Continued Tests of the 3 Battery System

[bistander]

About the same results

In comparing the 3BS with the motor running off three batteries in parallel, the motor on one system may be running faster or slower than the motor on the other system at different times during the test, so the number of HOURS the motor ran or even the number of hours the system ran is pretty much a ridiculous comparison. Really the ONLY thing that matters was how much power (Watt hours) was available to run the motor. To see this you need only look at the LAST video of the test for each system.

In the standard configuration the motor consumed 69 watt hours of energy. Whether it ran fast or slow, THAT was how many watt hours of energy were available to the motor. 69 watt hours.

If you look at how many watt-hours of energy went through the motor on the 3BS system, or how many watt hours were AVAILABLE to the motor, there were 135 watt hours.

When you compare 135watt hours going through the motor to 69 watt hours going through the motor, which would YOU say under the exact same conditions at the exact same speed would make the motor run longer, and by how much?

How much came out of batteries one and two is unimportant. How much was used charging battery there is unimportant. All that matters is what was available and what was USED by the motor

{Note: the member who posted this has deleted his post so out of respect I have deleted reference to that member. I actually like several points he makes and wish to leave the main body here for possible discussion.}

Hi,

69 Wh was from a test using one fully charged battery.
135Wh was from a test using two fully charged batteries.

So a fair comparison would be 138Wh to 135Wh. 2 * 69Wh = 138Wh.

Regards,

bi

[RAMSET]

playing catch up

Dave
both Carroll and myself are playing Catch up here with many months of
time lost due to recent events in our lives
and the brutal cold snap here had me fetchin and ketchin to make sure
none of the outside machinery was below par for the 20 below wind chill
we have been having these last few nights.

and the house too...the ground gets hard real fast !!!

will touch base tomorrow ,I know the weekend is extra special time for you.

all good here with the Build plan ,just squeezing in the time between Life...

much gratitude

Chet K
PS
just a comment which was mentioned but some here may have missed it due too many many postings here....
the Vids presented By Luc in this thread are unlisted and not on his public channel....
some were making comments about low views ????

once this replication is done to the prescribed method ,those vids will be put on the public channel [which does not allow advertising]!
along with a nice tutorial !!

[Matthew Jones]

Couple of years ago I posted this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl62ro6M3VE

Its Dated on You tube and was posted on the 3bgs thread. Now since then I have built several others with the MY1016 and I can pretty much say for sure what your going to see the return effect if you look, I design and built it that way, but as far improving with that case and that rotor its not going to happen. I know it for a fact. Controllers are not going to effect it other than maybe shifting what is already their.

The return effect is caused from compression of the power stored in the coil. Since coil saturates low in the curve the small amount of power in the coil can be manipulated when the coil and the magnet interact at certain speeds. You flip the polarity of the current you just put in, with pressure. This possible in all kinds of situation but speed is the reason it happens. It works the same as pushing a weak and strong magnet together. The weak magnet will subside to the stronger, but coils are reset by the control circuit.
It is conceivably possible to build a motor that not only is efficient in its rotation but returns 100% percent of the used power back to source. The delima comes from the source that is used to power the motor. Power management can be employed but that costs too.

Most of ya'll have a long way to go before you achieve anything that going to stand out from the rest of the doorbell ringers and spikey things. But let me give ya'll a little advice. 2 ways to prove anything, you can measure, or you can manipulate it. If either one work out the effect your looking at is real. Then you just make it work better.

Hope you find something that works. I have and I am going to get back to it.

Matt

[Duncan]

Luc I appreciate what you do here and I really don't want to alter your determination to carry out any test sequence you want. Its your thread after all. What I would like you to do is factor in what I try to show you now. I promised to try and repeat the icing when I returned from Budapest-
I might have hidden something in a battery box, just as you were accused of and might have in the motor box !! it would be easy to do, but of course I haven't .
Like you If I wanted to lie and trick folks I could, (I'm sure you could too!)
Its an event I'm trying to show you and so l take a short time in the video/experiment to show you the components,theres only very few.
First a bit of simple ohms law so everyone can see what has caught my attention Its simple so no worries about heavy formula principles or squashed magnetics ? as yet.
My fluke informs me of a better than 10 Meg ohms resistance across the sulphated battery , probably much higher,
assume for a moment I connect a 10 Meg ohm resistance across a perfectly good 12 volt battery what is the maximum current that can flow ? 1.2 micro amps approx - a feeble current !
Add the resistance of the motor itself to the circuit and ponder if it could ever possibly turn,of course not.
In fact with your patience Luc I'll test the premiss for you with the motor, I intend to use to try and ice this battery with another battery. I'm sorry I can't match the equipment you have but I'll do my best


