Continued Tests of the 3 Battery System

[Matthew Jones]

Couple of years ago I posted this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl62ro6M3VE

Its Dated on You tube and was posted on the 3bgs thread. Now since then I have built several others with the MY1016 and I can pretty much say for sure what your going to see the return effect if you look, I design and built it that way, but as far improving with that case and that rotor its not going to happen. I know it for a fact. Controllers are not going to effect it other than maybe shifting what is already their.

The return effect is caused from compression of the power stored in the coil. Since coil saturates low in the curve the small amount of power in the coil can be manipulated when the coil and the magnet interact at certain speeds. You flip the polarity of the current you just put in, with pressure. This possible in all kinds of situation but speed is the reason it happens. It works the same as pushing a weak and strong magnet together. The weak magnet will subside to the stronger, but coils are reset by the control circuit.
It is conceivably possible to build a motor that not only is efficient in its rotation but returns 100% percent of the used power back to source. The delima comes from the source that is used to power the motor. Power management can be employed but that costs too.

Most of ya'll have a long way to go before you achieve anything that going to stand out from the rest of the doorbell ringers and spikey things. But let me give ya'll a little advice. 2 ways to prove anything, you can measure, or you can manipulate it. If either one work out the effect your looking at is real. Then you just make it work better.

Hope you find something that works. I have and I am going to get back to it.

Matt

[RAMSET]

playing catch up

Dave
both Carroll and myself are playing Catch up here with many months of
time lost due to recent events in our lives
and the brutal cold snap here had me fetchin and ketchin to make sure
none of the outside machinery was below par for the 20 below wind chill
we have been having these last few nights.

and the house too...the ground gets hard real fast !!!

will touch base tomorrow ,I know the weekend is extra special time for you.

all good here with the Build plan ,just squeezing in the time between Life...

much gratitude

Chet K
PS
just a comment which was mentioned but some here may have missed it due too many many postings here....
the Vids presented By Luc in this thread are unlisted and not on his public channel....
some were making comments about low views ????

once this replication is done to the prescribed method ,those vids will be put on the public channel [which does not allow advertising]!
along with a nice tutorial !!

[bistander]

About the same results

In comparing the 3BS with the motor running off three batteries in parallel, the motor on one system may be running faster or slower than the motor on the other system at different times during the test, so the number of HOURS the motor ran or even the number of hours the system ran is pretty much a ridiculous comparison. Really the ONLY thing that matters was how much power (Watt hours) was available to run the motor. To see this you need only look at the LAST video of the test for each system.

In the standard configuration the motor consumed 69 watt hours of energy. Whether it ran fast or slow, THAT was how many watt hours of energy were available to the motor. 69 watt hours.

If you look at how many watt-hours of energy went through the motor on the 3BS system, or how many watt hours were AVAILABLE to the motor, there were 135 watt hours.

When you compare 135watt hours going through the motor to 69 watt hours going through the motor, which would YOU say under the exact same conditions at the exact same speed would make the motor run longer, and by how much?

How much came out of batteries one and two is unimportant. How much was used charging battery there is unimportant. All that matters is what was available and what was USED by the motor

{Note: the member who posted this has deleted his post so out of respect I have deleted reference to that member. I actually like several points he makes and wish to leave the main body here for possible discussion.}

Hi,

69 Wh was from a test using one fully charged battery.
135Wh was from a test using two fully charged batteries.

So a fair comparison would be 138Wh to 135Wh. 2 * 69Wh = 138Wh.

Regards,

bi

[Satyam108]

Nice Alliteration!

Matt’s Magnificent Motor Modification Memorialized by Me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faZI...7WsknDG4439vV3

I wish auto captions were turned on.

[RAMSET]

better yet

Dave had offered to send the water pump he had used for testing [if he can find it]
also
just a note to readers here
things are moving along ,
Luc Did have to spend time sending 25 donated human powered bicycle generators off to Puerto Rico to help with the dire situation there .

and there are many other things to do at his Lab to get caught up.
Lots on the table ATM

others are helping behind the scenes with this project to get the proper test done exactly as required to show the effect which has been shared here.
and there will be a live stream of the entire thing once it gets to the Lab

this will take a bit of time as all are volunteering their time and resources [both in limited supply these days]

respectfully
Chet k

[gotoluc]

No worries.

haven't been on here since my last post. I have caught up, and in doing so remembered something you posted on the other thread. You mentioned the motor should be spinning at the same speed for a fair comparison - I'm paraphrasing of course because I can no longer find that thread... No need to go back on this but looking forward. I thought you had a valid request. I think this is why Dave drove a water pump and measured work done - water moved...

