The bistander thread

[bistander]

If it's so simple, YOU run it. I have MY proof and that's all I need. You have your BELIEFS which are worth less than nothing. There are others out there who could substantiate your position OR mine if they chose to, because they have built coils that will speed up under load. If one of THEM chooses to run the test you want, you'll get your proof. I'm never going an inch out of my way to prove ANYTHING to you. Not ever.

Hi Turion,

You say: "There are others out there who could substantiate your position OR mine if they chose to, because they have built coils that will speed up under load. If one of THEM chooses to run the test you want, you'll get your proof."
This guy did just that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ
Confirms what I said was going on with bifilar generator coils when I first saw it happening on a Thane Heins thread years ago. My position regarding the science and physics has hundreds of years of proofs. You're the one making extraordinary claims so the burden of proof is in you, otherwise it's just BS.

I recall two other tests run by others which debunked your generator claims, or maybe it was the Matt motor claim. And one test on your 3BGS system. None supported your claims. You bad-mouthed the test and insulted/ridiculed the experimenter but never demonstrated anything yourself. Even when I replicated your 1BGS you couldn't ever show me where you had ever even built it yourself or what your data was.

Been meaning to check. How's your new secret FE project coming along with the two teams of engineers? You know, the one you claimed was so far advanced as to obsolete your 2000W out / 300W in generator. A couple of years since you laid that out. Just a tease with no substance, right?

Don't prove anything to me. Show the world the Free Energy you've been bragging about.

I sincerely wish you would.
Regards,
bi

[Turion]

If it's so simple, YOU run it. I have MY proof and that's all I need. You have your BELIEFS which are worth less than nothing. There are others out there who could substantiate your position OR mine if they chose to, because they have built coils that will speed up under load. If one of THEM chooses to run the test you want, you'll get your proof. I'm never going an inch out of my way to prove ANYTHING to you. Not ever.

[bistander]

I have run those tests. I have that data. I am quite happy with my results. What you are saying is I need to do all those experiments again to prove it TO YOU. You overestimate your importance in the scheme of things. LOL.

plus you overlook completely the tremendous advantage the multi strand correctly wound coils have when connected correctly and run at the proper speed. Not only do they output more than the standard coil run at the same speed, but they avoid Lenz, which is the PURPOSE of using them in the first place. Or did you forget already?

Hi Turion,
You claim (your coil):
"they output more than the standard coil run at the same speed".
I outlined a simple test. Why not run it and prove your claim. Otherwise it is just like all your other bogus claims, isn't it? What's it been? At least 5 years which I know about. You, making claims, never showing proof. Oh, one time you did show your claim. Remember the 6-cell LiFePO4 12V battery on your bench? Funny how that was false.
Regards,
bi

Hi Turion,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ
...
You saw how the test in the subject video was run. It would seem simple enough for you to run a similar test. Record the maximum output from your design bifilar coil and compare to a standard wound coil of equal mass designed for equivalent speed and load.
Record your data like done in the video.

Or, just loop your machine.

[Turion]

I have run those tests. I have that data. I am quite happy with my results. What you are saying is I need to do all those experiments again to prove it TO YOU. You overestimate your importance in the scheme of things. LOL.

plus you overlook completely the tremendous advantage the multi strand correctly wound coils have when connected correctly and run at the proper speed. Not only do they output more than the standard coil run at the same speed, but they avoid Lenz, which is the PURPOSE of using them in the first place. Or did you forget already?

[bistander]

We were at 10-12 amps x 36 volts = around 400 watts input. But that was before Greyland managed to get the torque requirement needed to turn the generator down from 19lbs of torque to less than 3 pounds of torque, so I can't wait to see what the input will be. I imagine it will still be around 300-400 watts using the AC motor he will be using, but who knows. Regardless, it will be well within the kinds of "input required" I have claimed all along.