“One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.” NicolaTesla

Now simple ohms law should tell sceptics reading here that unless something special is going to happen in this poor old box of very high resistance crystals there's no way , the motor can possibly turn.
I hope this works for everyone's sake because if it does you folks who are working hard with good intent might begin to start looking in what I think is the right corner of the room so win or lose The experiment, Then the video

Object –
To prove there is credence in the crystal effect and what appears as a negative resistance within a heavily sulphated lead acid battery .

Experiment -
To Repeat David Bowlin's original two battery circuit altering motor size and battery for expected optimal conditions, in order to investigate repeat and prove a condition I have witnessed earlier where a motor self started, self regulated and in the process charged and 'iced' a heavily sulphated battery

Method-
To substitute the measured internal resistance of a sulphated battery with an equivalent 'control' and attempt to run the motor for comparison purposes
Replace the control resistance with the sulphated (battery?) and again attempt to run the motor. Study the action of a motor that shouldn't be able to run and the associated icing effect.

Apparatus –
1 charged serviceable Lead acid Gel cell, power sonic PS12-120-F1
1 very heavily sulphated Lead acid Gel Cell in the state described by text books as 'approaching infinite internal resistance' PBQ -15AH VRLA battery
1 small ,fast ,brushed DC motor,
1 10 Meg ohm resistor (for comparison)
1 Bench DMM calibrated Fluke 37
sundry connecting leads and connectors

The object -
To demonstrate that by injecting a voltage waveform into via a crystal structure of a sulphated battery , (given a high Q factor) great amounts of extraneous energy becomes available. Its hoped to demonstrate previously witnessed icing of the battery posts failing that to show the anomalies to be encountered when using heavily sulphated cells.

Results – The Batterie(s) can be seen to exhibit infinite impedance in either direction. (>10 Meg ohms) The Current Draw across either battery when shorted is zero (as might be expected when an infinite resistance is in circuit)
The introduction of a substitute resistance effectively demonstrates that the test motor will not turn with this resistance in circuit.
Replacing the resistance with either sulphated battery results in the motor turning and the sulphated battery taking and holding a charge. In so much as each sulphated battery is quickly shown to be able to spin the test motor on its own accord.
Reversing the sulphated battery also resulted in the motor turning.
I would like to point out that this reversed condition is where I originally saw 'icing' and the motor simply kept running faster and faster instead of slowing down.

Conclusion – I have not demonstrated icing , however the very quickly changing effects across sulphated cells are clear to see. The effects across an assumed infinite changing impedance are also clear to see along with semi conductor effects in so much as the motor at certain stages will only turn in one direction. There are many variables involved source internal resistance, minimum (real) energy transfer conditions, resonance frequency – I will rerun the experiment with different batteries. -
The video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPtIdiXcC3g
kind regards and good luck Luc Duncan

[gotoluc]

Good day Duncan

You are a man of your word

Thanks for taking the time to find the right condition batteries to do such a test and to record it from beginning to end.

Will look forward to see other attempts if you wish to continue trying. Maybe include a thermometer in your next try if you can.
Any measurable reduction in temperature would be interesting to see.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Duncan]

Pleasure Luc - despite my own squabbling's and ups and downs with this system and its players I assure you it has merit,
For a researcher who has never witnessed a convincing COP +1 machine running with no obvious extra energy injection I know that's a difficult pill to swallow.
Quite apart from the physical event there's a mental hurdle involved . You seem to have the equipment and the attitude to add to that which has gone previous, As regards the little run I just did Luc in hindsight I suspect the source battery was not in good enough condition (to much internal R) - I may try with L-Ion source
As for unexplained COP+1 machinery for anyone who really doubts its existence simply look out of the window. A huge engine driving a world wide irrigation system is running around the clock and it has been for millions of years . How those millions of tons of water rise and defy gravity is still offically unknown (do you beleive that?) but it certainly is a huge COP+1 system very much in evidence and absolutely undeniable.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi duncan, sure seems like The Peltier effect.
peace love light

[Duncan]

replicating - what ?

