The bistander thread

[bistander]

Try a gaussmeter app for smart phone.
bi

[Turion]

Re: GENERATOR

Re. Generator

60 Hz data on the bulbs is easily obtained using the killawatt meter. This is a needed base point. The impedance of the bulbs vary with frequency.

I thought you were asking for amp draw of the bulb while connected to the generator. If you want it while connected to the wall, I can definitely do that with a killowatt meter. Or they can. They have one.

There is an inch of plastic around all of the coils' They sit in a hole drilled through solid plastic of the stator. So no "hidden" connections possible, but I will have them check anyway.

I can't get a gauss measurement, since they are 90 minutes away, and they do not have a gauss meter. I have one, but I have been unimpressed with the gauss measurements I have taken in the past. It seems I never get close to the same reading twice in a row.

Regarding frequency. You asked before for the distance between the center of the rotor and the center of the magnet. I gave you that information. Now you ask for the same information in a different way "BC radius." It is still 4 1/4" The guys do not have a scope or a meter that will give me the frequency. I have no way, until I travel to Sacramento, of getting any other data. They don't have the meters or a scope.

[bistander]

Re. Generator

Turion,
BC = Bolt Circle. Used on engineering drawings to specify the location of the centers of features in symmetrical circular patterns such as lug nuts on a wheel.

As far as frequency vs RPM, there has been a factor of 2 between your (you & other guy) calculation and mine originating from use of # of poles vs # of pole pairs. I have requested a measured frequency from you several times to clarify this. Many multimeters display this data when reading AC voltage. Also available on a scope. Once clarified, RPM will suffice.

60 Hz data on the bulbs is easily obtained using the killawatt meter. This is a needed base point. The impedance of the bulbs vary with frequency.

As far as magnet flux, I was hoping you could measure with the gaussmeter. Do it the same way for each of the magnet types (size and material).

Thanks.
bi
ps. Grounds and plastic bobbins. You'd be surprised at what can happen in places hidden from view. Doesn't hurt to take 5 seconds to check.

[BroMikey]

To reach frequency we need to remember that rpm is a per minute and frequency is per second. So divide by 60. 2840x10=28,400 divided by 60= 473 cps (cycles per second) not (child protective service)

hz is cps

[Turion]

Re: Generator data

#23 AWG copper wire at 20°C has 20.36 Ohms per 1000ft. Three strands of 1000ft each in parallel gives 6.79 Ohms per coil. For DC measurements, shape of the wire form doesn't matter.

Is the measured 7.1 Ohms for one coil?

For each coil independently

Is a coil pair two coils connected in series with each other, or parallel?

The Ends of the coil that have the same polarity magnet passing it are connected together.

Is the voltage measurement for the coil pair?

Voltage is for a coil pair, but individual voltage seems to be the same. Parallel coils, so same voltage.

Can we get the RPM at each voltage reading?

2840 rpm when all measurements were taken. On both machines, so there is a frequency difference here as one machine has 10 magnets (Black machine) and the other has 12 magnets

Since it is actually the speed used in Faraday, can you get the BC radius of the magnets?

I have no idea what BC radius is as opposed to radius. They are 1" diameter magnets, so the radius 1/2". but does BC radius have something to do with the flux field or some other issue?

# of magnets?

12 on one machine and 10 on the other.

And flux of each of the two magnets?

https://www.magnet4less.com/neodymiu...trong-cylinder Br Max 14800 gauss 115 lbs pull force

Air gap distance for each machine?

WILL HAVE TO FIND OUT

Both machines use N, S, N, S, .... magnetic pole orientation, right?

Correct

A frequency measurement for each machine at a noted RPM? Once this f/RPM ratio is verified, we only need RPM from then on.

Since there are 10 magnets on one rotor and it is turning at 2840 rpm I assumed the frequency was 2840 x 10 or 28,400 and the frequency of the other rotor was 2840 x 12 = 34,080. If it is something ELSE you are asking about, I have no idea what it is or how to measure it.