Just because I love to repeat things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ

Here is a great video showing what is possible. He is actually DEBUNKING what works. At the very end he shows that there is no difference in output between the Tesla (wound in parallel and connected in series) coil (Thane coil, or what he calls a "speed up under load {bifilar} coil") and a single strand "standard" coil. At the end, he says Inputs and Outputs are THE SAME. What he DOESN'T understand is that when a coil is causing speed up under load, it is NOT outputting to its MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. He tested the coil at an RPM where it was "speeding up (the motor) under load" and then compared it to a standard coil running at that same RPM. The bifilar coil should be NEITHER speeding up the motor NOR slowing it down. Then and ONLY THEN is it outputting at its maximum potential. Had he taken the time to REDUCE the speed of the motor to the point where the (bifilar) coil was neither speeding up NOR slowing down the motor when placed under load, he would have seen two things:

1. The output of the (bifilar) coil would have gone UP higher than the standard coil he was comparing it to was running at the HIGHER RPM, and WAY, WAY, WAY above what the "standard" coil would output at the new, LOWER RPM, because the bifilar coil would then have been operating at its MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. Reduced rotor speed (at that point) but HIGHER output from the coil. Did he show that? Nope! Does he even KNOW that? Probably not.

2. When the motor was SLOWED DOWN to allow this to take place, the AMP DRAW of the motor would have been REDUCED, and hence the INPUT reduced. So you get a greater OUTPUT from the bifilar coil and LESS INPUT to the system at the correct, LOWER, RPM. Did he do that? Nope. Does he know that? Probably not.

I posted this, and last night I realized ONE IMPORTANT POINT I failed to mention that explains WHY what I have said here is possible. Tesla said that when you wrap a coil with wires in parallel but connect them in series it increases the CAPACITANCE of the coil. The amount of wire is the SAME, but the capacitance of the coil is greater. This is what allows it to put out more power than a standard single wire coil when run at the CORRECT speed. If the experimenter had wound FOUR strands that totaled up to the same length of wire as the standard single strand coil, the output of the multi-filer coil at the CORRECT speed would have been way more dramatic and MUCH more than the single strand coil. I know this because I have DONE these experiments. The proof is on the bench.

The individual performing these tests saw NONE of that. And bi, who has USED this video to show that we do not know what we are talking about, has seen NONE of that either. Neither of them understand what is possible. Most people don't. They cannot see outside the box they are stuck in. So the tester is DEBUNKING something he doesn't even understand because he hasn't researched it enough, and bi accepts his incorrect "conclusions" because he has built nothing and has to go on the word of others who have not done the experimenting either. What a great club they are in. No dues. No membership fee. All that is required to join is to climb into their box and close the lid.

Other than these minor mistakes, it is a very well done video. I did these same kind of experiments TEN YEARS AGO. But I ALSO did the ones I just described. I'm not stuck in a box.
Remember "The Emperor’s New Clothes"?? LOL. bi needs to put some pants on! Disgraceful!

Hi Turion,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ

Here is a great video showing what is possible. He is actually DEBUNKING what works. At the very end he shows that there is no difference in output between the Tesla (wound in parallel and connected in series) coil (Thane coil, or what he calls a "speed up under load {bifilar} coil") and a single strand "standard" coil. At the end, he says Inputs and Outputs are THE SAME.

So we agree. He shows (demonstrates) the bifilar coil and standard coil of equal mass perform the same under load. And, he demonstrates that the bifilar coil exhibits extra losses (higher input power and lower speed) when open circuit (no-load) whereas the standard coil does not. That is, I believe, his objective of the test.

The implication is that there is no advantage to the bifilar coil compared to the standard coil under equal loads at equal speeds. And that any improvement in performance exhibited using a bifilar coil, namely increased RPM/reduced input power to drive motor, between loaded and no-load as a generator coil, is just due to the excessive power consumption of the bifilar coil in the no-load condition. And such power consumption at no-load is not present using a standard coil (which yielded same loaded performance as the bifilar coil). Therefore, any reasonable person would likely not consider using bifilar wound generator coils.

