Zero Force Motor Project

[bistander]

Just words

...

So again, research it, look at John's whole model and see it from his own perspective instead of your own.

Hi Aaron,

How do I know what you mean by indisputable without researching you, looking at your entire body of work and seeing it from your perspective instead of my own, which is logically derived from creditable definitions and worldwide body of literature, language and general understanding? Felix Bloch was a distinguished scientist who won a Nobel Prize, had a lecture hall named after him at Stanford and was the first director of CERN. Using his name for whatever reasons Mr. Bedini had is quite different than redefining COP. It is disrespectful IMO.

But let's discontinue this sidetrack. Thankyou for your responses. I'll try to not let established word definitions influence my opinions of John Bedini's work.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

Hi All --

The easiest way to keep down the RPM's is to keep the voltage input to
the Bedini-Cole circuit under 36 volts. Since everyone will build their Zero Force Motor slightly different the resonance point where your motor coil goes into a 2500 RPM jump in just a few seconds is the scary part. Depending on the timing I can make my Zero Force Motor do this at 40 volts or at 55 volts. I have pushed the voltage up to 66 volts but only for a few seconds before backing off. I have had two events where the magnets few off even though they were glued on with some strong epoxy. To get to the higher voltages without using batteries I made a power supply that will go to 180 volts DC with an adjustable AC input. My Zero Force Motor will start to spin at 2.7 volts. Currently I am working on a special Pulse Width Modulator board to control the speed of the motor. I am looking into buying some shaft to shaft hook up pieces to hook my Zero Force Motor up to a Volkswagen Alternator. Take a look at my YouTube Channel for my videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMZZ0_0X10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfm5lFc3TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utjk-PT7mFo


-- James

Nice going James, you are one of very few with an open hand. You show
your build, tell how it works, tell how to control it and shows what it does.

You are master electronics man also. Genius

[BroMikey]

James is correct. You control the speed of this motor the same way you control the speed of ANY pulse motor. It is NOT rocket science.
Variables:
1. Voltage
2. Frequency of pulse to motor
3. Width of pulse to motor

With this motor your pulse frequency per rotation is determined by the number of coils and the width of the pulse is determined by the length of the coils (if you want to get the most torque out of the machine you can't mess with this), so you can only adjust voltage. At higher speeds the pulse width is shorter. That makes it simple. Under load you increase the voltage to get the same rpm as unloaded, and/or you increase or lower voltage to increase or lower speed.

IMPROVEMENTS on the physical build of this motor while holding TRUE to its defining characteristics come down to two things. How it is wound and how to increase the strength of the magnetic field that will cause rotation. Peter L showed that backing the magnets on the rotor with steel to force the field in a specific direction is ONE way to do it. There are other ways and other physical configurations that are better. I know, because I have BUILT and tested them. They are exactly the same size as previous machines, but produced much more torque. And once THEY were built we experimented with different wiring ideas and got an ADDITIONAL increases in torque. We still have MORE things to test based on things we already KNOW worked on other builds that we can apply here, so are fairly confident we haven't reached the max torque available with our design. Our test machines were all 3D printed rotors and stators so we don't have as high tolerances as you can get with machined parts, but we were able to CLEARLY establish that the gains you achieve from close tolerances between rotor and stator are EXPONENTIAL. So machined builds are necessary to give the MAX performance of this machine. I have ALREADY seen that a 3D printed version has the torque to turn my generator and that's all I really needed to see to be convinced.

I am working with a design of this motor to meet the SPECIFIC needs of a VERY specific application. That is turning my generator. Just as Aaron said.

yes very good post keeps my mind on the subject matter. I have been
thinking about where i am going in terms of tolerance. Here is a quote
on electric motor air gaps. .010" is a standard

The air gap Lg (Fig. 5.100) should be chosen to give the greatest torque per stroke. This approach will, however, tend to make the air gap length small. T. J. E. Miller (1993) recommends that it be about 0.05 percent of the rotor diameter. This tends to produce air gaps in the 0.007- to 0.010-in range for small motors. This can lead to manufacturing problems and increased costs in commercial-type motors because tight tolerances will be required on many parts. Holding a 0.010-in air gap is very feasible in most manufacturing situations and is a good initial selection. Small air gaps increase torque but also increase audible noise.

[Matthew Jones]

Although there was a whole paper on the subject of the entirety of the b field of a magnet and the force that is included, I cannot find it. This question and answer cover the naming of this motor as a zero force motor.

Question

It doesn't makes sense to me that when charge is moving parallel to magnetic field, force on charge by magnetic field is zero I have done some research and can't find proper answer some people say that answer lies in Lorentz transformations and special relativity so why isn't charge experiencing force?

