Charge Pump Circuit

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi ricards, the load is being powered both ways, once through to the capacitor and again, back into the charge battery.

Hi dragon, good points, yes a large battery bank would be needed to appropriately absorb any higher power amperage setups.
Yes, i was watching some youtube videos of people running high power loads with those ultra capacitors, good ideas for sure.

And of course gadgetmall, he used a low power joule thief to charge an ultracapacitor, then powered a high power heating element and had enough left to keep the AA cells charged up.

I'm curious what type, size and voltage capacitor you had in mind, to be charged by the oscillator and what type of loads.

It still is interesting, that my batteries are maintaining voltage so well, though maybe the capacity is actually lower, maybe the voltage level is just creating illusion.
Though yes, I think the need for a large battery bank makes this not too practical, only for small loads needing small battery or battery bank.
Maybe i will try my 400 watt boost converter, and charge a capacitor bank to higher voltage and power some higher volt loads.
I have some different size, higher voltage caps. laying around to try.

This then is very much like bedinis cap dump circuit, think his used opto coupler, driving mosfets, dumping the capacitor bank.
peace love light

Like this circuit: http://www.free-energy.ws/pdf/bedini6677730.pdf

[ricards]

looping

Hi all, Hi sky,

If you could power a load, I'm sure you could also power a transformer, now take the secondary of that into a bridge rectifier into a bigger cap, once it reaches a specific voltage. dump it back to the batteries. you can do this manually or via comparator.

It will charge slow.. yes, given the low frequency. but it will charge that I'm sure I've tested them..

now in your current scenario, it seems the batteries are not going down... what happens If you add this suggestion?.. I could only guess..
but in my test I could get a 6800uf cap to 2.5v per pulse start from 0v and slow down charging as the voltage builds up in that cap. that was 100v 940uf cap on a small crappy step down transformer I could go upto 225v (cap rated at 450v.)... I would like to find out the result on high Henry & low resistance primary transformer...

lots and lots of test to do..

also one thing to note is If the Transformer Coil will "Convert" the "Electricity" into "Magnetism" in the primary and "Magnetism" back to "Electricity" into the secondary via magnetic Coupling, If the Supposed "Energy" is conserved and only converted.. or its just higher electric Potential Reduced to lower electric potential that has an effect (Magnetism or Heat etc..)..

[dragon]

SkyWatcher, I was referring to specific circuits in general that perform this way, such as the photo flash circuits, lasersabre's joule ringer, katcher etc. I've built them for many different voltages for different purposes - the components would vary depending on its designed purpose. We can run the oscillator at say 40khz and pulse the cap at 4 hz giving it a 10,000:1 charge rate. As long as the energy remains close to it's peak in the capacitor the oscillator will act as if it were charged and remain at a low level power consumption. If you start drawing large quantities of energy off the cap then the oscillator will try to make up the difference by pouring power into it. Again we are balancing the energy/time. A Low level charge for 10,000 cycles per 1 large peak output cycle.

Another way to do this is to build a tank circuit using the charge pump arrangement. The charged tank will act as an impedance of infinite resistance so the oscillator will always see the tank as a charged capacitor, the tank is driven to resonance by a secondary oscillator of a lower frequency. Input is then reduced to near zero which brings the system close to unity - input then becomes irrelevant...

Here is an example of such a system... ( here ).

[SkyWatcher]

Hi ricards, thanks for sharing, sound like good ideas, i know bedini did some similar surrounding the tesla switch experiments, it's in one of his energy books.
Higher to lower potential makes sense to me.

Hi dragon, thanks for making that clear.
I see, so there is no disconnection of the capacitor in what you are suggesting, just dump the capacitor at much lower frequency and do not allow the capacitor to discharge to a level where the oscillator will notice much.
peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, made some tests today with what is essentially, bedinis 2 phase charging system.
Though I'm using a 12 volt battery to charge the capacitor on the first phase and dumping capacitor on second phase.
I have the two 1.5 farad caps in series at the moment and it is dumping almost all the charge into the resistor bank load, so that is not quite what dragon had in mind i know.
So i had one thing in mind to try next and that is to power the boost converter off the 12 volt battery, then set the output voltage to maybe 15 volts.

