Charge Pump Circuit

[dragon]

Excellent Wistiti - your set up looks a lot cleaner than most of my quickie builds for testing, I tend to make quite a mess. Yes, I'm using a 12v battery in C1 position.

I'm not concerned with brightness, it's more about the radiant energy being emitted - at least for the output I'm looking for. So far I'm pretty impressed with the halogen bulbs - heat wise. Haven't had much time to work with them but I think they perform equal to or maybe a little better than the nichrome coils I've been testing... the bulbs were inspired by SkyWatchers "spot light" test.

getting late, another long day tomorrow...

Edit: It just dawned on me that you could take the toroid transformer and wind another coil on it with less turns than the 12 volt side. Connect the new windings between caps and resistive load and use the 12 volt side as the output. This might help in matching the load and increase current into the battery being charged. You might need to experiment with turns to find the most efficient output... just a passing thought...

Patent number 3,963,976 for a simple pulsed battery charger - almost like you have but instead of a diode going to your battery use a mosfet ( or another relay ) to pulse the output. If you have a cap in the range of the patent that you can charge to 20-30 volts you'll be able to push 20 amps into the battery pulsing it.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, here is the 100 watt spotlight, halogen bulb load.
https://youtu.be/gr_OMoyuO0k

peace love light

edit: thanks for sharing the picture dragon, thats a pretty heavy load, how much heat would you say is coming off those bulbs.
And thanks wistiti for sharing your pic and drawing, look forward to your results with your halogen bulbs also.

[Wistiti]

Nice job Sky!

does some of you guys have try to boil water with this circuit?

[dragon]

Looks like your mechanical switch works quite well SkyWatcher, you might benefit a bit if you could adjust the frequency a little higher if possible.

I did some very quick tests with the bulbs last night... using aluminum and copper as the absorbers. The aluminum warmed to 180*F, the copper to 400*F. Both are not oxidized and function more as reflectors at this point so the numbers were only an indicator of what could be done. With the above, using numbers attained from the copper, each bulb produced 85 BTU - total of 850 BTU for the 10 bulbs. I believe this could be doubled using oxidized copper or even coating the copper with stove paint.

Initially I didn't believe the 12 volt system could be made to produce any high volume of heat (BTU) which is why I started working on the larger HV system. This may have changed my mind. It also dawned on me that using 2 separate systems driven by one battery switching 180* apart would use about the same amount of energy as a single unit.

Wistiti, do a quick search for 12 volt heating elements. I use a 300 watt 12 volt element in my hot water heater that is pulsed all day long. Keeps it plenty warm...

[ricards]

850 BTU is almost 900 Kilo Joules and you could double it?!

are you using the same 1 farad caps @ 12v?

that's just about 72 Joules and your not discharging them fully..

it seems dragon has been heating stuff very efficiently.

I guess I'm being left out of the fun, my build is just nearly complete.

maybe my math is wrong hope someone can clarify some calculations. thanks

[dragon]

Looks like your spot on... I have an average of 20 amps through the bulbs with a peak of 250 watts, a frequency that doesn't allow much fluctuation in the elements (very little cooling between pulses ). Since we're heating with radiant energy, not necessarily the electric input, we can achieve some interesting gains on heat production.

As you continue moving up in frequency -radio, microwave, infrared, ultraviolet, Xray, gamma etc, the energy available increases exponentially. Heat, any heat source, is just one way to produce IR frequencies. So then... what is radiant energy?

[Wistiti]

Hi Dragon!

It also dawned on me that using 2 separate systems driven by one battery switching 180* apart would use about the same amount of energy as a single unit.

Can you please elaborate more on this? Am not sure to quite understand...

Wistiti, do a quick search for 12 volt heating elements. I use a 300 watt 12 volt element in my hot water heater that is pulsed all day long. Keeps it plenty warm...

Thank you for the input! I have a 150w 12v and a 300w 12v ordered. I would really appreciate to warm some water cheaply with that concept...

When you said you pulsed the hot water heater all day long, is it with the same battery without charging it..?? If so I will really love to know how you achieve it! Right now I have interesting results but my battery drain flat in couple hours.



Ricards I will love to see your next setup!

[ricards]

When you said you pulsed the hot water heater all day long, is it with the same battery without charging it..?? If so I will really love to know how you achieve it! Right now I have interesting results but my battery drain flat in couple hours.



Ricards I will love to see your next setup!

yo wistiti,

glad to be working on the same project again!

you could try the switching scheme I had on my video, you can see the battery would not run down fast this way (it might not run down at all ), its like putting the battery at C3 Position but you have to charge C1 every cycle.