Answer

A B-field exerts force on a moving charge, in a direction perpendicular to the B field. If the B field and the velocity of the charge are in the same direction, then there is no way to distinguish any single direction of the resulting force (there's a 360 degree spread of perpendicular directions). So, the only force vector that has no direction must be the correct answer (i.e. zero force).

A B-field exerts force on a moving charge, in a direction perpendicular to the motion of the charge. By similar reasonong to above, this also means the force must be zero when B and the velocity of the charge are parallel.

"Resulting forces is the key word"

If you close 4 electromagnetic coils into a loop or a gapped loop all force exerted from the poles is neutralized. Since the poles cancel each other there is no Lorentz force exerted. IE "Zero Force" Lorentz force being the force calculated when push or pull occurs in a magnetic Pole.

Just because Lorentz force is canceled does not mean that all flux from the coil is neutralized. When the permanent magnet of the motor is perpendicular the wire in the coil 50% of it flux is opposed to the flux generated in the wire and the B Feild. This is the portion of the permanent magnet that drives the zero force motor.

Howard Johnson extensively researched this reaction in permanent magnets for continues rotary motion.

Matt

[Aaron]

origin of the motor

Although there was a whole paper on the subject of the entirety of the b field of a magnet and the force that is included, I cannot find it. This question and answer cover the naming of this motor as a zero force motor.

Question


Answer

"Resulting forces is the key word"

If you close 4 electromagnetic coils into a loop or a gapped loop all force exerted from the poles is neutralized. Since the poles cancel each other there is no Lorentz force exerted. IE "Zero Force" Lorentz force being the force calculated when push or pull occurs in a magnetic Pole.

Just because Lorentz force is canceled does not mean that all flux from the coil is neutralized. When the permanent magnet of the motor is perpendicular the wire in the coil 50% of it flux is opposed to the flux generated in the wire and the B Feild. This is the portion of the permanent magnet that drives the zero force motor.

Howard Johnson extensively researched this reaction in permanent magnets for continues rotary motion.

Matt

I believe Floyd Sweet wrote a paper on that topic. John was also not always consistent with his own definitions even though he knew what he meant. If you asked him about the zero force reference, he would point to the center of a magnet. And the Earth's degree of tilt relative to the sun was important to him and is why in the ZFM diagrams and other coil diagrams he always draws that diagonal line through the Bloch Wall.

For anyone interested, this is where I tried to get some discussion going about John's magnetic model since I have all his old lab notes on the subject that were never released. John Bedini's Magnetic Model They'll all be published in due time.

The origin of this Neutral Line motor was around the same time as his Space Flux Motor (the one in the glass case) and appears to be all pre-Ron Cole time.

[BroMikey]

he would point to the center of a magnet. And the Earth's degree of tilt relative to the sun was important to him and is why in the ZFM diagrams and other coil diagrams he always draws that diagonal line through the Bloch Wall.

Good stuff Aaron I often wondered why John always drew his zero
line crooked in the center of the magnet. I would look at that sometimes
and try to see if the line was allowing more room on the north or the
south and it did, then the next time it looked like there was more toward
the south magnet.

I just din't get that. I heard john say if it was day or night made a difference.

[Aaron]

23 degrees

Good stuff Aaron I often wondered why John always drew his zero
line crooked in the center of the magnet. I would look at that sometimes
and try to see if the line was allowing more room on the north or the
south and it did, then the next time it looked like there was more toward
the south magnet.

I just din't get that. I heard john say if it was day or night made a difference.

On an 8 magnet SG, you may have heard him always reference the 23 degree - you can see it written at the bottom of the wheel) - that is an analogy to the Earth's 23.5 degree tilt. And that is significant to the interaction of the "scalar" magnetic fields between the magnets and the coils magnetic field.

[Matthew Jones]

I believe Floyd Sweet wrote a paper on that topic. John was also not always consistent with his own definitions even though he knew what he meant. If you asked him about the zero force reference, he would point to the center of a magnet. And the Earth's degree of tilt relative to the sun was important to him and is why in the ZFM diagrams and other coil diagrams he always draws that diagonal line through the Bloch Wall.

For anyone interested, this is where I tried to get some discussion going about John's magnetic model since I have all his old lab notes on the subject that were never released. John Bedini's Magnetic Model They'll all be published in due time.

The origin of this Neutral Line motor was around the same time as his Space Flux Motor (the one in the glass case) and appears to be all pre-Ron Cole time.