Now, you claim that can use bifilar generator coils and derive more power and/or other performance benefits compared to conventional wound coils of equal mass designed for, and operating at the speed and load. I see no evidence, or reason, to support that claim. You say you ran a test years ago. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. You didn't bother to present any data, notes, video, or anything else to support your claim.

You saw how the test in the subject video was run. It would seem simple enough for you to run a similar test. Record the maximum output from your design bifilar coil and compare to a standard wound coil of equal mass designed for equivalent speed and load.
Record your data like done in the video.

Or, just loop your machine.

Regards,
bi

[Turion]

We were at 10-12 amps x 36 volts = around 400 watts input. But that was before Greyland managed to get the torque requirement needed to turn the generator down from 19lbs of torque to less than 3 pounds of torque, so I can't wait to see what the input will be. I imagine it will still be around 300-400 watts using the AC motor he will be using, but who knows. Regardless, it will be well within the kinds of "input required" I have claimed all along.

Just because I love to repeat things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfRxsC9yumQ

Here is a great video showing what is possible. He is actually DEBUNKING what works. At the very end he shows that there is no difference in output between the Tesla (wound in parallel and connected in series) coil (Thane coil, or what he calls a "speed up under load {bifilar} coil") and a single strand "standard" coil. At the end, he says Inputs and Outputs are THE SAME. What he DOESN'T understand is that when a coil is causing speed up under load, it is NOT outputting to its MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. He tested the coil at an RPM where it was "speeding up (the motor) under load" and then compared it to a standard coil running at that same RPM. The bifilar coil should be NEITHER speeding up the motor NOR slowing it down. Then and ONLY THEN is it outputting at its maximum potential. Had he taken the time to REDUCE the speed of the motor to the point where the (bifilar) coil was neither speeding up NOR slowing down the motor when placed under load, he would have seen two things:

1. The output of the (bifilar) coil would have gone UP higher than the standard coil he was comparing it to was running at the HIGHER RPM, and WAY, WAY, WAY above what the "standard" coil would output at the new, LOWER RPM, because the bifilar coil would then have been operating at its MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. Reduced rotor speed (at that point) but HIGHER output from the coil. Did he show that? Nope! Does he even KNOW that? Probably not.

2. When the motor was SLOWED DOWN to allow this to take place, the AMP DRAW of the motor would have been REDUCED, and hence the INPUT reduced. So you get a greater OUTPUT from the bifilar coil and LESS INPUT to the system at the correct, LOWER, RPM. Did he do that? Nope. Does he know that? Probably not.

I posted this, and last night I realized ONE IMPORTANT POINT I failed to mention that explains WHY what I have said here is possible. Tesla said that when you wrap a coil with wires in parallel but connect them in series it increases the CAPACITANCE of the coil. The amount of wire is the SAME, but the capacitance of the coil is greater. This is what allows it to put out more power than a standard single wire coil when run at the CORRECT speed. If the experimenter had wound FOUR strands that totaled up to the same length of wire as the standard single strand coil, the output of the multi-filer coil at the CORRECT speed would have been way more dramatic and MUCH more than the single strand coil. I know this because I have DONE these experiments. The proof is on the bench.

The individual performing these tests saw NONE of that. And bi, who has USED this video to show that we do not know what we are talking about, has seen NONE of that either. Neither of them understand what is possible. Most people don't. They cannot see outside the box they are stuck in. So the tester is DEBUNKING something he doesn't even understand because he hasn't researched it enough, and bi accepts his incorrect "conclusions" because he has built nothing and has to go on the word of others who have not done the experimenting either. What a great club they are in. No dues. No membership fee. All that is required to join is to climb into their box and close the lid.

Other than these minor mistakes, it is a very well done video. I did these same kind of experiments TEN YEARS AGO. But I ALSO did the ones I just described. I'm not stuck in a box.
Remember "The Emperor’s New Clothes"?? LOL. bi needs to put some pants on! Disgraceful!

