Continued Tests of the 3 Battery System

[citfta]

Luc,

If you get the motor back together and it still overheats and draws too much current I would strongly then suspect a shorted winding. Of course a turn or two shorted out will not show up with an ohmmeter. As far as I know the only way to test for a shorted turn on an armature is to use a growler. It has been so long since I used one I don't remember the exact procedure for doing that but most likely if you can get access to one there should be some instructions or perhaps someone who will know how to do that. Or maybe you already know how. I am also not too sure if a growler would even properly test a rewound motor like that but I think it will.

I thought I had ground off the tab so that the end bell could be rotated on that motor but it may have been on another one I was experimenting with. Hopefully Matt's video will be some help to you. I am quite sure that I have run that motor in the past for several hours at a time with no problems and no overheating so something has changed. Maybe it was only the carbon build up you found. I hope so. Looking forward to seeing it run properly again.

Sorry for the slow response. It has been a very busy day.

Carroll

[THEminoly]

Anyone that wants to claim OU or a gain using a Bedini SSG please present your test data (in another topic) for evaluation as I'm doing here.
I've never seen any proof of gain in my tests in the past or any reliable documented proof by any others to this date.
I'm aware of all the claims that keep coming back up in free energy forum like a king of perpetual folklore by many who don't even build and or know how to do correct power tests.
Prove the talk and start your own topic to present test results. Let us know once that's done or don't bring up non factual information again. We have enough of that to deal with at this time.

Kind regards

Luc

Thought you had an open mind, I mentioned this only to support you and your method of pulsing the coil/motor, but the mere mention of Bedini sent your mind someplace else just as it did on the other forum



Now we're up to 85.23 hours, all the more reason to run the direct load on those batteries, just for the sake of curiosity you took it that far, why not. I think the next runs will be better though so it may not matter anyway.

Dave, am I wrong, do you see the missing component. Perhaps it's something that I alone add to my system...

[BroMikey]

Bro Mikey,
I would ask that you go back and look at the beginning and end times of every "Run" Luc did. The first run begins at 3:00 in the afternoon (post #7) and ends at about 8:56 AM the NEXT DAY (post #11, which is the FIRST battery rotation.) You have to look at the FIRST video to get the beginning time and the SECOND video to get the end time. This is 17 hours and 56 minutes of run time on the "First" run which I don't believe you accurately account for. The total number of hours I have, based on my spread sheet, is over 82 hours. Now I wouldn't stake my life on those numbers, and if I get some time today I will go back through them. Since they are all taken straight out of the videos, that is fairly easy to do. But you are only showing 57.5 hours and 68 as break even according to YOUR calculations. You also indicate the first day's test was 9 hours long. Something is out of whack. It may be me, and I will check my numbers, but here is what I have

3:00 PM to 8:56 AM 17.56
8:56 AM to 12:28 PM 15.32
8:37 AM to 12:17 AM 15:40
9:15 AM to 1:15 AM 16:00
9:00 AM to 2:06 AM 17:06
The last morning I do not have here. I think was about an hour. Haven't gone back and looked to make sure. I was looking at watt hours and didn't write down how long the test ran.

Dave

First of all Dave I want to thank you, Matt and Carrol for all of your hard
work over the years. I don't want to leave the impression of ingratitude
by these some what rather abrasive sounding remarks I let loose
of on the thread here.

You guys should know by now I am all about the drama. I knew already
that the earlier pdf was not the end but we need to remember the many
thousands who only see that PDF, they build it and they think it is the same
as the later versions where 3 strands of #23 are used which dramatically
lowers the resistance.

Next Dave i will say this to you personally, no one has cared for my desire
to learn extra energy circuits than you. This makes you our captain and
we already know who the general is as stated by you.

Don't misunderstand some of my posts where I let on like some toddler/
beginner who doesn't know how to operate an ohm meter, I am doing
that to air out my earlier frustrations that 1000's have right now.

Grandpa was an electronics wiz a left over warrior who was from Finland.
These people are smart. I started at age 8 years watching him build and
never lost interest to date. I have spent years in the library's around the
USA during my travels where i lived in SC,NV,CA,TX,MI,FL I copied circuit
diagrams. This was well before the internet.

I have been submersed in looking at circuits so simple tasks like winding
a motor is easy to understand those.

When I went back to the beginning of the thread I saw blank pages and
still those blank pages are making me wonder what they are. I will go back
again and try to see how many hours I can count up for the first day.

