The bistander thread

[bistander]

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From the Motor Generator thread. Totally stupid Thane Heins video. Why doesn't the guy simply look up the definitions of 'electric motor' and 'electric heater'? And the definition of power conversion efficiency?

Let's start with efficiency. Efficiency is the actual output of desired power divided by the power input.

Electric heater is a device which converts electric power input to heat, or thermal power output.

Electric motor is a device which converts electric power input to mechanical power output.

Efficiency of the electric motor is mechanical output power in watts divided by electric input power in watts and is always less than 1. The difference between input power watts and output power watts is undesired heat measured in watts. It is often referred to as loss because it is not a desired motor output.

Efficiency of the electric heater is heat output in watts divided by electric power input in watts. Since heat is the desired output and all the electric power input is converted to heat, watts output is equal to watts input and efficiency is 1. There is no loss in this case.

Thane just needs to learn the difference between an electric motor and an electric heater.

There is a special case called a locked rotor motor test where the mechanical power output of the motor is zero watts and all the electric power input is converted to heat. In this case, the efficiency of the electric motor is 0. 0 mechanical power output divided by the electric power input is 0 for efficiency. All the electric power input is lost as heat because heat is not the desired output of the electric motor.

bi

ps MERRY CHRISTMAS

[bistander]

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[bistander]

Something new crossed my news feed.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/202...4-toshiba.html

Is interesting magnetic material. Developed for motor slot wedge. Orientated flake material low loss. Hmm. Cores?

Also article gives perspective of magnitude of today's electromechanical energy conversation and impact of a single point efficiency gain.

Years ago I spent a week in the dynamometer lab at Toshiba in Houston using a 300kW test stand for a motor I worked on. Found a virtual tour of the factory here:

https://www.toshiba.com/tic/

Merry Christmas,
bi

[bistander]

When a coil is at "TDC" (we understand that refers to the alignment) or when it is perfectly aligned with a rotor magnet, that is the moment of GREATEST MAGNETIC ATTRACTION. That's where the magnet will "lock" onto the core if the rpm and torque of the motor is not enough to carry it by. So yeah, I consider it the moment of truth.
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But the generator would work without out a core. There's no attraction at TDC then, is there? So what is the big deal? It's just cogging when a core is present, and cogging is irrelevant with regards to power production.

Just don't see your point.
bi

[BroMikey]

Hey Turion,
Thane has this shown wrong on his charts as I've pointed out before. You, or especially your buddy, do a disservice promoting his "educational" videos. The guy is an idiot. But happy holidays.
bi

That is not nice but I am not surprised you both hate poor Thane. Shame on you for calling him names when you have no rational response to his very detailed teaching video's Wolf pack cowards disgust me. I am well aware of all of these facts. Thane is a great man but has a big job explaining his bench work while breaking the metal blocks.

When each of you criticizing Thane can offer an intelligent reply I will be all ears. Until then you know what I think of your low class personal opinions. America has truly been dumbed down. I do not expect that either one of you will have anything to help us all in this learning process, only arrogance, look at me, I am the ultimate. Zhit of everyone else. That is where birds of a feather fly. neither of you know much but make a good sound. All talk and no action. Still waiting on parts. Neither of you are making mistakes about theory because both are to stupid on Engineering to make an intelligent remark.

You can not tell right from wrong because you were never taught. So amoung Engineers you will be considered a fool. With no desire to learn anything. Yup.

[Turion]

When a coil is at "TDC" (we understand that refers to the alignment) or when it is perfectly aligned with a rotor magnet, that is the moment of GREATEST MAGNETIC ATTRACTION. That's where the magnet will "lock" onto the core if the rpm and torque of the motor is not enough to carry it by. So yeah, I consider it the moment of truth.

I have never promoted Thane's educational videos. Not ever. Never saw the need. The proof is on the bench, and video explanations prove nothing. That's why I encourage people to actually BUILD this stuff.

[bistander]

That's NOT possible. Rotors turn. Thats what they do. A rotor magnet can't maintain a position where half of it is over a magnet of one polarity and the other half is over a magnet of another polarity. If it COULD, there would be no flux change to induce electricity in the coil anyway. At SOME POINT the rotor magnet will be directly aligned with the core of the coil. This is the moment of truth.
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Hey Turion,
I think you are mixed up/confused about this. It is difficult to tell what you're trying to say. But 'moment of truth' you say is when rotor magnet is directly aligned with the coil core, or as your buddy calls it, TDC, carryover from combustion engines, I guess. But at that point, the generated voltage in the coil is zero. That's the moment of truth? Thane has this shown wrong on his charts as I've pointed out before. You, or especially your buddy, do a disservice promoting his "educational" videos. The guy is an idiot. But happy holidays.
bi

[Turion]

It will be my pleasure.

[bistander]

I also sent them links to analog volt meters and amp meters so they could put one of each on each coil pair. Then you can tell in a glance what is going on.

Good. Looking forward to it.