This way, the capacitor bank will only discharge a small amount into another 12 volt battery being charged.
This method will be following the suggestion of dragon more closely and at the same time, it will use the 2 phase switching method, which may help efficiency as i assume it must, as why would bedini make a patent on something that had no practical value.
We shall see how it works, thoughts welcome.
peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, was able to run a few tests today.
I made a setup as dragon suggested, 12 volt battery powering boost converter and boost converter is switched in to charge a 3 Farad capacitor bank to around 15 volts.
The boost converter is then switched away and the capacitor bank is switched directly to a 12 volt battery for charging and then cycle continues.
It is basically bedinis patent i posted earlier in thread.

It does seem to be working quite well, even better with the 3 Farads, compared to only 1.5.
Maybe i will hook up the other two 1 Farad capacitors i have in parallel also, so we will have 5 Farads to play with, for serious battery bank charging or pulsing a heater or halogen bulbs.
peace love light

[dragon]

It's probably not appropriate to mix my work with Johns or anyone else's - the work I've done is unique to me and John's is unique to him - it's not fair to me or John to interpret them as the same which tends to distort the differences and confuse readers. It's one or the other. Compare them, understand the differences, favor one method over the other ... but foremost, make that distinction.

If you actually understand what I'm doing then you'll see the profound distinction. The purpose of what I originally posted was to show, in a simplistic way, one method to reduce the input needs to drive a heavy load. Reducing the input requirement in general. It seemed to morph quickly into battery charging as well as thoughts of how to "loop" it...as if it were producing more than we put into it. Possibly the general perception of what "Unity" is - is the actual problem. Perhaps, that would be a better place to start. Something more plainly described like .... If you have an input reading, you haven't reached unity. If you've reached unity there is no longer a need to loop it. In order to charge the input battery the output must exceed the energy supplied by the input, generally referred to as overunity. Overunity is an interpretation of energy entering the system from an unknown source. Once the source is known and understood it's no longer overunity but a recognized source of it's own.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks for sharing your views, I comprehend all of what you said, just experimenting here, never intended to confuse anyone.
I will be coming back to your circuit at some point here.
Also, the bedini variant i'm testing now, is not just a battery charger, it is similar in a way to your original circuit, in so far as the capacitor is floating and discharging into a load on the second phase and the load can be anything.
That is why I'm diverging at the moment in my experiments.
peace love light

Ok that point will be now, i will continue experiments with dragons original circuit.

[Wistiti]

It's probably not appropriate to mix my work with Johns or anyone else's - the work I've done is unique to me and John's is unique to him - it's not fair to me or John to interpret them as the same which tends to distort the differences and confuse readers. It's one or the other. Compare them, understand the differences, favor one method over the other ... but foremost, make that distinction.

If you actually understand what I'm doing then you'll see the profound distinction. The purpose of what I originally posted was to show, in a simplistic way, one method to reduce the input needs to drive a heavy load. Reducing the input requirement in general. It seemed to morph quickly into battery charging as well as thoughts of how to "loop" it...as if it were producing more than we put into it. Possibly the general perception of what "Unity" is - is the actual problem. Perhaps, that would be a better place to start. Something more plainly described like .... If you have an input reading, you haven't reached unity. If you've reached unity there is no longer a need to loop it. In order to charge the input battery the output must exceed the energy supplied by the input, generally referred to as overunity. Overunity is an interpretation of energy entering the system from an unknown source. Once the source is known and understood it's no longer overunity but a recognized source of it's own.

[dragon]

SkyWatcher, just to be clear - I think your doing great, you have a very creative and inquisitive mind as do many here. My intention isn't to force you or anyone into working with my circuit in as much as forming an understanding of what I'm doing with it, from there you can form your own ideas and take it further - hopefully exceed anything I've done and as a bonus I get to learn from you and others as you progress.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks for the kind words.
For now i have collected enough data with the battery charging setups.