What is the rated voltage for the 100, 200 & 300W bulbs?

110V

What is the measured current draw for each bulb at rated voltage, 60Hz? VA? Watts?

WILL HAVE TO FIND OUT

Resistance changes with temperature. True for coils, and loads. One of those pistol IR thermometers would nice, for coils. For the bulbs, if you wait a short time at each test point, the filament temp should settle in. If a current measurement is taken real soon after the bulb is lit, reading could differ quite a bit from steady state. It's desirable to get stabilized data for repeatability sake.
It is really nice, actually a requirement most places, to have data records dated and initialled (person & place). Without some basic 'housekeeping', chasing discrepancies later on becomes a nightmare or impossible.
It's a good idea to check for grounds frequently. Take resistance between coil lead and core and/or frame. Should be megohms. Continuity checker on multimeter can suffice.
bi

Got it. Will see if I can get them to collect the missing data. I may have to make a trip to the city, and right now that is impossible. My 87 year old mom drove herself to the emergency room last night and didn't call me until 2:30 AM, so am dealing with that and my crazy dog. Lots of sleepless nights, and no time during the day.

[BroMikey]

Now that is the $50,000 dollar question, very good

Thanks.
Air gap distance for each machine?

bi

Thanks.
Re. Generator

#23 AWG copper wire at 20°C has 20.36 Ohms per 1000ft. Three strands of 1000ft each in parallel gives 6.79 Ohms per coil. For DC measurements, shape of the wire form doesn't matter.

Is the measured 7.1 Ohms for one coil?

Dude there are 3 strands, go back and do the math, zhit i'll do it for ya brb come on bi

Parallel resistance calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/physi...allel-resistor

7, 7 and 7 = 2.3 ohms

What is the rated voltage for the 100, 200 & 300W bulbs?
What is the measured current draw for each bulb at rated voltage, 60Hz? VA? Watts?

Bi he has always targeted 120vac for the coil pair. He told us he does not have all the data. Go back and read

Thanks.

It's a good idea to check for grounds frequently. Take resistance between coil lead and core and/or frame. Should be megohms. Continuity checker on multimeter can suffice.
bi

Coils are set in plastic

[bistander]

Re GENERATOR

Here is the data they provided me this morning.
Both coils wrapped with three strands of 1,000 feet of # 23
Old coils 5.4 ohms resistance
New Coils 7.1 ohms resistance??? This doesn't sound right to me, but that's what they said Since old coils and new coils were both wrapped with the same size of wire and length of wire, shouldn't the resistance be the same, even though the core material is different?

The same two coils or "coil pair" were tested on both machines. These are the NEW coils
Open voltage on old machine 302V
138V under load across a 100 W light bulb

New coil open voltage on new machine 170V
74V under load across 100 W light bulb

Thanks.
Re. Generator

#23 AWG copper wire at 20°C has 20.36 Ohms per 1000ft. Three strands of 1000ft each in parallel gives 6.79 Ohms per coil. For DC measurements, shape of the wire form doesn't matter.

Is the measured 7.1 Ohms for one coil?
Is a coil pair two coils connected in series with each other, or parallel?
Is the voltage measurement for the coil pair?
Can we get the RPM at each voltage reading?
Since it is actually the speed used in Faraday, can you get the BC radius of the magnets? # of magnets? And flux of each of the two magnets? Air gap distance for each machine?
Both machines use N, S, N, S, .... magnetic pole orientation, right?
A frequency measurement for each machine at a noted RPM? Once this f/RPM ratio is verified, we only need RPM from then on.
What is the rated voltage for the 100, 200 & 300W bulbs?
What is the measured current draw for each bulb at rated voltage, 60Hz? VA? Watts?
Resistance changes with temperature. True for coils, and loads. One of those pistol IR thermometers would nice, for coils. For the bulbs, if you wait a short time at each test point, the filament temp should settle in. If a current measurement is taken real soon after the bulb is lit, reading could differ quite a bit from steady state. It's desirable to get stabilized data for repeatability sake.
It is really nice, actually a requirement most places, to have data records dated and initialled (person & place). Without some basic 'housekeeping', chasing discrepancies later on becomes a nightmare or impossible.
It's a good idea to check for grounds frequently. Take resistance between coil lead and core and/or frame. Should be megohms. Continuity checker on multimeter can suffice.
bi

