Zero Force Motor Project

[BroMikey]

I am trying to compile good information here on our now departed
Dearest John Bedini's "ZERO FORCE MOTOR" Please help.

Thank you all for you kind regard.

BTW i heard this motor really cranks out the R's. And iron cores
regulate speed? Wow, iron inside the core.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPUajezZUng

[Aaron]

air core only

I am trying to compile good information here on our now departed
Dearest John Bedini's "ZERO FORCE MOTOR" Please help.

Thank you all for you kind regard.

BTW i heard this motor really cranks out the R's. And iron cores
regulate speed? Wow, iron inside the core.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo


---------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPUajezZUng

Ideally, NO iron in the core for the ZFM.

[BroMikey]

Ideally, NO iron in the core for the ZFM.

Is that like fantasizing? Ideally?

John was talking about it tearing itself apart so he put the iron in
to keep the speed down to what? 20G's? Keeps climbing.

I'm just playing around here so whats the rest of the story?
Maybe with a load on it you don't need
to regulate it down to 20,000 rpm's?

Can you imagine a 2 foot rotor at 20 G's? Better to load it. It is hard to
use a motor that is everywhere on rpm's, motors need to stay the same
I think so they can have a practical use. But the zero BEMF shows that
the motor does not waste.

[Aaron]

air core

Is that like fantasizing? Ideally?

John was talking about it tearing itself apart so he put the iron in
to keep the speed down to what? 20G's? Keeps climbing.

I'm just playing around here so whats the rest of the story?
Maybe with a load on it you don't need
to regulate it down to 20,000 rpm's?

Can you imagine a 2 foot rotor at 20 G's? Better to load it. It is hard to
use a motor that is everywhere on rpm's, motors need to stay the same
I think so they can have a practical use. But the zero BEMF shows that
the motor does not waste.

If it has iron, it is not a ZFM.

The window motors also should not have iron in the cores - iron gives lower speeds more torque and air gives higher speeds less torque so everyone has to figure out what balance they want, efficiency, recovery, etc...

It is important to go to John's early school of thoughts on the air core concept. I have more early notes from John that he never disclosed publicly that I will publish at some point that goes into much of this.

The ZFM actually does have back emf by the way.

[BroMikey]

If it has iron, it is not a ZFM.

The window motors also should not have iron in the cores - iron gives
lower speeds more torque and air gives higher speeds less torque so
everyone has to figure out what balance they want, efficiency,
recovery, etc...

It is important to go to John's early school of thoughts on the air
core concept. I have more early notes from John that he never
disclosed publicly that I will publish at some point that goes into
much of this.

The ZFM actually does have back emf by the way.

Yes I remember John doing video with those tiny air core jobs. So why
not take an SSG, (a Bedini) turn the coils sideways and remove the core?
You have the air force mtr? Or Zero IRON air Force mtr. Or let's call it zero iron force motor.

Thanks Aaron, I need those notes.

[BroMikey]

More pictures

[BroMikey]

Pictures of similar builds

[Bodkins]

Bromikey,

I got some crazy ideas for this, like always I got to build, play and have fun with it... yes its interesting that its a non iron coil with little amp draw and Now only us to work it out as Johns moved on. Aaron can be of help but the best teacher is experience.

Good luck!

[BroMikey]

Bromikey,

I got some crazy ideas for this, like always I got to build, play and have fun with it... yes its interesting that its a non iron coil with little amp draw and Now only us to work it out as Johns moved on. Aaron can be of help but the best teacher is experience.

Good luck!

John and Peter built prototypes, like a toy model to show off at the
science fair. Now it is up to us to build a practical one. Like all motors
and generators you want close tolerances. No more 1/2" gaps.

What this means is that like in a real motor the gap where slip in
calculated the gap must be brought down to at least 80 thousandths
of and inch. .060 is better but .090 will get you in the game. Weak
ferrite magnets are out. You want big strong magnets. This machine
has no cogging without iron in it so the bigger the better on Gauss.

After that, I have no words to add. I hear it runs up in RPM's without
any stopping point, like days I guess. It just keep going higher till it
explodes if you let it. I am sure it will fly into pieces. John didn't want his
explode so he added iron in the core after the motor reached extreme
speeds.

It is not practical to have a motor so unstable that it runs away to
detonation so something must be done on the order of what John did.
Maybe a circuit that lowers the input to match the amount of torque
loading needed so the rpm's do not present a danger to human life.

Any motor you can't turn your back on that runs away must be refined.

Maybe some form of magnet transmission could tap in mechanically to
regulate the speed.

[citfta]

Bro. Mikey,

I am going to try and be polite about this. But you don't know what you are talking about. Aaron has already told you that the ZFM DOES have BEMF. Any motor that has BEMF will only reach a speed where the BEMF balances with the current needed to over come friction and windage losses.