Hi Sky - 'perhaps', is all I can say there is certainly something of the semi conductor effect as you see. The nightmare of this effect that many have seen now is that it disobeys one of the fundamental rules of experiments - replication,
If you don't have guaranteed replication your hats hanging on a shaky nail, Perhaps next to a few bits and bobs belonging to Fleischmann and Pons, for instance. Believe or not Sky there are many COP+1 systems that work but none I can think of quite as dramatic and useful as this effect when its 'on song'. Many reading have not seen anything running COP+1 never mind the 3BGS thats why Sky its important that another respected experimenter (Luc) has the good fortune to witness this effect.
Having said that many replicated Fleischmann and Pons but not enough to sway the balance in favor.
Here then is the dilemma everyone reading wants and hopes to see Luc recreate and experience the effect, those who have already experienced it are far more interested in -- why it happens. That truly is what wants to be 'nailed down'
I.M.H.O Luc is quite correct in his opinion that there is in this effect the potential to alter the world out of all recognition - if we knew exactly what is happening.
I guess as an important first step Luc needs to experience that rush of energy into the system that many already have before he can take the whole thing really seriously. whilst I and others who already have experienced this effect fret about the 'hows and why's'.
Ah so we get to conjecture Sky and when faced with something going on that we simply 'don't know' you have to be very ruthless in a binary way as to exactly whats essential to the effect and what can be dispensed with for example I in no way doubt Matt's motors may provoke or assist the effect but its not primary to the effect - ergo its not essential In fact as you've probably noticed Sky, David has already told us the effect has already been reproduced with a simple 555 timer. Its the core , the heart of the beast we want!
History records that David's first and most dramatic incarnation of this effect (many years ago now) was with two batteries and not three ergo one battery becomes 'non essential' (although David Bowlin's 2 battery system does sound a bit odd I admit.) It does considerably reduce the odds for those seeking the real 'why' as to what makes this frustrating beast really bounce.
After all what could be simpler two batteries and a motor all in series ? (and Its already been established that the motor can be replaced)
Well Sky as you saw from the little run I did earlier its usually shifting sand with a box of crystals that decide to pass current and indeed quickly start reforming into a battery which I think some mistakenly think of as charging. Of course Its not charging ! Its not DC ! and Its infinite resistance as you saw ! very importantly however its not infinite impedance and as I showed earlier its capable of being driven into 'RESONANCE' so Sky back to essentials because before this can be nailed down the smoke and mirrors have to be dispensed with. I would encourage folks think in reverse . It is after all one very special effect we are seeking so by logical elimination or substitution why not isolate it ?
Having said that Its very important to all of us I'm sure that Luc see's this effect any,which way.
given than that we look at a series driven inductive oscillator between two batteries one of which can only be loosely termed 'a battery' Here's the question that comes straight to my mind - you have all read ,seen or experienced lead acid battery 'rejuvenation' circuits, Those who have built Bedini circuits although they may not have seen COP+1 effects have usually seen batteries resuscitated . The question is then at some point in that pulse cycle is the battery being 'reconditioned' faster than the energy input would normally charge such a battery?
I suspect so, but of course like this bloody thing its a battery effect , transient and fleeting for most of us.
kind regards Duncan

[Satyam108]

Quixote Syndrome

If you don't have guaranteed replication your hats hanging on a shaky nail, Perhaps next to a few bits and bobs belonging to Fleischmann and Pons, for instance.

Here then is the dilemma everyone reading wants and hopes to see Luc recreate and experience the effect, those who have already experienced it are far more interested in -- why it happens. That truly is what wants to be 'nailed down'

I.M.H.O Luc is quite correct in his opinion that there is in this effect the potential to alter the world out of all recognition - if we knew exactly what is happening.

I would encourage folks think in reverse . It is after all one very special effect we are seeking so by logical elimination or substitution why not isolate it ?

"Hat's hangin on a shaky nail" - HA! good one!

Many if not all of "us" researchers - Aether Stalkers - can identify with don Quixote:

I come in a world of iron to make a world of gold.

"This is my quest, to follow that star!"