[BroMikey]

HUH?yeah but that is a lot of good data handed to me for free. Spoon fed is yumming. See your statement below

I think the issue is PROBABLY that the opposition magnets on the new machine are 3/4x 3/4 magnets, and the opposition on the old machine are the same diameter, but only 1/4" thick. I3/4" thick is probably just TOO much magnetic field close to the coils. That's why they are taking ALL the opposition magnets out of the NEW machine. Then we will try it with the 10 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will also try it with the 20 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will try it with the 24 magnet rotor we started with. If they ALL work, we just adjust the size of the opposition magnets. Sooner or later we will figure it out The old machine kicks ass with the new rotor mount, and new bearings, but the adjustment of the opposition magnets still suck. They could be replaced, and we will certainly do that because it will give us two working machines.

So you got it right there, looped and 4 free sets of coil output, let's see 500 watts plus? Free energy at last. Cept she may bog some with more coils. I don't know about the rest but this is good.

The only really good news for me is that the output from two coils ran the 120 V Pacific Scientific motor at over 2900 rpm unloaded.

[Turion]

I think the issue is PROBABLY that the opposition magnets on the new machine are 3/4 x 3/4, and the opposition on the old machine are the same diameter, but only 1/4" thick. 3/4" thick is probably just TOO much magnetic field close to the coils. That's why they are taking ALL the opposition magnets out of the NEW machine. Then we will try it with the 10 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will also try it with the 20 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will try it with the 24 magnet rotor we started with. If they ALL work, we just adjust the size of the opposition magnets. Sooner or later we will figure it out The old machine kicks ass with the new rotor mount, and new bearings, but the adjustment of the opposition magnets still sucks. They could be replaced, and we will certainly do that, because it will give us two working machines.

[BroMikey]

The current rotor on the new machine has places for 20 of the 1" magnets. But half of the holes are filled with plastic plugs. So it only has 10 N/S magnets, while the old machine has 12 of the 1" magnets configured N/S.

I didn't say 100 watts per coil pair output, and I didn't say 250 watt input 700 watt output.

The only really good news for me is that the output from two coils ran the 120 V Pacific Scientific motor at over 2900 rpm unloaded.

Wow that is really puzzling. Does each old and new machine have the opposition magnets on the outside? Yes? Then I am stumped. Those other figures are just me speculating. You would think that the rotor with less magnets would make them further apart from one another would produce less than 12 magnets. But the 20 and 24 magnet rotor crash being to close.

[Turion]

The current rotor on the new machine has places for 20 of the 1" magnets. But half of the holes are filled with plastic plugs. So it only has 10 N/S magnets, while the old machine has 12 of the 1" magnets configured N/S.

I didn't say 100 watts per coil pair output, and I didn't say 250 watt input 700 watt output.
I said it was connected to a 100 watt bulb. It was also lighting up a 200 watt bulb and a 300 watt bulb. They haven't reported AT ALL on the amp output. The only really good news for me is that the output from two coils ran the 120 V Pacific Scientific motor at over 2900 rpm unloaded.

[BroMikey]

.....coils wrapped with three strands of 1,000 feet of # 23

New Coils 7.1 ohms resistance??? This doesn't sound right to me, but that's what they said

The same two coils or "coil pair" were tested on both machines. These are the NEW coils
Open voltage on old machine 302V
138V under load across a 100 W light bulb

New machine (1" mags) old machine(2" mags) new coils(new cores) old coils (iron wire cores). I think the new machine had a different rotor while the old machine has 2" hockey puck magnets" is this right? You have so many.

