Charge Pump Circuit

[ricards]

Hi Ricards!
It's a pleasure for me too to have you on this project!

Thank's for your input! Can you please elaborate a bit more on the circuit you use to drive these 3 relay? What do you use as the clock??

Wistiti,

I only use 555 + cd4017 to make a clock based oscillator, you can try other but this is the cheapest and most convenient for me as I can simply replace chips If they fail/burnout, I only mount them on 8 and 16 pinouts modules.

this is what I'm upto now, in layout 3 is the actual circuit in a test board, the other is a schematic I drew up to eliminate relay by using FET and Optocoupler, this is like the upgraded version of what I'm telling you, you can reverse engineer it.
Back_n_Forth-Layout3.pdf
Back_n_Forth-SS.pdf

[dragon]

Skywatcher, glad I could add inspiration to your creative thoughts... that's the whole idea. I added the cap in the second drawing because it seemed the converter might have to work pretty hard in bursts or slow down the charging process, with the cap it would act as a buffer and allow full amps through the load charging the other cap. This way the converter has more time to maintain a charge and wouldn't instantly go to full output.

The last drawing I was simply speculating ways to reduce it to its simplest form. As long as the cap dump voltage was lower than the max rating on the converter it shouldn't matter. Most of the energy would go to recharge the first cap and anything left over would help maintain the battery. No different than putting a charger on the battery and running a load from the same battery, the input is shared and the biggest draw gets the charge.

I plan to set up a simple version of it when time allows, in the meantime I'll see how everyone does with the idea. Still have a couple weeks of work to catch up on.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi dragon, I'm also glad that you freely share your creativity, this realm would be a sad place, if nobody gave freely of themselves in some way.

Yes, what you have described about your circuit variations, is exactly what I thought your intentions were.

I tried the top circuit, the one that came into mind and it works well, though i used a computer power supply, as input to the boost converter and i could see the colored leds that are in the psu, dim at times, though the killawatt meter showed an average of 50 watts.
I'm sure if using a 12 volt battery instead of computer power supply and a capacitor buffer, it would be better, because i don't think the load was getting the amps it could have.

I then tested your bottom circuit variation and it seems to work fine also, the 30 watt, very low ohm resistor load was heating up quick.

Like i said, i don't know how efficient it is to discharge and charge the same battery like that, i'm going to say the battery probably doesn't like it so much.
Though since i still have that circuit variation setup, i will continue to test it and see what happens.

I also had to wire my two 1.5 farad capacitors in series, to handle the voltage and i also dug up a couple 1 farad car audio caps i had from previous experiments.
I'm using the 1 farads in series, as the buffer off the boost converter.
Testing shall continue.
peace love light

[ricards]

I get the impression people are viewing this circuit as some kind of overunity device.... As I stated in the other thread where this started, it is not. It's simply a method of generating an "activity" that will drive a load larger than a given input would normally allow. The "peak" current and voltage will drive heavy loads, the "average" will sustain current/voltage long enough until the next peak pulse. Peaks drive the element, averages keep them from cooling.

Reducing the input requirement is the only objective at this point. Recycling is just one method to achieve it. You still have to replenish the source but the amount is far less.

Edit: clarification for driving 2 pumps with one source...

for sure currently in its form.. its not. we've all proved that to ourselves with experiment.
BUT! to be able to use the same Energy twice! (or more)... is really something, imagine if you could do a successful 80% efficiency energy conversion.. that could have been at 160% output...

but then again that only applies assuming that there was no "Energy Conversion" that it was just "Cause and Effect"... electric current was the cause and Heat was the Effect or Electric current was the cause and magnetism was the effect.. this is what I'm trying to find out with experiments.. since we already know how to use the same energy twice.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, here is a video showing dragons circuit variation in action.

The circuit with the single battery powering the boost converter and so being discharged and charged intermittently, while also powering a resistor bank load.
Here is circuits drawn by dragon, this video is based on the bottom circuit.


https://youtu.be/AI6Sir7ZL60

As you can see, the volt meter is showing the 12 volt tractor battery being discharged and charged.
The 30 watt-.5 ohm resistor bank heats up rather quickly.

The 12 volt battery resting voltage was 12.57 volts and recovers to that or just below after an hour or so.