[BroMikey]

BroMikey
Good luck and a lot of effort in your project, that you achieve your purposes
Greetings

Thanks Alex

Cool. While you're at it, loop it. Either way, you should be able to read input and output power.
bi

300-400 watts input depending with a hardy 1500-2000watt output. You can't remember the length of yer nose, I swear. yer slippin Bye

[alexelectric]

I am working on a $4000 trailer and am going to pick up a milling machine with it. little voices like BYE only serve to remind us of how mainstream affects the minds of the gullible masses. Academia has produced parroting clones who NEVER show the real experimental DATA THAT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS Professor whatchyamacallit.

Awesome push forward Dave. Crush the naysayers, BYE and the likes are on life support. Get off yer azzez and get yer own data slugsDave's getten soft in his old age so I;ll have to say it now. Get off yer butz

BroMikey
Good luck and a lot of effort in your project, that you achieve your purposes
Greetings

[bistander]

...
With magnetic neutralization in place I can run the MY1016 with 12 coils in place, with all 12 coils under load. These are facts. ...

Cool. While you're at it, loop it. Either way, you should be able to read input and output power.
bi

[BroMikey]

It isn't obvious when you only have a coil or two. .... and Bro Mikey who are working on this stuff all on their own..

I am working on a $4000 trailer and am going to pick up a milling machine with it. little voices like BYE only serve to remind us of how mainstream affects the minds of the gullible masses. Academia has produced parroting clones who NEVER show the real experimental DATA THAT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS Professor whatchyamacallit.

Awesome push forward Dave. Crush the naysayers, BYE and the likes are on life support. Get off yer azzez and get yer own data slugsDave's getten soft in his old age so I;ll have to say it now. Get off yer butz

[Turion]

It isn't obvious when you only have a coil or two. But my MY1016 would burn up with 4 coils in place. The MY1020 would burn up with six coils in place. Too much amp draw for the motor to turn the rotor past that much iron with all the magnets I have on the rotor. Didn't matter whether I started the machine with 6 coils, or waited until it was UP TO RATED SPEED and then moved the coils into position. It still burnt up. I have the charred remains of several motors of both sizes I can point to as proof. What do YOU have bi? Your opinion. Which is worth less than the burnt wire on my motors.

With magnetic neutralization in place I can run the MY1016 with 12 coils in place, with all 12 coils under load. These are facts. You can whine about efficiency and how the motors I am using are too small and attempt all kinds of misdirection, but the FACTS remain the facts. The whole goal for me was to turn the rotor with as many magnets as possible past as many coils as possible for as little input as possible while garnering the greatest output possible, I am still working on the greatest output possible, and have several ideas on that front I am exploring. My time is divided between this project, my OTHER generator, which has far more potential, and remodeling, so I am more than willing to let others continue the work whenever possible. It is great that there are now actually two different groups BESIDES ME that are working on this project, and I get info all the time from both of them. And then there are people like alexelectric and Bro Mikey who are working on this stuff all on their own. It is GOING to all come out, and then the people like YOU, bi, who hid in the shadows concealing your name and doing your darnedest to retard this work will be exposed for what you really are.

[BroMikey]

The proof is on the bench. When you see what is possible, all the babble from people who have not built anything means less than nothing. Don't let bi get you down Bro. He has to earn his paycheck.


I will repeat ..................This is the moment that causes cogging. Now you can speed a rotor up, and the faster the rotor spins the less the rotor jerks or coggs as a result of this moment in time, so the smoother the operation of the rotor APPEARS. But that force does NOT disappear. It is reflected in an increased amp draw of the motor which is in direct relation to the MASS of the core of the coil.

It is easy to jack one's jaw. You da man. All my college instructors told me it can't be done so no big shock that the yuppies parrot the propaganda. All freakin lunatics.