I have built two totally different versions of motors that had only air coils with no iron anywhere in the motor. Both of them will come up to speed and then stabilize. Use your head for a little bit. A magnet is passing a coil in the ZFM. A magnet passing a coil will generate a voltage in that coil. There is your BEMF that will control the speed of the motor.

Yes a Zero Force Motor will turn at a higher speed just as Aaron has already told you. But it will not run away.

You really need to build something and test it before you start telling everyone else how to do it.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[citfta]

A Zero Force Motor with nice stable speed.

https://youtu.be/IHtL6lGovwM

[BroMikey]

Bro. Mikey,

I am going to try and be polite about this. But you don't know what you are talking about. Aaron has already told you that the ZFM DOES have BEMF. Any motor that has BEMF will only reach a speed where the BEMF balances with the current needed to over come friction and windage losses.

I have built two totally different versions of motors that had only air coils with no iron anywhere in the motor. Both of them will come up to speed and then stabilize. Use your head for a little bit. A magnet is passing a coil in the ZFM. A magnet passing a coil will generate a voltage in that coil. There is your BEMF that will control the speed of the motor.

Yes a Zero Force Motor will turn at a higher speed just as Aaron has already told you. But it will not run away.

You really need to build something and test it before you start telling everyone else how to do it.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Carroll
I was trying to draw a response, I got it didn't I? Thanks
for the video, good stuff. I am only going on hearsay at the moment
as I am over loaded building other projects. However any beginning
needs a start where information is collected.

Aaron has more notes on the subject so I would like for him to see if
is okay to release anything on John's early test. Oh yeah I got his
response also.

Thanks guys, I am getting what I asked for. I have never built this one
yet so all I have to go on is these tube video's however some typing is
good also without the real experiment in progress.

You and a few others have built this, like Aaron so you guys have it
nailed down. I am glad to hear somebody shut me down to stop me
from rambling that makes good sense.

Yes I am going to use my head now and agree with you that the RPM's
will stabilize due to BEMF. This one and others are toy motors. What about
a real motor? I am asking only. What kind of RPM's are we looking for?

I think John B. stated 10,000 rpm's was possible.

So we have a tiny bit of BEMF that will eventually slow down a
real motor. You have to close the gaps and use strong magnets.

I am not sure about what you were saying about the coils? 4 coils
is better than 2 coils? Is that the generator or are you talking about
the coils on the ZFM?

[BroMikey]

A Zero Force Motor with nice stable speed.

https://youtu.be/IHtL6lGovwM

And I quote John Bedini in minute 1:30 he says QUOTE

"THERE REALLY IS NO BEMF ASSOCIATED WITH IT"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPUajezZUng

Here is my point, if it has BEMF and John says there is none then
where do I stand on my assumptions? The reason i bring it up is because
others have also stated that there is no BEMF so if there is I need to
know because multifilar coils should be used if that is the case.

Anyone care to explain what John meant?

[Aaron]

ZFM motor thread

A Zero Force Motor with nice stable speed.

https://youtu.be/IHtL6lGovwM

Awesome - glad to see a ZFM build - come share here if you're willing: Zero Force Motor Replication Project that is where most of the ZFM action is at.

[Aaron]

Long way to go

Hi Carroll
I was trying to draw a response, I got it didn't I? Thanks
for the video, good stuff. I am only going on hearsay at the moment
as I am over loaded building other projects. However any beginning
needs a start where information is collected.

Aaron has more notes on the subject so I would like for him to see if
is okay to release anything on John's early test. Oh yeah I got his
response also.

Thanks guys, I am getting what I asked for. I have never built this one
yet so all I have to go on is these tube video's however some typing is
good also without the real experiment in progress.

You and a few others have built this, like Aaron so you guys have it
nailed down. I am glad to hear somebody shut me down to stop me
from rambling that makes good sense.

Yes I am going to use my head now and agree with you that the RPM's
will stabilize due to BEMF. This one and others are toy motors. What about
a real motor? I am asking only. What kind of RPM's are we looking for?

I think John B. stated 10,000 rpm's was possible.

So we have a tiny bit of BEMF that will eventually slow down a
real motor. You have to close the gaps and use strong magnets.

I am not sure about what you were saying about the coils? 4 coils
is better than 2 coils? Is that the generator or are you talking about
the coils on the ZFM?

As Cifta said, the ZFM will not go into runaway mode. Also, you can simply vary the input. Yaro has demonstrated 12, 24, & 36 volt inputs from batteries and each has its own top speed.

Peter's and Yaro's each has been at over 13,000 rpm I believe.

Real motor - Yaro hooked his to a water pump to do real mechanical work so it is a real motor that does real work.

The ZFM is in its infancy - there is a long way to go.

2 pole vs 4 pole, etc... even the 2 pole still needs to be explored as it acts a bit different than 4 pole when you look at John's old lab notes.

Peter made the first 4 pole version. He has coils covering 90 degrees of the rotation - each coil is 90 degrees that is. Perhaps 60 or 120 is better - all those variables need to be tested to see the optimum. Aluminum vs Iron rotor, etc.