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Man_of_La_Mancha

I have read MANY reports of researchers experiencing Cold Electricity-Tesla of course, Floyd "Sparky" Sweet, Bedini, Lindemann, the Correas - I think even Baron von Richenbach reported it back in the 18th or 19th century. For me it's the PULSES - oscillations, vibrations, sound - whether from a pulse motor (and all DC permanent magnet motors pulse I believe - Lenz Lives) or a 555 oscillator. Bruce DePalma (he may have documented cold electricity as well) found and told us that the Aether (Space, Akasha, Primordial Sound, ZPE) is isotropic and the way to "get at it," to utilize it, is to disturb it - "poke the bear." Introduce ANISOTROPY.

The reason why Bedini had all north poles facing out was to create the "sharp unidirectional pulses" that disturb the Aether.


Another Aether "Anomaly" - Anti Gravity - from a DePalma Quadrapole N Machine.

The cautionary tale of the Pons and Fleischmann smack down by the Fizzix Establishment (see Eugene Mallove's "Fire From Ice") notwithstanding, IMHO, "we" are making progress, and will in fact, "alter the world out of all recognition." As Tesla said (paraphrasing) "The day Man understands what electricity is will be the greatest in human history . . . humanity like an anthill stirred up with a stick . . . .see the excitement coming!"

Regards
Jim

[Duncan]

very Good Jim -tilting at windmills ? - I don't want to clutter Luc's thread with conjecture although I have plenty to share. Are you aware Jim that crystals 'en mass' can be poled just like a magnetic sample ?
https://www.comsol.com/blogs/piezoel...ing-direction/
I have long pondered if this effect isn't at the heart of the effect we are watching - But even if I am right to make it stable is still a problem

[Satyam108]

Damnable Cluttering Conjecturers

very Good Jim -tilting at windmills ? - I don't want to clutter Luc's thread with conjecture although I have plenty to share. Are you aware Jim that crystals 'en mass' can be poled just like a magnetic sample ?
https://www.comsol.com/blogs/piezoel...ing-direction/
I have long pondered if this effect isn't at the heart of the effect we are watching - But even if I am right to make it stable is still a problem

Thanks Duncan, Yes I agree we shouldn't clutter Luc's thread, but as we're at a sort of intermission now - waiting for equipment, materials, and automation for the 2nd round of 3BSTP, hopefully you won't mind a little conjecture Luc? A little trip to the concession stand for some popcorn before the show resumes?

I have attached the first chapter of Gerry Vasilatos' Lost Science on Baron von Richenbach as it has some interesting stuff about magnets, crystals and Od - what the Baron called Aether. The anisotropy - symmetry breaking - in the article you linked is a necessary part of getting "energy from the vacuum" as Bearden would term it, and it seems that Bedini delved pretty deeply into the subject with his crystal battery work:
Crystal Batteries Lecture

Because Aether/Akasha/Space/Primordial Sound/ZPE is "everywhere" - at the finest level of creation - quite a ways back I predicted that tens, then hundreds, and then thousands of ways to "get at" the Aether will be found, and the ones that get adopted, utilized, or brought to market, should logically be the ones that are easiest, cheapest, and safest, while keeping in mind the triumph of VHS over BetaMax. (Yeah that dates me.)

Now in my late 60's and a dozen years tilting at the windmills and dodging the slings and arrows, I have finally realized my Life's Work: Helping to restore The Lost Science of Aether. I'm working on my own 3BSTP R&D, so not going to leave this thread of Luc's to venture into the crystal forest, as I've already learned much from it, but will add another layer of the crystal stuff to one of the pots on a mental back burner. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Satyam108]

Started New Thread - Bedini Cigars

Please take a look:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post306333

A tape of John Bedini speaking at the 1984 Tesla Centennial Symposium - where he first introduced 3BSTP in a cigar box has been found.

[Duncan]