Yes, THEminoly I did write that somewhere. It would be a better comparison to measure the output work of a motor under load then a motor freewheeling doing nothing. However, even though in both test scenario the motor was not under load, the motors current draw seem to average to the same.
Since the results of both test scenarios came to the same results as far as motor run time then we have not proven a gain which was the whole point of the tests.
If someone can send me a small 12vdc water pump that uses no more then 0.25 Amps while pumping I would be prepared to redo the tests.

Regards

Luc

[THEminoly]

Sorry about coming down on you over the Bedini stuff.
I've been in this for 10 years and at first wanted to believe all the stuff he was teaching. However, never once have I seen a gain and never have I seen proof of gain provided by someone else to date, let alone the claim of batteries charging with less power if you use pulses compared to DC.
So when someone starts talking the Bedini stuff I clamp down right away and ask for proof.
There's a lot more to it then I can publicly share but I can't do it at this forum.



I agree and the test is running at this time. Followups to come

Kind regards

Luc

No worries.

haven't been on here since my last post. I have caught up, and in doing so remembered something you posted on the other thread. You mentioned the motor should be spinning at the same speed for a fair comparison - I'm paraphrasing of course because I can no longer find that thread... No need to go back on this but looking forward. I thought you had a valid request. I think this is why Dave drove a water pump and measured work done - water moved...

[Matthew Jones]

FWIW - Redrew Desa's Schematic

His was a boost converter.

Matt

[Satyam108]

Desa 10-20-16 Schematic Redrawn

FWIW - Redrew Desa's Schematic

[Satyam108]

Desa Used a Circuit Breaker?

Matt wrote:
Just wanted to add a NOTE: You may want to add a load between BATT 2 and 3 before starting the load on the converter. Make sure to Check one converter first before wiring them all up. Some can be touchy, you wouldn't burn everything on the first shot, if thats going to happen. A lot of them have safety features to shut them down before overload. Check your data sheet.

Looks like a circuit breaker in Series battery B+ on Desa's setup?

[gotoluc]

@Luc

I have posted some pictures of DESA and SAW2 first connections
and this is the one I followed, despite the twisting i mean no disrespect
here and will delete any and all pictures when you give the word.

I am only trying to help. These are the words written in the thread
TURION directed us to read. The first step was to extend runtimes
and the single boost converter does that, I know because i ran
it.

The next step as shown in Matt's post here is get extended runtimes
measured in days, over a month by using the second boost module on
the charge battery and send it back to the run set.

There are no mysteries here, not rocket science. Several have verified
this so depending on what you are after you can make your choice.

Door number one is a single booster that ups the voltage to the motor
and sends energy back to the run batteries. According to the first
basic steps.

I wish no Ill will toward any members so please let me know if you
would rather and I will not post here again.

Dear BroMikey

I'm not going to tell you to no longer post in this topic.
I would rather you come to that decision on your own.
But lets consider who has the most experimental experience in this discussion.
I would say it's Matt, Dave and Carroll... would you not agree?

Now both Matt and Carroll have put you on their Ignore List and their participation is most important.
You want to know what I would do if I was in your shoes
I would sit back (much easier) and just watch the topic and let it play itself out.
But if someone asks you for help or an explanation then that would be the time to step in.
That's what I would do

Kind regards

Luc

[ricards]

..
But in line with your previous tests you could go with something like this:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...017-ND/4878856

This is rated for the power range you need for your c/20 rate and can handle 2k uf capacitance on its output. That give you a lot of options for load. You have the capacitance loading MAX on any of these things before settle on one. I like Murata, TDK, Recom and Vicor. The others are junk.

With one of those you can do a really good test that will either be a COP of 1 or over or a COP 1 and under.

You put the input converter to load on the the 3 battery system. Put a C/20 rate load on the converter. Then you load battery 3 at the same rate to keep batt3 from charging. Since you know how long it takes to discharge and charge your batteries you should be able to look at the level and see, either you are fully discharged and this setup is junk or you are half way discharged and you just did 2x worth of work over a given time.

