotating with the magnet, otherwise it would become a source of induction for opposing or canceling EMF's.

In hindsight, I find this idea to be a bit more digestible, than some of the others Ive entertained in the past.

Regards.

[lotec]

Hello Lotec,
Friend, I hate to see you building something that is not going to work...So, I will go over in detail about your build versus the known Magnetism Concepts.

Hello Ufopolitics,
Thanks I appreciate that, and I take your suggestions very seriously.

First, I do not understand why you did not wind the FULL toroid Core,,,and just did that little wire spaced apart?
In order to reach a Full Copper Disc Mimicking or Replication, there must be AS MUCH wire as you could get, in order to capture ALL Areas of Field.

That was done as an attempt to divert as much flux as possible away from the windings on the outer face of the toroid.

Second...up to now, there have not been shown a PROVEN way nor a Method to actually "shield" "PORTIONS" of Magnetic Lines of Force...This Lines would go through absolutely every single existent material (mass) on this whole planet...You will find a lot of tests with "MU Metals" which are awfully expensive...and still do nada....a waste of time and money.

That interesting to know, Ill be thinking very seriously before splashing out. It probably will never happen.

The only solution to your efforts to avoid some wires not to be induced, is by either REDIRECTING these lines of force, by using ferromagnetic parts which concentrate HIGHER (but not all) flux, to DRIVE them away from the area you don't want them there...OR, by simply moving all that wire away from the area, which would lead to a different type of winding...IMO, the first option is much easier...HOWEVER, NONE of the above needs to be done IF BUILT RIGHT!!

Having the wires spaced out like that and embedded into an air gap that were cut into the toroid, was the attempt to divert as much flux away from them as possible, but I agree, you've confirmed most of the doubts I had about that process. To help seal the deal I could have cut slits into the outer flux guide, corresponding to those groups of windings.

Third, Your whole "dynamic" geometry which actually is in charge to generate induction (Conductor plus magnetic field(s)) is too reduced, too small, too narrow, and if you get any EMF Voltage at all... it would be in the nano-voltage levels, and so, you will need a highly sensitive equipment to detect it....your typical meter will not even trigger.

If your magnets are strong enough, like Neo's...then, you could EXPAND AND AMPLIFY their field DIAMETER by using much wider iron Washers, which should cover ALL Copper Conductors, in a MUCH wider Toroid. Another example of Redirection of Fields

I couldn't agree more with that, you've elaborated precisely my concerns I mentioned in a previous post, about the dimensions of the components. By rights I shouldn't have entered into the build with those levels of compromise. Maybe doing that was better than wasting time and money at the pub betting on the horses. I have to go back to work in a few days and I didn't have time to wait for ideal parts, so it was that or nothing, so I took a gamble with my time. The negative result I posted in my previous post is by no means absolute and could possibly be attributed to any or all of the compromises I was forced to make.

Fourth: Your Toroid should NOT be made of a ferromagnetic material...any plastic or fiberglass washers will do...Iron Toroids generate their Induced Fields WITHIN its CORE material, so there would NOT be part of the exchange with outer Inducing field(s).

Do you mean like CMMF's? I didnt't think of that. Thanks, but wont those be generated anyway but to a lesser extent?

Youve given me alot of useful ideas to consider, I appreciate your input. Just to recap, in my last post all I did was report a negative result, not state that this build was sufficient to come to absolute conclusions about the way this world works.

Regards from Your friend
lotec

[bistander]

Experiment

Hi lo,

I've been quiet about your experiment as I wasn't certain of what exactly you were doing and didn't want to interfere or distract. But now that it is over, I'll throw in this. The conclusion and tempting reasoning which you describe below is what part 2 of that video disproves. And yes, that is hard to digest.

Thanks for sharing.

bi

...
Although no absolute conclusions can be drawn from that device, I'm finding it more and more tempting to entertain the idea that the magnetic lines of force do rotate with the magnet and where they cut the outer brush or the wire attached to it (depending), that is the source of the induction. Following on from that reasoning the disk just becomes a way to complete the circuit, as long as it is rotating with the magnet, otherwise it would become a source of induction for opposing or canceling EMF's.

In hindsight, I find this idea to be a bit more digestible, than some of the others Ive entertained in the past.

Regards.

[lotec]

Hi lo,
i

Hi bi,
That type of humor might be wasted on some people. but not me.

I've been quiet about your experiment as I wasn't certain of what exactly you were doing and didn't want to interfere or distract. But now that it is over, I'll throw in this. The conclusion and tempting reasoning which you describe below is what part 2 of that video disproves. And yes, that is hard to digest.
i

Your always welcome to interfere or distract me any time you want. A fresh line of reasoning is always a bonus. Although sometimes some people just have to see some things for themselves. I suppose calling it an experiment would be using the term loosely. It could probably be better described as a poor attempt at making a higher voltage generator, possibly lower lenze drag than some, running with the concept of non rotating lines of flux. Had the result been positive it could have supported a number of things simultaneously, or if negative, not said much about anything at all. That was the gamble I was willing to take.

That last line of reasoning seems more digestible, but that doesn't make it right, and nothing is set in stone for me. The fact that it is not in line with the conclusions of Maxwell, Kennard and "The Video" pt 2, doesn't sit very well with me either. A couple of things in the second video raise a doubt with me, like the pulsing of the current supplying the electro-magnet, the term navigation by fixed stars ( which he could have been using the term relatively), and how well known is the outcome of the interaction of a magnetic field applied to the dielectric of a capacitor especially when it is being pulsed. Just a couple of thoughts.

I guess at the end of the day working devices say the most. I just took a shot, and unfortunately was not able to deliver.

Thanks for keeping things lite,
bye bi , hope to talk with you soon,

regards
lo

Edit.......Silly question about the capacitor and magnetic field. Kennard did say rotating the capacitor alone did nothing, so his meter leads weren't being cut with flux affecting the meter , and he went to the trouble of using amber as a dialectic so it rotated with the capacitor to show the capacitor wasn't being polarized that way . So it wasn't fair on Maxwell, for me to cast unnecessary doubts on Kennards experiment.