[alexelectric]

The repulsion from magnet to magnet is very strong with strong magnets, can we take advantage of it? Any benefit? let's see something
On the net there is an inventor, enthusiastic builder, I don't remember what his project is called

This enthusiastic researcher places two magnets (Magnet 1, Magnet 2) facing each other at the same pole (NN), he aligns them in a straight way in a horizontal line, to cancel the magnetic force of repulsion and to be able to bring it together, puts a coil between them, and energizes the coil to create a field that neutralizes the first magnet 1 (which is static, fixed), with magnet 2 (this magnet is free of movement on a horizontal channel), since it is in that state of magnetic lock and the magnets together , the coil stops energizing, the Magnet 1 field stops blocking and they go into repulsion with Magnet 2, all of that is compressible, repulsion.

Magnet 2 is fired with great force, the researcher makes several work tests with this principle, and gives his results.
I don't know if they've already seen it.

It seeks to take advantage of the effects and phenomena that we have in electromagnetic materials and accessories.

There are enthusiastic people and they seek and try to improve their engines, valid, it requires a lot of effort and dedication, there are advances and setbacks, such are the investigations.

A project that has been devoted a lot of time and effort is the one that Mr. Dave shows us and details us, with his advances and challenges and continues forward.

In Dave's motor project, he uses a basic principle of the law of poles, he employs it in repulsing and helping to neutralize the magnetic drag of the magnet and the generating coil, he has already repeated it many times as it helped him to install more coils in his motor, making the motor that drives your generator consume less current or not increase it.

I have been building a simple replica of Mr. Dave's project, using the repulsion of the poles to decrease the drag or magnetic pull magnet - coil core, in my replica it helped me to decrease that drag or attraction already mentioned.

When I did not have the repeller magnet in my replica, I could not rotate the generator shaft by hand, the magnetic attraction of the magnet to the coil core was too much, when I installed the repeller magnet I could rotate the generator shaft by hand.

Other data that I also expressed in some previous comments, I wrote that there was an input magnetic stop between the repulsive magnets (logical) that is overcome by the attraction of the magnet and the coil core, which has to be adjusted very well to be as little as possible the input magnetic stop between the repulsive magnets.

When the repulsion of the magnets comes into play, there is an additional thrust due to the strong repulsion of the magnets, which overcome the magnet-core attraction and make some additional turns due to the inertia and magnetic repulsion that overcomes the aforementioned attraction. , you can see the video of Mr. Dave's assistant where he turns the motor only with the repulsive magnets, the speed increased very fast that even Mr. BroMikey was scared by the speed that the generator was turning, so I mentioned previously , and I said well, there we have a hybrid motor, a dc motor and a magnetic repellent support motor.

In this hybrid motor it would be good to do a DC motor test (without repulsive magnets), turn it at a certain speed with a given load, measure the consumption (amps) of the DC motor, in the second test put the repulsive magnets on it, and turn it to the same speed and load of the first test, and measure the consumption of the DC motor, so we would have data that could show if the magnets helped us reduce consumption, hopefully Mr. Dave's assistant would do so, the more data we obtain we can continue improving prototypes.

Continuous with Mr. Dave's generator, when the motor rotor is going to stop, it is like a kind of pendulum swing, this is due to the magnetic stop and the attraction of the magnet-coil core, and as there is no longer a pushing force more to the rotor stops.

But what I was able to verify is that if it helps to reduce the magnet-coil core magnetic attraction, with the incorporation of the magnet to suppress the magnetic drag I could rotate the generator shaft with one hand.

I am missing a coil to complete the coil pair and test in series, and look for acceleration under load.
I follow and believe in Mr. Dave's project, he has invested time in it. Effort, financial resources, and he has explained to us its operating principle, he has shown us his videos, he has shared his experience.

There are also things that have to be improved, for example to avoid the magnetic input stop of the suppressor magnets, I think that you can put a previous magnetic shield and let the magnets repel when they are more in a linear position between them, and one you can look for various options for it, for example I put a bedini coil to act as the repulsor magnet, it would be ideal as the bedini coil is magnetized when it is already in alignment with the magnet, but the bedini coil is not strong enough, with the motor bedini can achieve great speed but not torque, so I did not achieve breakthrough, so one could search and continue experimenting.