I will test this variation some more, though i still feel the dual battery version might be more efficient, then the batteries can be swapped, we shall see.
peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, just want to share an interesting observation.
The voltage on the 12 volt battery is still resting at 12.57 volts, after well over 4 hours.
I ran that circuit for at least 30 minutes today.
Seems promising, maybe the dual battery setup would be even better.
peace love light

[ricards]

Hi all, just want to share an interesting observation.
The voltage on the 12 volt battery is still resting at 12.57 volts, after well over 4 hours.
I ran that circuit for at least 30 minutes today.
Seems promising, maybe the dual battery setup would be even better.
peace love light

well, isn't that great sky! it would seem your just borrowing the energy from the battery and returning it back without loss in potential,

just finished my build, will run it overnight, the light from the my mini bulbs are blinding, hope they last till tomorrow, there was literally no conductor connecting the positive to the negative all being blocked by either the dielectric of the capacitor or the electrolyte of the battery and yet we could get an output.

yes this is indeed promising!.

[mikrovolt]

So then... what is radiant energy?

accelerated charges braid together in many ways to form a rope
like structures freezing the magnetic flux. As that structure is unraveled
the stretched magnetic flux instantly snaps back like a rubber band.

[dragon]

accelerated charges braid together in many ways to form a rope
like structures freezing the magnetic flux. As that structure is unraveled
the stretched magnetic flux instantly snaps back like a rubber band.

The theory sounds interesting Mikrovolt, do you have a method to test and prove this possibility? I'd be interested in a "side" project if it can be done on a small budget.

I've done some work with storing energy in compressed magnetic fields which isn't to far out of line with the charged capacitors in this pump, simply different forms of energy with a similar response when released. Neither are radiant although they do interact with the local environment.

[mikrovolt]

The charge pump example uses a mechanical switch causing an impulse.
a simpler case can be used about what is known about radiant energy.
Unlike the stationary charge a moving charge has two properties.

A simulation relates to the mathematic derivation.
Electromagnetic field of an accelerated charge

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, I'm testing a different variation of the charge pump.
It is like my initial variant, based off the dragons double pass circuit.

Though instead of the single 12 volt battery powering the boost converter, It is only using two 12 volt tractor batteries in series and the single 12 volt battery on the other switching leg as the charging battery.
It does seem efficient so far.

I ran it for 20 minutes and oddly, the voltages increased a little on the input series batteries and of course the charge battery to a large degree.
These were the starting resting voltages of the batteries:
Battery A = 12.52 volts
Battery B = 12.53 volts
Battery C = 12.55 volts charge battery

Now the batteries are resting at these voltages after over a couple hours:
Battery A = 12.55 volts
Battery B = 12.54 volts
Battery C = 12.70 volts charge battery

Thoughts welcome, i will continue to test this variant.
peace love light

[ricards]

Hi all, I'm testing a different variation of the charge pump.
It is like my initial variant, based off the dragons double pass circuit.

Though instead of the single 12 volt battery powering the boost converter, It is only using two 12 volt tractor batteries in series and the single 12 volt battery on the other switching leg as the charging battery.
It does seem efficient so far.

I ran it for 20 minutes and oddly, the voltages increased a little on the input series batteries and of course the charge battery to a large degree.
These were the starting resting voltages of the batteries:
Battery A = 12.52 volts
Battery B = 12.53 volts
Battery C = 12.55 volts charge battery

Now the batteries are resting at these voltages after over a couple hours:
Battery A = 12.55 volts
Battery B = 12.54 volts
Battery C = 12.70 volts charge battery

Thoughts welcome, i will continue to test this variant.
peace love light

Hi sky,

it seems your only input was only for the switching huh?.. I guess that's the advantage of mechanical switching over electronic one, I do suffer from diode's and transistors voltage drop. 0.7V @ high capacitance can be a lot of energy, and my circuitry have like 4 diode pass...
what's the highest frequency you could ramp it up to?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi ricards, thanks for the reply.
Yes, switching input is from wall ac power.
I think this geared, microwave turn table motor can reach 35 rpm at 21vac, though i am applying about 12vac, so maybe it is rotating around 20 rpm.

Even though the charge battery C is already at full charge, i ran another 25 minute test run.
After 3 hours rest time, here is battery voltages.
Battery A = 12.56 volts
Battery B = 12.54 volts
Battery C = 12.71 volts charge battery
I will swap battery C into Battery B position for next run.
Here is circuit drawing.



peace love light

[dragon]

Very interesting SkyWatcher, Nicely done. I haven't actually calculated anything but as a quick visual analysis... charging the battery in position C seems to be very similar to the original circuit charging C2 (restoring the original energy to be reused). One of the differences being that one is recycled once every full cycle while the other is swapping positions of the batteries being charged.

You could reduce it to 2 batteries and charge battery B requiring battery A to be charged periodically or swapped with battery B.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks, i was actually thinking about trying something like that.

The only difference about your idea, is one of the batteries is being discharged and charged simultaneously, which may not be the most efficient, as far as batteries are concerned.
Though i will give it a try at some point here.
peace love light