John was the one that told us that originally in the Bedini Monopole 2 group when he first showed that video of the motor with the iron pipe. Maybe 05, 06 time frame. Those groups have long since been shut down. But I remember it well because that was one of the few times I ever got straight answer out of him. He said there is no force exerted on the magnet, the magnet rides the flux lines on the side of the coil. He talked about the switching a little bit, switching direction at the center, then he never talked about the thing again until he started showing the printed models.

Matt

[BroMikey]

One:
If you use the ZFM to get a flywheel turning at high speed, even if that that takes a LONG time because of lack of torque, eventually, because of the high speed of the flywheel, you will have enough torque to engage a lenz free generator.

Two:
Other configurations of the ZFM are capable of MUCH more torque than the ones that have been shown in public. Don't assume that all the work that has been done with this particular motor has already been disclosed, because it hasn't. Build it, see what it will do, and then think about how to make it BETTER so it will have MORE torque. My solutions may not be the BEST ones, and people need to do SOMETHING on their own. But KEEP the air core coils because they are the heart of this machine.

Three:
ANY motor that pulses will have a collapsing coil that acts as a generator. When run on a 3 battery system at the proper frequency it will charge the third battery at a rate GREATER than the discharge of the primary batteries, something few motors will do. Because of the HIGH RPM at which this motor runs, it EASILY achieves the necessary frequency. Build it, run it, put a scope on the charge battery, and THEN tell me it is not worth anything.

All good input gentlemen, John Bedini did us all a favor by lighting
our way, that was his best under the circumstances.

Looking around i see machine materials. Tolerances could helped by
using curved rotor magnets. I'm thinking machining and prices.

DOUBLE ROTOR LOOKS GOOD, HEY?



https://www.apexmagnets.com/54mm-x-46mm-x-20mm-motor-magnets?fee=5&fep=168&gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0 ccN1EhXNh6tX66kQ9hC5eENT9L-wjOmtCOnHFqijz_iD5UY_NVZwiJuxoCymoQAvD_BwE

[wayne.ct]

Inconsistencies regarding Bedini video

Bedini notes that current drops to "zero" when iron core in introduced into the coil. He says the rotor speed increases while at the same time the current input declines. Usually when you introduce iron in a coil you increase losses in the system and you would expect the rotor speed to decrease. Therefore you have a system that appears to have an anomalous behavior. Two things to notice. First, the load is very light. The only load is the bearings for the rotor and air friction. Second, we don't know all the physical characteristics of the coil with and without the iron core. Usually you would expect the iron core in increase the inductance of a coil lower the resonant frequency. The physical characteristics are not obvious but there is the obvious increase in the rotational speed to the rotor. Therefore it appears the resonant frequency is actually INCREASING when the iron core is introduced. I was hoping to find more construction details to make this more evident. If these are available online, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

[BroMikey]

ZERO TOLERANCE

[yaro1776]

ZFM Firing

I concur with Matt and Turion on the firing position just past the center of the coil. Various experiments over the past 6 months verify this over and over again. By the way it appears that the angle beyond the midpoint of the coil is about 20 degrees

Matt's explanation of the B field is dead on. Initially I was somewhat stumped as to why the magnet would blow right past the coil pole end that has the opposite polarity. Again repeated experiments verified this. The Neo magnets are definitely in surfing mode.

From the length of coil on time experiments (25 to 90 degrees) the greater duration dictates the amount of kick you obtain. The best results (speed and torque) obtained were in the 65 to 80 degree range of on time.

The air gap on the YZFM is about 0.375" at the closest approach with 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's on the current Iron rotor. The greatest speed was obtained 6 months ago with an Aluminum rotor with a slightly greater air gap and 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's at 36 volts.

My next move, one that is already in motion, is machining new Aluminum rotors. Simple design that is easily modified for differing Neo lengths and thicknesses. In this instance I am progressively tightening the air gap to 0.180" and later perhaps even more as the results dictate. Happy to share the rotor print. As a note the magnetic Iron bar stock is very expensive so Aluminum is useful for the prototyping mode.

Following James McD's lead I will test one rotor with a rectangular 1-1/2"Lx1"Wx1/2"T at this tighter gap. Expect to be on track with this end of the month or early next.

I will use the Loctite structural adhesive for the Neo's along with the Fiberglass shipping tape,

Thanks for all the sharing and information - just reinforces my initiative,
Yaro

[BroMikey]

I concur with Matt and Turion on the firing position just past the center of the coil. Various experiments over the past 6 months verify this over and over again. By the way it appears that the angle beyond the midpoint of the coil is about 20 degrees

Matt's explanation of the B field is dead on. Initially I was somewhat stumped as to why the magnet would blow right past the coil pole end that has the opposite polarity. Again repeated experiments verified this. The Neo magnets are definitely in surfing mode.