I appreciate your spirit of cooperation. and I wish Mr. Dave success for his project.

Note:
Turion
“He is also having problems with two of the coils that need to be fixed. They have a tendency to spin as the rotor magnets go past them if they are not locked down tightly in place, and this has pulled some of the wires loos that need to be repaired. That may also take a couple days ”.

This problem also occurred in my generator the coil began to turn, it has to be held very well to prevent it from turning and some wires from being disconnected.

[Turion]

The proof is on the bench. When you see what is possible, all the babble from people who have not built anything means less than nothing. Don't let bi get you down Bro. He has to earn his paycheck.

Quantum_Well,
I will repeat what I have said many times. As the magnet approaches the core of a rotor it is attracted to it and accelerates. As it is trying to move away, it is also attracted, but this time backwards, and this negates the increase in speed that the rotor gained on approach. But there is a moment in time when the magnet is perfectly aligned with the core. When it is neither approaching nor leaving. This is also the moment of greatest attraction. This is the moment that causes cogging. Now you can speed a rotor up, and the faster the rotor spins the less the rotor jerks or coggs as a result of this moment in time, so the smoother the operation of the rotor APPEARS. But that force does NOT disappear. It is reflected in an increased amp draw of the motor which is in direct relation to the MASS of the core of the coil. The more coils you have, the greater the mass of iron attracted to the magnets on the rotor and the greater the amp draw of the motor to maintain its RPM. If ENOUGH coils are added, even AFTER the motor has attained full speed with NO COILS PRESENT, the motor will slow to a stop. Build it and you will see. Or don't. Makes no difference to me. These are FACTS which anyone who has built these kinds of machines is perfectly aware of. It is the reason my friend, who has a machine capable of holding 48 coils, has less than HALF that many on the machine. Even with two motors he does not have enough torque to overcome this "magnetic drag" even though the machine exhibits NO cogging, and has coils that are neutral...meaning they cause no increased amp draw from the motor to maintain RPM when placed under load.

For a very LONG time I have differentiated between cogging and what I call magnetic drag. Probably from the first time bi choose to attempt to explain that cogging goes away at speed so magnetic neutralization is not worth anything. This drag exists whether there is cogging or NOT.

Greyland has the machine down to less than 3 lbs of torque required to turn the generator under full load from a standing start. He has a new 3/4 HP AC motor that he will run off the wall and then switch over to the output off the coils to do this. The 1/4 HP motor he tried was not able to keep the machine running off the output of one coil pair, so he got a larger motor. Don't know how many coil pair will have to be dedicated to the NEW motor to loop the system, but he's working on it. Because I was posting this, I called him. He is working on machining the connecter between motor and generator. Should be done with that tonight. He is also having problems with two of the coils that need to be fixed. They have a tendency to spin as the rotor magnets go past them if they are not locked down tightly in place, and this has pulled some of the wires loose that need to be repaired. That may also take a couple days. But I expect that by next weekend he will have all the issues ironed out. It will be fairly hard to argue that we are giving false data from a self runner. It should be noted that my friend with the 48 coil machine is getting far more out of his coils than I am. That would be nice. He hasn't responded to my email, so I have no idea where he stands. I may have to give him a call one of these days when I have some free time.

Here is a picture from my friend who is machining all the parts to build a new machine for himself and for me, which will address all the issues Greyland and I found in the one Greyland is working with. He has enough coil forms for two more machines, but hasn't built more rotors yet.

ready.jpg

[Quantum_well]

Bi is right about cogging, what's happening is that there is some repulsion to rotation but when past the point of repulsion the energy is given back.
Similar thing with diesel engine, you'll find they spin over with no fuel quite easily once the momentum is built up.Now,say you've got a leaky valve, the engine becomes stiff to turn.