Which ever, this is a phenomenal output of over 100watts per coil pair. Not bad, no heat right? Probably less drag with less iron in the cores. 7 ohm? while they were hot after a run? I think.

250w input 700watt output? COP 2.8

[Turion]

Re GENERATOR

Here is the data they provided me this morning.
Both coils wrapped with three strands of 1,000 feet of # 23
Old coils 5.4 ohms resistance
New Coils 7.1 ohms resistance??? This doesn't sound right to me, but that's what they said Since old coils and new coils were both wrapped with the same size of wire and length of wire, shouldn't the resistance be the same, even though the core material is different?

The same two coils or "coil pair" were tested on both machines. These are the NEW coils
Open voltage on old machine 302V
138V under load across a 100 W light bulb

New coil open voltage on new machine 170V
74V under load across 100 W light bulb

[Turion]

Re Tesla Switch:

I am building the Simple Switch version, a simple MECHANICAL version, which isn't a true "Tesla Switch", but is where I started and is a simple proof of concept. It will eventually run down, but not for a long time. And once it is built, I can show some modifications that I believe will help it run even longer. I do not promise it will NEVER run down, because everything dies eventually. Not sure how this BIGGER rotor will work with the small coils I am using. But I wanted the bigger rotor because it makes the modifications easier to talk about and explain. The first time I built this, I used the smaller, lighter rotor, with these coils, and GOOD batteries. Not sure if my batteries will hold up either, but can't afford 4 new ones, and the one I have on order to give me a set of four won't be here for a few days (Amazon says the 22nd) so if it doesn't hold up, I will have to wind a larger coil and wait for new batteries to figure out if it is the batteries or the coil. Replacing batteries is far easier than winding a new coil, and I will try that first since I am lazy. Besides, I wanted to use the smaller batteries to make the setup more portable to take with me to AZ when I go to visit family in the next couple months. But I have to start somewhere, and it's easier to start with things I already have on hand. I will know within a couple days of firing it up if the batteries are holding.

I am posting the schematic here that I posted on the other thread, as well as a video clip of how I use simple auto points to replace the reed switches, since they tend to wear out over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm2jWTZmNQ

SImple Tesla Switch motor.png

Basically, the modifications we are going to make to this setup is the addition of a generator coil to produce output power, and the use of magnets to increase the generator power, power of the motor coils, and reduce the amp draw of the system. Just like I show in the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90t071rVfmE

The final modification will be matching the right capacitor to the generator coil to establish a "Lenz neutral" situation at the RPM we can get the machine to run at. One of the BIG advantages to this Tesla Switch type setup is that the batteries hold voltage for a really long time with little to no variation, which is important, because the cap/coil relationship is only effective within a small window, and generally running off a battery runs the battery down too fast to take advantage of it.

I am also building a full blown Tesla Switch just for fun that I will post some videos of when I am done. It has 12 batteries in it, so most won't replicate it without substantial reason to go to all the expense. Probably $600 or more. And who wants to spend $600 to run a 30 watt load? So people should start with the simple one, add modifications, and work their way up. There is an intermediate step I can show also. SEVERAL versions of that I built. A multiple transistor four battery version that is switched by an Arduino.

For the one I am working on now:
12 of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3 of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C7ZM8SS...roduct_details
2 of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3 10 watt bulbs
3 bulb receptacles.
Wire

[bistander]

Re: TESLA SWITCH

Hi Turion,
for posts here concerning the Tesla Switch, please use a subject as I did. I encourage you to post here rather than the MG thread. And I don't want to confuse comments and data with your generator. Hopefully we can see some data from your buddies soon.
Regards,
bi
edit:

I am unfamiliar with the Tesla Switch, so I'm going to attach the basic circuit as this place relates. Let me know if this is what you're doing.
https://studfile.net/preview/8198158/

Screenshot_20220920-032234-576.png