All of you guys are great people so this is a good thing to me. Luc wants
to see the extra and I can't blame him, it is time to build something we
can make a little money with so the wheels of progress can get this
entry. It will be like an arrow stuck where it can't be pulled out and the
people will have to deal with it.

It is high time to get to the bottom of this stuff. I will always be as
nice of a guy as you have all witnessed but we can all be pushed over
the brink.

Luc has shown us that he is desperate to find a real operating, practical
circuit. We are having our day in court so to speak. If I knew just what
to offer in video form I would but my generator section has not been
fully populated with 24 strand coils yet.

Luc is our Drill Sargent who is expecting those who have some spit and
polish to come foreword and show what their abilities have to offer.

It's put up time. I think of it as a small test.and I have nothing.

[gotoluc]

11/05/17 4pm Start of part 2 Testing the single battery Motor Run Time

Link to video: https://youtu.be/Han5WQDwB18

[gotoluc]

.4 ohms is right on the money. Often the back/front plate need to be turned. They have a notch on them sometimes that stops this and that notch has to go or the tab that fits into it. As you face the shaft the back and front plate need to turn fully clockwise until the screw hits the magnet. Usually this results in higher RPM. The width of the magnet sometimes varies and this limit your overall results.

The intent was to have motor that bucked the voltage closer to the 12 volt bottom battery. I also wanted higher rpms with longer on time on the coils.

Voltage controls the speed of the motor. But the current on Free running motor should not go up within reason. Mine start to use more current at around 24 volt. The difference in mine is about .1 amp between 12 volt and 24 volt.

The higher Rpms were needed for the generator.

As you showed there is clear off time in the commutator, Pulse motor, even though the scope is fooled.

I am putting everything together to film and I'll show you what I can this evening after the upload and all that.

Matt

Thanks Matt for confirming the DC coil resistance is perfect and for the rest of the details.
I'll cut the tab and try to rotate as you suggest.

Regards

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

The DATASHEET BM is talking about is an earlier version, not done by me. .4 ohms is correct.

[gotoluc]

Oh OK so you have found a source of free energy

Never wrote or said that. Why would you write this

and removing energy from the system won't cost anything?

Look at the 2 video demos attached. This will answer your question.

I was under the impression you had not seen anything that developed a COP over 1 condition, or did you say that?

Yes, I wrote that and still true to date. Why do you ask

I don't have even one flyback converter on my shelf that puts out more energy than takes in, no matter how it reshapes it, no matter how you source the power.

That makes two of us. What's the point of this statement

You might be on to something.

Ya think so


To everyone

The 2 video demos below provide power measurements of my version of an off the shelf pulse motor.
For accurate power calculations the motor coil discharge goes to a separate capacitor and load resistor. However, it could be used to charge many small batteries in series but it needs to be isolated from the circuit like in a Bedini ssg circuit or else you get a short circuit if you try to connect it back to the source battery and or charge battery.
A separate Isolation circuit could be built to achieve this if need be.

Part 1 video: https://youtu.be/EXJUhUQvgOI

Part 2 video: https://youtu.be/QVyWKAbbW28

Regards

Luc

[bistander]

...

All those who are asking why I have not done the 2nd part of the test should read BroMikey's post: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post305909
Even he has figured out form all the data collected that it will prove no gain.
If you still think the data is wrong I can test one battery connected to the motor and see how many hours it will run.
Let me know if you still need that kind of proof and I'll do the test just to satisfy you.
...
Luc

Hi Luc,

I don't think any of the data is wrong. But I do think we need a baseline for the 3 battery test you did otherwise we don't really know whether there was/is an advantage in that type of system. BM's analysis shows maybe 15%+/- gain. Worth running a baseline to verify. Thanks for your efforts. I appreciate a scientific look at this system.

Regards,

bi

[RAMSET]

was never the plan

Gents
since Day one an exact replication [or as close as possible ]
has ALWAYS been on the table.

not doing that would be a complete waste of time ! [in the vetting process]

as well as Control experiments for the batteries .[a moving target it seems]

very hard for one fellow to do everything by himself ,
also been very hard to get all info and components to Luc for these tests.


Carroll has been unbelievably burdened with his life for the last year or so
and I have only recently been able to help with behind the scenes assistance for Luc.[almost a year of eye surgeries and still more to go]

To Add.. Dave has been amazingly helpful all the long, he is quick to answer questions and offer all manner of support.

to be absolutely clear again
an exact replication has been on the table since day one [of Luc's recent effort here]
and to be completely clear ,Control experiments are mandatory for proper testing and have also been on the table since day one.