Very interesting chapter thanks Jim - I also liked the links to JBs crystal stuff. I have watched the video previous. It's quite important I think to understand John was working in a very hampered fashion. He makes it very clear in his video's and writings. Having been attacked and threatened he obviously came to some sort of working relationship with the powers that be. By extension the same could perhaps be applied to all COP+1 forums . The COP +1 part of the equation isn't really all that hard Its been done and dusted a lot of times and if you study the man instead of the machine it becomes very quickly apparent who and what is true and what is smoke and mirrors.
This documentary which strangely manages get top marking on a website dedicated to 'top documentaries' touches most of the bases regarding COP+1 systems and why we don't have them. I hope you can spare the time to watch it
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/big-...nquered-world/
So popular was the documentary that James was obliged to follow it up with this -
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-...nquered-world/
I do hope that those reading Jim take the time to watch and become first one in a thousand whilst helping to move the odds to one in a hundred for everyone.
I'm afraid its not a money thing its all about 'control' enslavement to be more precise. That the ambition you wish Jim is coming I haven't any doubt but the reason for that thinking is disturbing Its here
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mily-s-fortune
The rats are abandoning ship. Of course they will make sure they still hold the strings which control common mortal man.
As regards Bedini's systems demonstrating COP+1 and being able to to self run, hundreds if not thousands of folks have had a jaundice experience attempting that little trick.
Its probably possible but like this prospect there's far to many variables. variables we are not told about.
One of the oddest 'variables' concerns the business JB called 'conditioning' the battery.
The coating on the battery plates changes colour in the process of charging/rejuvenating several times to a light slate gray - very different from normal charging, different stuff , and presumably different characteristics. The trouble with conjecture Jim is for all its fun it also introduces more variables but as you've asked here's my two penn'orth. 1/ since I have seen this effect I have to assume the effect we consider rejuvenation can supply real energy much faster than standard charging. There are many so called de-sulfator circuits available here is one chosen from the many
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b6/201...desulfator.pdf
after a few lines you'll see (as I showed in an earlier video) that its quite possible to find a batteries resonant points . resonance by its electrical definition indicates no real power consumption so in a nutshell its quite possible to have a dramatic effect on batteries whilst using no energy.
Its transient and only part of the curve hence many have seen it but like will O'wisp Its soon gone.
Is it then possible that this quasi Cristal structure could generate power and so usable energy if its driven at a resonant frequency ?
Well to drift a little bit Thomas Trawoger manages to drive a motor from a poled Cristal structure (quartz) inside a pyramid structure . Here is a video of Thomas poling the quartz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ghzrqfBKg&t=37s
Well its my thinking Jim that at some point in the cycle all this has the good grace to come together and perhaps if a battery might be constructed of something more permanent (maybe even quartz) a more permanent demonstration might -- just might be possible . well my two pennies has quickly turned into a shilling and it is just my conjecture on what I have already seen. That cigar box could well be engaged in the same area - kind regards Jim - Duncan

[bistander]

Battery Capacity Tests

Hi all,

It's been a bit quiet on the 3 battery tests. I do not have any 3 battery tests to report but I did just run some battery discharge test a few days ago which some here might find useful, or maybe somewhat interesting. A friend has an old Razor e200 he'd like to get running and give to his son. Was able to get the motor/chain drive straightened out to where it could run decent but needed new batteries and charger. So I got a pair of batteries; new lead-acid 12V, 7Ah sealed. Been my experience that it is all too common to get a bad battery even when buying new. So I test them, all.

I use a West Mountain Radio model CBA III tester. It does discharge only at constant current and plots the curve. You are able to select the current, stopping voltage (EOT) and the x-axis for the plot (minutes, Amp Hrs or Watt Hrs). Before each test I fully charge the battery. The plots are attached.

First test was each battery alone at 7 Amperes constant down to 10 Volts. Plotted against Amp Hrs.
#1 did 3.286Ah
#2 did 3.026Ah
This discharge test was at 1C. Results are less than 50% of the rated capacity of 7 Ampere hours. About what I'd expect. Difference between the two samples is typical of commercial batteries of this type at this rate.

Next test, after fully charging both batteries, was a discharge with the two batteries in series for 24V, 7Ah, rated. A 1C rate is in excess of the tester so I ran at C/2, 3.5 Amperes, constant current, down to 21.0V. I ran this test twice shown on the plot as test #1 and test #2. Tests were about 4 hours apart with a relatively fast charge (1C) during that time. So the batteries were likely warmer for test #2 and could explain slightly higher results. Here I selected to plot against minutes. Plot attached.
Test #1 showed about 71 minutes and 4.085Ah.
Test #2 showed about 76 minutes and 4.384Ah.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

continuation of previous post

{continuation of previous post}

Note the higher capacity (Ampere hours) from these tests at C/2 versus the tests at 1C; almost 33% (4 to 3), attributed to the Peukert's effect.

For the last test, 24 Volts at 3.5 Amperes, I inserted a small Watt meter between the battery and the CBA III tester. It is similar to the units Luc was using on his tests. It showed 4.716Ah (vs 4.384Ah on the CBA III) and 113.7 Watt hours.

Thanks for your attention.

bi