Back_n_Forthpng.png

this has some drawback though,, if you put your load on the coil in that schematics you would only power it by the potential difference of your battery and the capacitor, (usually half your battery voltage 6-7 volts).

If you power your load in between capacitor (@ SW3) you would be powering at an unspecified voltage (I could not get any measurement) but this is the optimum location of the load as the release of that capacitor as it discharge to the battery is instantaneous it would be as if the only resistance was your load and the wire that connects it. BUT.. of course another drawback is you would only get output 1/3 of the time unlike your current configuration.

[Wistiti]

Hi Ricards!
It's a pleasure for me too to have you on this project!

Thank's for your input! Can you please elaborate a bit more on the circuit you use to drive these 3 relay? What do you use as the clock??

[dragon]

I get the impression people are viewing this circuit as some kind of overunity device.... As I stated in the other thread where this started, it is not. It's simply a method of generating an "activity" that will drive a load larger than a given input would normally allow. The "peak" current and voltage will drive heavy loads, the "average" will sustain current/voltage long enough until the next peak pulse. Peaks drive the element, averages keep them from cooling.

Reducing the input requirement is the only objective at this point. Recycling is just one method to achieve it. You still have to replenish the source but the amount is far less.

Edit: clarification for driving 2 pumps with one source...

[Wistiti]

Thank you dragon for the clarification.
Don't worry I do not think it is other thing than a "better" way to drive resistive load

It will take some days before I can play again with it. But will look forward to what you guys will share.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, i have an idea I'm going to try.
It is based off of dragons double pass circuit drawing, fig.2, in his charge pump compare pic.

I will use one 12 volt battery to power my dc/dc boost converter, the output from that boost converter, will replace the battery shown, though i will set the voltage at some higher level, depending on what is best.

Then, i will have another 12 volt battery, on the other switching leg, in series with the capacitor and a low resistance, high power load.

I feel this will work well, because the capacitor will always, only be discharged to 12 volts, or whatever the secondary battery voltage level is at.
The higher voltage on capacitor, should help reduce amp draw on the boost converter.
Also, the boost converter will be switched out of the other circuit, similar to bedinis cap dump circuits, so the charge battery and load will be floating, to then receive the capacitor dump.

By this method also, we can swap the 12 volt battery positions, for extended run time.
Thoughts welcome.
peace love light

[dragon]

Hi all, i have an idea I'm going to try.
It is based off of dragons double pass circuit drawing, fig.2, in his charge pump compare pic.

I will use one 12 volt battery to power my dc/dc boost converter, the output from that boost converter, will replace the battery shown, though i will set the voltage at some higher level, depending on what is best.

Then, i will have another 12 volt battery, on the other switching leg, in series with the capacitor and a low resistance, high power load.

I feel this will work well, because the capacitor will always, only be discharged to 12 volts, or whatever the secondary battery voltage level is at.
The higher voltage on capacitor, should help reduce amp draw on the boost converter.
Also, the boost converter will be switched out of the other circuit, similar to bedinis cap dump circuits, so the charge battery and load will be floating, to then receive the capacitor dump.

By this method also, we can swap the 12 volt battery positions, for extended run time.
Thoughts welcome.
peace love light

Aren't you the clever one !!

[Wistiti]

Aren't you the clever one !!

Hahahaha! For sure he is!

Skywatcher is one of the few builders I know who is not only cleaver but also honest and respectful with ANY others (even when they use aggressive language). He always share is experiment and idea freely with others. I personally learn many things with is experiments (sure many others too!) And for that he deserve a big thumb up!!! Definitively the fellow you want to have in this kind of builders team!!!



Really nice idea Sky!
I will be out of building for few days but cant wait to try it!
Looking forward to you experiment!

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks for the kind words and thank you for drawing those circuits.

The top drawing is what i had in mind and the middle one, with the added capacitor on the boost converter output, might be beneficial.
My boost converter has almost 1000uF already built in.

The bottom circuit drawing, The capacitor dump into the dual mode battery, might enter into the input of the boost converter and cause a problem.

Also, discharging and charging the same battery, not sure how good that is for the battery, though the 1984 bedini generator seemed to use that method.

Hi wistiti, I can say the same for you, you are an honest and sharing soul and clever of course.
I'm glad my efforts are of help to people, I enjoy experimenting also.

I will be assembling this idea, as soon as i can, we will see how it goes.
peace love light