That test will keep you from going broke looking for the magic. Or you can just play with DC to DC.

If your worried about the motor thats the next best thing.

Matt

can you run an isolated boost converter instead?.. say 36v, combine it together to double the amps and charge the series batteries while running one of those 12v output converters at the 36v-24v side...

I've tried moving the energy upward to series batteries electrically, but no gain. haven't tried this way though (all electrical energy go down.. all magnetism generating new electrical energy to refill the source..).
anyway thanks for bringing up something without motors.

[Satyam108]

Nah - that's a C clamp

If you blow Dess’s scope shot up, you can see that it is across the motor. We could pm him and see if he responds.

tee hee



sorry - had to do it Dave

Honestly I don't see a scope probe. There are a couple of cables, etc. in Desa's photos that go out of frame and make me scratch my head.

[BroMikey]

Power Supply Repairs

Good picture of the commutator and here are the scope shots
before and after the supply has been fixed. This motor is a 3 strand.
Just take your time, we are not going anywhere. Last weeks 82 hours
has wiped me out. That is 2 work weeks, excuse me.


http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...2comscope1.jpg



http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...2comscope2.jpg



http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3batterygen/mm3strand.jpg

[QUOTE
[/QUOTE]



This is the boost converter setting on Matt's table and the one promoted
at that time. probably not the right one for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-DC-DC-Boost-Converter-10-32V-to-12-35V-6A-Step-Up-Voltage-Charger-Power/182864933829?hash=item2a939973c5:g:nCoAAOSwFSxZ9ut o

Here is the one I use, this one can be connected for isolated operation.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-Digital-Control-Constant-Voltage-Constant-Current-DC-Boost-Converter-Module/322850658561?epid=854233823&hash=item4b2b661901:g: me4AAOSwB3BZ8uJb


As you can clearly see here this unit is both an isolated and can
be connected with a common ground. I just happened to try it this way
the first run. As we go back and read up in the thread where Desa
did a build we find multiple ways tested.

The diagram on the ground shows an externally connected ground path
and when i connected it without the external ground tied together it
would no work so this verifies the isolation part.

Sometimes you can tell when a converter is isolated by the way
each front and back section of the circuit has it's own toroid
because the tiny transformer is what does the boost. Some of
these higher efficiency units are both buck and boost all in
one package. This marks the later tech and the higher rating
where losses are minimized.

Luc is searching for the best way and I have no idea what that is. I
also have another 97 percent booster converter on the way so I will
be learning new ways of making these connections. In another post
last year the guys were using 2 boost converters.

I am not sure if a connect diagram was ever offered but it was talked
about and maybe deleted. I'll go look for Luc to
see if i can find that one.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...vice-image-jpg

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...vice-image-jpg

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...vice-image-jpg


Here is the Post I was thinking about

This is starting on page 49 and post 1463 of the
BASIC FREE ENERGY DEVICE

This was a long time ago and much testing to refine for max probably
makes this circuit obsolete?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I think instead of burning that extra power I would move it back upstairs. You get the benefits of the potential system and you get more control over the potential. Ideally you might be able to charge all the batteries up to 14-15 volt and everything in the system would become more efficient while delivering the ability to do more work.

Matt
Matt, would the best way to "move it back upstairs" be to put another boost module in parallel with battery 3 in place of the resistor somehow?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Matt, would the best way to "move it back upstairs" be to put another boost module in parallel with battery 3 in place of the resistor somehow?

Ya thats how I ran one 15 days without loosing any power.

You just hook the boost module to the 3rd battery and set it to run at a slightly higher voltage than the 2 serial batteries. You can put a current meter between the boost and serial batteries and see exactly how much current your sending back upstairs, so you can match it to the load or slightly less. The system should stay just as stable.

I'll post a diagram soon to better explain. I think with an efficient boost converter you can actually charge things up a bit.

Matt



---------------------------------------------------------------

[gotoluc]

If you blow Dess’s scope shot up, you can see that it is across the motor. We could pm him and see if he responds.

Dave, it would be great if you could get in contact with desa to see if he would be willing to answer some questions.
Would also be great to know if he still has the device or if he made any other improvements.

Thanks for your help

Luc