Charge Pump Circuit

[dragon]

Ricards, you have a better understanding than I was giving you credit for - my apologies. Your simply trying to recover some of the energy moving through the system and return it to the source at any level possible. My interpretation of "looping" was the failure in my understanding of what you meant.

I've played with several circuits that will aid in the source recovery - I'm sort of up in the air about the percentage of return vs the reduction of output - it seems to balance as it shares the energy available. Is there an additional gain in the length of time it runs? I haven't seen anything conclusive that would indicate a gain within the system. Introducing the possibility of a secondary source... absolutely.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, interesting results with the latest variant.
I swapped the battery positions and ran it for 30 minutes again.

It seems that the battery that is in the charge position, always maintains its present voltage, it needs no recovery, it is just stays where it was.

The other battery, recovers and only loses .01 volts.
peace love light

[dragon]

Hi all, interesting results with the latest variant.
I swapped the battery positions and ran it for 30 minutes again.

It seems that the battery that is in the charge position, always maintains its present voltage, it needs no recovery, it is just stays where it was.

The other battery, recovers and only loses .01 volts.
peace love light

Nice job SkyWatcher ! Consider for a moment that you replace the charge battery (B) with a capacitor (C2)... you'll have almost the same operation as the original circuit.

I drew these up the other day comparing the different arrangements and realized fig1 and 3 are almost identical in how they function.

[dragon]

The thoughts of battery recovery inspired by Ricards and Skywatcher led to a few different attempts that I hadn't tried before. I'm still busy with other projects but do find a small amount of time late in the evening to tinker with ideas. After several different arrangements which didn't prove to be worth the effort, collecting in the range of 20% I came up with an idea that proved to be reasonably fruitful... close to a 40% return...

The diagram below shows the layout that was most successful...unfortunately, it does come at a cost of reduced output but with a little component matching it might be improved - to what degree I don't know... I need to stay focused on my current work so I'll leave it up to those interested...

That's all for tonight....

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks for sharing, looks like a promising circuit, looks to have some complicated switching, how much power can you get through that dt/dp relay.

I'm testing a little different setup, i initially charged a 12 volt battery off the back end, though i am testing now as more of a capacitor dump heater.

It's a 12 volt battery powering the boost converter, the output from boost converter has it's own switching leg, through a resistor bank and to the capacitor, which heats up the resistors and charges the capacitor to a certain level.
Then, the other switching leg, discharges the capacitor into the same resistor bank for even more resistor heating.
Seems efficient so far, more variables to test though.
peace love light

[ricards]

found someone who's doing similar concepts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6spVRIwOtk

[SkyWatcher]

Hi ricards, wow, thanks for sharing, he has made some very interesting experiments and all the other ideas he has shared.

I altered my test a little, one switching leg is taking output of boost converter, into resistor bank and into capacitor at 24 volts output.
Then other switching leg, which is 180 deg. out of phase, is dumping the capacitor, back through the same resistor bank and into the single and only 12 volt input battery, which is powering the boost converter as well.
Seems to be charging back the battery fairly well, needs more test runs though.
peace love light

[boguslaw]

Yes,he is right.
Eternal Motor

[dragon]

SkyWatcher, I used a basic DPDT switch because the batteries I was working with were small and easily charged to 16+ volts. Size the batteries or load to control the charge. I prefer that as much energy as possible go to driving the load and deal with the maintenance charge on the source battery in other ways... my personal preference...

It's the capacitive conversion that is of most interest to me. The near zero input circuits I've worked with over the last several years are based on the tesla patent 568180 which is the last of a series of 5, numbered sequentially, submitted in the same time frame. His explanation of the capacitor conversion process was laid out in patent 462418. Another patent that is very similar in function is his auto ignition patent where there is an inductor (choke) used at the source battery to charge the capacitor to a much higher level than the battery would normally allow prior to firing. An input boost circuit of sorts prior to the capacitive conversion . ( patent 609250 ).

That should be enough information to keep the mind gears turning for quite some time.

I'll add more as time allows...

...

[ricards]

Hi all,

I realized, you can actually just charge C1, with a zvs run by a battery, and you can have an accurate measurement of input power from the battery...

this way we can rectify the output and have the battery isolated from the circuit electrically, we can work this out at any voltage we design the zvs.

last few days I was trying to compare the charge time of a battery by direct pulse charging, and with this circuit on, the series charged capacitor C2 & C3 is pulsed back at battery C1.. I'm seeing lesser charge time..
my input was 12v 200ma regardless whether the circuit is on or not.
I had the looping concept incorporated in it.

sorry for bringing another looping concept.. its that the power I'm getting from the transformer is not enough to self run but is enough to charge the run battery(loop) and I could power a 3v motor by this charging process.
the 70ah battery is charging and the motor is running.. for 12v 200ma.

I'm not gonna go and spend the effort to do accurate measurements it clear its not even unity. I'll use the time to do that to actually improve it
and make it solid state..

the tick tick tick of the relay is actually annoying..

[SkyWatcher]

Hi dragon, thanks for the information, i've been reading those patents.

Hi ricards, thanks for sharing, is it possible for you to draw that circuit, am having a hard time visualizing it exactly.
peace love light

[ricards]

Sky,

The ZVS thing is just a thought.. I haven't even tried to draw the schematic to build it yet..

meanwhile, here is the schematic of that test.

Charge_Pump-Model.pdf

some notes worth mentioning..

I choose the transformer at SW3 instead of a Load as the size of the capacitors I currently have is not enough to lit the 50 watt bulb. (make use of it instead of a short piece of wire)...

before.. I was testing with the same setup but with only 10mF capacitors.. same transformer, same battery, same pulse charger, the 70Ah battery was not charging up.. it slowly discharges..

when I upgraded to 40mF.. the current flowing in those transformer primaries is enough to produce a magnetic field strong enough to cause an Induction to the secondary to actually charge the source battery.

when I try to slow the 3v Motor with my hand(mimic as if there was a load).. the Charge rate actually increases (battery raises Voltage undercharge).