Your setup still seems the most unique, with the recycling of the capacitor charge.
I added the other 1 farad car audio capacitors in parallel, so 2.5 farad per capacitor now, it really packs a punch now.
peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, just realized I have not made any tests on one of dragons circuit suggestions.
Ran it for 30 minutes just now, the battery getting charged is holding after turning off circuit and other battery seems to be recovering well.



peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, so almost 4 hours later and here is a little data.
Start resting voltage of batteries:
Battery A = 12.49 volts
Battery B = 12.50 volts

After almost 4 hours rest, after the 30 minute test:
Battery A = 12.48 volts
Battery B = 12.50-12.51 volts, charge and partial run battery.

peace love light

[ricards]

Idea of Looping

If you actually understand what I'm doing then you'll see the profound distinction. The purpose of what I originally posted was to show, in a simplistic way, one method to reduce the input needs to drive a heavy load. Reducing the input requirement in general. It seemed to morph quickly into battery charging as well as thoughts of how to "loop" it...as if it were producing more than we put into it. Possibly the general perception of what "Unity" is - is the actual problem. Perhaps, that would be a better place to start. Something more plainly described like .... If you have an input reading, you haven't reached unity. If you've reached unity there is no longer a need to loop it. In order to charge the input battery the output must exceed the energy supplied by the input, generally referred to as overunity. Overunity is an interpretation of energy entering the system from an unknown source. Once the source is known and understood it's no longer overunity but a recognized source of it's own.

Hi Dragon,

the Only reason I come-up with the Idea of looping is based on my observation.
basically when you power a Load, in our case we put the Load in series with a capacitor C2, then connect them to the source which is the battery C1, Initially this powers the load at the same time charges the capacitor C2.

we do the same with the second capacitor C3. now both capacitors are charged right?..

then the cycling starts..
we then connected the battery in series with one charged capacitor C2 then this series connection (Battery-Capacitor C2-Load) is connected parallel to C3, this will "Charge" C3 again at the same time powers the load again... now putting C2 and C3 Parallel THROUGH a Load will equalize the Voltage between the Two and again Powers the Load by the process.. and then the cycle repeats.

Yes you are loosing theoretically Half of the charge from C2 when you put it in series with C1 and some charge of C1 to charge C3, BUT! is it Inevitable?.. are we Limited to only 1 Load, I Think Not..

you see instead of Just a switch I tried to Put in different kinds in Between C1 and C2.
It may look like this
[Battery C1 - Load2 - C2 - Load1]
parallel to
[C3]
then
[Load2 - C2 - Load1]
parallel to
[C3]
in that Load2 I tried a bulb, a Short wire, Thick wire, and a Transformer.

yes the total resistance would add up and It will power the Load1 less.. BUT the question now will be.. If I put a Transformers on Load2 will It suck the "Energy" and convert it in the secondary of that transformer? and demand more from my battery C1.. or will it not...

I tried to make a comparison between a Transformer and a Short Wire.. very negligible difference in terms of resistance as the primary of that transformer is only 10 Turns and the wire was thicker.. very little Impedance too..

the result was (in my own observation) the same. no sophisticated test and precision equipment's were used so there's a chance that I'm wrong..
but I did the test using a small power supply charging a capacitor C1. it was constant, no sucking of energy whatsoever from the source..
It's as if the Magnetism was only an effect.

my take on that was It was a choice whether you chose to waste the energy in a short piece of wire, or put it into a Low Impedance Primary and benefit from that.

I actually made some crappy transformer by wrapping some wires into some piece of transformer steels. and put it In test..
I was getting something.. Is it Enough to Supply the Source?.. well no..
BUT I think it is enough to prove the Point of LOOPING.

I was pulsing 40000 uf 12v and getting a series connection of 5 Caps resulting to 60V 8000uf Pulse back to the battery There are 4 Step up (CRAPPY) Transformer total that Is distributed...

Question now is.. If I upgrade my Caps and Circuitry to accommodate the large bursts of energy and transformers for better output.. will I get the same Input and Output Ratio?..
as if everything is Proportioned?....

there's only one way to find that out.


also one worth mentioning is... Make sure the Transformer's Primary are Identical or very close...

as the Larger Impedance will be powered MORE!..

or to say that in other term.. the Larger Resistance will be Powered More!.
(I finally saw this Inverse Behavior..)

[ricards]

also another worth note..
if the activity voltage is high enough, you can stick any wire to any part of the circuit and be able to push-pull electron from the ground, that can be step-up or down.. step down is preferable..