From MG thread:

This generator is so far from being ready for production it isn’t even funny. What about the heat issue? Will ferrite cores eliminate that or reduce it substantially? Can the RPM be reduced without sacrificing output enough to eliminate it? How long will the bearings last under the incredible stresses of magnetic attraction and repulsion? Are there other materials, like non magnetic stainless steel, that the rotor and at least parts of the coil holders SHOULD be made of. With more magnets on the rotor can the RPM be significantly reduced? Will the coils have to be connected differently? Will the number of strands in series need to be reduced? Will the wires need to be reduced in length? Coils are currently putting out over 300 volts. Can that be reduced by changing something in the wiring without sacrificing the “neutral” aspect of the coils. How much slower do we have to run with the current rotor to return to the “neutral” range? Can we get there by just running faster?

This was simply a prototype to prove that the ideas it combines could work to do what I say they can do. Someone with a heck of a lot more background in electronics and mechanical engineering, motor design and generator design needs to spend a couple years exploring possibilities.

Can the machine, with much FASTER ferrite cores, run as a generator, fire as a motor at TDC, and then run as a generator again as the rotor magnet moves away? If it CAN, there is no need for magnetic neutralization now is there? Let the iron cores attract the magnets until TDC and fire the coils as motor coils THROUGH the coils with the 3 Battery method, collecting 85-95% of the energy used to fire them. And collect the generated energy as the rotor magnet moves away. Super fast switching and incredible timing, but possible.

Why spend the TIME and money (thousands and thousands of dollars) to develop this machine and answer all those questions when it is obsolete??????

it probably cost me close to $2,000 to have the newest version of the machine built that I am putting together right now. I did it for a couple of reasons. I am tired of bistander yapping and it will be fun to shut him up for good. But he hides in the dark behind a fake name, so if he is embarrassed enough he will just change it and come back as someone else.

But I wanted a SOLID working prototype sitting on my bench that I could point to and say “That was my idea.” Not the unit that Greyland is working with that must remain bolted to the bench because the bottom mounting plateI flexes and puts everything out of adjustment if you move it. Not the machine that Greyland has that vibrates enough and flexes enough that every hour or so you have to readjust the rotor to keep it centered between the coil holders. I will have a machine designed and built to eliminate all the problems of past machines, just as the one Greyland has was built to address all the problems of the version before it. And that’s good enough for me. Whatever problems I discover with the new machine I will point out and it will be up to someone else to figure out how to solve them if that is the road they want to travel. 16 versions of this machine and probably $20,000-$30,000 invested to figure out there is a better way. Worth every penny of that to understand how electricity REALLY works. And THAT is the path foreword, not clunky, noisy, mechanical machines with spinning rotors that can fly to pieces and seriously DAMAGE things, including YOU.

I cannot, in good conscious, recommend pouring thousands of dollars into the development of something that is functionally obsolete when that same money could be put into something else that is safer, smaller, more productive, far lighter, and has far more POTENTIAL. But folks can do what they want. They usually do.

You say:

I am tired of bistander yapping and it will be fun to shut him up for good.

Go for it. I've been waiting years for you to back up your claim. Show the world that your device actually delivers more real power output than it uses as input.

Go ahead, have fun,
bi

[Turion]

I also sent them links to analog volt meters and amp meters so they could put one of each on each coil pair. Then you can tell in a glance what is going on.

[Turion]

They are going back to a DC motor run on a power supply, but that power supply will still be plugged into a kill-a-watt meter. I already recommended it to them and I’m pretty sure they are going to buy one. Mine is old enough that the minute you cut power out, it loses all data. The newer ones keep it. I bought it when I first started this stuff like 12-14 years ago.

[bistander]

Met with Greyland's friend and his dad today. They came by my old house. ...

Post of 12-17-2020 on MG thread.

Hey Turion,
It'd been cool if you'd lent the guys your kill-a-watt meter to get the AC input readings. Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.
Regards,
bi

[bistander]

2800 RPM for the neutral effect is accurate. At least with the OLD rotor that only had six magnets. You may have forgotten, but I had this machine at the independent testing lab not once but TWICE. They confirmed RPM under FULL load and they confirmed input to the run motor. They also confirmed output from coils to load. What they would NOT confirm was total output of the machine. We have always had each coil pair hooked up to its own load, a 300 watt light bulb. So six switches and six bulbs. Six loads. They did not have the meters to to put on six loads to measure voltage and amps all at the same time, so would not confirm TOTAL output. But I learned to add when I was young, so I was able to compute total output all by myself. This is the same lab Greyland does a lot of machine work for, so he has a good relationship with them and set it all up.

The motor they will be using is the 36 volt MY1020, and it’s rated speed happens to be 2800 RPM. So it should work out fine. The correct RPM should be LESS than that with DOUBLE the magnets on the rotor. Maybe much less. My new machine has 22 magnets on the rotor, so the RPM may be MUCH lower. Time will tell.

BUT, you must remember, nothing is real unless bistander says it is.
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Since I'm mentioned by nickname, I'll save post here for reference.

I am glad that Turion recognizes that I am better at reality than he is. Hopefully he'll continue to post real data and we can finally confirm that I have been correct all along.

Regards,
bi

[Netica]

Yes.
Regards,
bi

Thanks bi,
Will give it a go when my set up is ready.
Regards
netica

[bistander]

Hi bistander,

Thanks for your advise.
I am only using a panel meter.
So from what you are saying I take it that you can run it like normal but best to be on the negative side.
My thoughts are that even though it is high voltage it shouldn't matter as it is all the same potential within the meter as long as it can't earth or short with anything, is this correct?

Yes.
Regards,
bi