Luc has worked on tons of Lab projects ,years ago he was chained to a Coil Winding Bench at Ottawa university as an assistant to Thane Heinz .

he has been thru the fire and no rookie to proper measurements
plus he has a team of physicists EE's and very skilled builders at his disposal
24/7 365 [he hardly ever asks for help ]
and a very nice Lab at his fingertips where he is basically a volunteer
to this community.



I could write a book on the things he has done for this world No charge
gone to third world countries to help people in need , for huge blocks of time in his life.

he is truly a special fellow.

its just that we only have one Luc here working on this.

not trying to stifle contributions just to diminish assumptions.

and also not looking to fill this topic with all manner of conversations or unnecessary noise
the fellows who did all the original work here are assisting as much as they can.
its going to take some time.

respectfully
Chet K

[bistander]

Baseline

...

Also, did I miss something in this thread, was the motor tested on 2 charged batteries to see how long they would last in real life? I saw some calculations based on numbers and letters that are written on the battery but no test to see if they would actually last that long...
...

I agree. Luc, please run what I referred to as a baseline test. I thought that was the plan. That would be with battery A1 or B2 and the motor at about 0.14A, the same C-rate as the 3 battery test. Note that running the 2 batteries in parallel would be half the C-rate although the same starting stored energy. Your starting tests confirmed the two batteries equal in Wh so a single battery test should suffice and we can just double it for baseline.

Thanks,

bi

[THEminoly]

Here is a demonstration of the gotopulse motor

Link to video: https://youtu.be/p3yVtbZNzW4

BTW, the starting voltage of bat 1 was 12.99v, bat 2 was 12.98v and bat 3 was 12.85v
After the short demo and two hours of rest time bat 1 was 12.99v, bat 2 was 12.98v and bat 3 was 12.90v

I think most appreciate what you are trying to do here and are definitely going out of your way to try and follow up with what started out as a miscommunication.

Two things:

1. In vid it is stated the chopping effect to the "off the shelf" motor is doing the same thing as a "pulse motor". What is a "pulse motor" certainly not an SSG. I just want to make that clear. As JB's SSG also has very specific timing of the pulse which allows it to take advantage of the passing magnet to increase it's output. This setup does not take advantage of that. I think this may be what Matt is doing when he mentioned adjusting the timing via the back plate?

2. There is a missing part that is integral to the circuit. I think Dave listed it in the locked thread, can't find that thread anymore.

This being said, I don't think an SSG is integral to getting some results. I have used an off the shelf DC water pump, pulsed with an arduino triggering an SS SSG circuit that pulse powered the pump and did get OU results using Lithium ion batteries. I had to drop the pulses to thousandths of a second in order to get it to work. I filmed the beginning and end just as a test run but I have not got around to doing a clean test all the way through yet, stuff keeps coming up that prevents me.

Also, did I miss something in this thread, was the motor tested on 2 charged batteries to see how long they would last in real life? I saw some calculations based on numbers and letters that are written on the battery but no test to see if they would actually last that long...

Again, a simple add on but very integral part is missing from the ckt in all of these videos.

[gotoluc]

Here are the results of Carroll's Matt Motor after cleaning

Link to video: https://youtu.be/haUgvraDc4M

Can someone confirm if the coil resistance should be 0.4 Ohms

Regards

Luc

[gotoluc]

The below is Carroll's Matt Motor disassembled for inspection

Link to video: https://youtu.be/gub7kcXrSMw

Regards

Luc

[gotoluc]

The below video is the Wh test results of recharging the new battery.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/vsUIF1F9aLo

250 Wh consumed to recharge the 221 Wh load test = 88% recharge rate efficiency

Regards

Luc

[citfta]

Hi Luc and the rest.

Luc, I have no problem with you taking the motor apart to see what is going on. I suspect something has happened to it. I have not actually used it for about a year or more. Before I packed it for shipping, I ran it for only a minute or so to make sure it still ran. It seemed to be ok at that time.

If you want to rewind a motor feel free to use that one as it will be much easier to rewind it than to start with a stock motor. Just for the record I have in the past run that motor for hours with a load on it and it only got warm. It is possible I may have damaged it is some way and not realized it with some of my last tests. I would suspect some shorted turns if it is using a lot of current and running hot. Also when you are done you are welcome to keep that motor. No need to send it back. I have several more I can rewind if I need to. I am currently pursuing a different avenue of research and don't need that motor.

As Chet said I have very limited time and access to the forums. But I will check back when I can.

Carroll