From the length of coil on time experiments (25 to 90 degrees) the greater duration dictates the amount of kick you obtain. The best results (speed and torque) obtained were in the 65 to 80 degree range of on time.

The air gap on the YZFM is about 0.375" at the closest approach with 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's on the current Iron rotor. The greatest speed was obtained 6 months ago with an Aluminum rotor with a slightly greater air gap and 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's at 36 volts.

My next move, one that is already in motion, is machining new Aluminum rotors. Simple design that is easily modified for differing Neo lengths and thicknesses. In this instance I am progressively tightening the air gap to 0.180" and later perhaps even more as the results dictate. Happy to share the rotor print. As a note the magnetic Iron bar stock is very expensive so Aluminum is useful for the prototyping mode.

Following James McD's lead I will test one rotor with a rectangular 1-1/2"Lx1"Wx1/2"T at this tighter gap. Expect to be on track with this end of the month or early next.

I will use the Loctite structural adhesive for the Neo's along with the Fiberglass shipping tape,

Thanks for all the sharing and information - just reinforces my initiative,
Yaro

Thanks Yaro, excellent data, it is very important that we share, which
means posting specific hardware designs as well as theological
references. posting your air gap of 3/8" is great to hear about.

On rotor machining so magnets don't fall out, personally I will use a
hole saw to set the magnets. For instance my design would be a plastic
rotor (HT composite) with 1 1/2" holes cut into it. If the magnets were
3/4" thick or high I would use a rotor 1/2" thick to set magnets into.

Then place 5 circular sheets of very thin shielding metal on the back in
a laminate formation to reflect all stray lines of force in the right direction.

On the B-field talking points, I do not understand yet.

[James McDonald]

Bedini notes that current drops to "zero" when iron core in introduced into the coil. He says the rotor speed increases while at the same time the current input declines. Usually when you introduce iron in a coil you increase losses in the system and you would expect the rotor speed to decrease. Therefore you have a system that appears to have an anomalous behavior. Two things to notice. First, the load is very light. The only load is the bearings for the rotor and air friction. Second, we don't know all the physical characteristics of the coil with and without the iron core. Usually you would expect the iron core in increase the inductance of a coil lower the resonant frequency. The physical characteristics are not obvious but there is the obvious increase in the rotational speed to the rotor. Therefore it appears the resonant frequency is actually INCREASING when the iron core is introduced. I was hoping to find more construction details to make this more evident. If these are available online, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

Hi Wayne --

The Bedini ZFM air coil is wrapped on a cut out 4 inch PVC pipe. The PVC pipe is cut down to 0.75 inches for the magnet wire to be wrapped onto. The DC resistance of each coil is 2.5 ohms. That resistance includes the meter leads. The magnet wire size that was used is 20 gauge. Each coil is wrapped bi-filar meaning two wires wrapped at the same time. The calculated resistance of each 100 foot length of magnet wire is 1.015 ohms. Each side of the coil is series together making the calculated DC resistance being 2.030 ohms. Depending on your meter and test leads you will see 0.5 to 1 ohm of lead resistance. The coils are configured in a Toroid form and then both sides are series together making the calculated total DC resistance of the coil being 4.060 ohms. The Bedini-Cole circuit is based on Audio Transistors and they have no problem driving 4 ohm speakers. See the attached picture of my finished coils. I will tell you I made my coils bigger than the original Bedini ZFM. I cut the inside wrap form to 1 inch due to my bigger gauge wire I used which was 18 gauge. I used 450 foot of 18 gauge wire on each side. My coil is one continuous magnet wire with a calculated DC resistance on each side of the coil being 2.873 ohms. So my coil is different from the original Bedini. The magnet wire bundle is bigger therefore I had to use bigger Neo magnets to induce the magnetic field into every wire wrapped on the coil form. My magnets are pretty much the same size as the SSG magnets but are N52 Neos with a 76 pound pull force. If you want all the information in a bundle you need to get the ZFM video from Aaron's web site. This video and book has all the collected information and the 2017 conference video.

-- James

[bistander]

B-field

...
Then place 5 circular sheets of very thin shielding metal on the back in
a laminate formation to reflect all stray lines of force in the right direction.

On the B-field talking points, I do not understand yet.

I am not aware of any material which can reflect magnetic lines of force or B-field. Also, the iron shielding cup shown in your diagram will shunt the magnet reducing or possibly eliminating the external field, ie render the magnet ineffective.