The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

Math. I hate math. I hate it so much I would pay someone to count to ten for me so I don't have to do it.

But someone better at math might have a better way to figure this out. I chose the simplest method I could think of.

Hey Dave

I checked your information (now that the internet came back on) and your math makes sense to me.
Like I said 2" is the average dia X 3.14 = 6.28" per turn

Next we have 1000ft(1000' x 12=12,000") of wire divided by 6.28" = 1910 turns. So it looks like bye is right, not you you suck at math but I don't want to laugh to loud since you got the extra by using common sense reasoning instead of leaning on math

We all love you Dave
When you start, the spool is .875 not quite 1"

Then the center of the spool is 2"

Next the outside where the winding stops is 3"
leaving a small shoulder so the coil does not pop off.

So the average means we take 3" and the less than 1" add that=4 and divide by 2 = 2

pie x dia = 3.14 x 2" = 6.28" per turn

[BroMikey]

I ordered the gauss meter

.---- going to end up spending close to $1,000 to have a new rotor made and purchase new magnets.

Now there is someone putting the money where their mouth is. Nice comment Dave, thanks for sharing your inner most resolve

[Turion]

I am committed to doing whatever it takes to get a working version of this machine TESTED so I can be completely DONE with it and move on to other things!!!!! This is outdated, obsolete, ancient technology. Having to spend my time with it is driving me NUTS!

[BroMikey]

Remember the early model T engine? It is not in production at this time. However the obsolete version has been upgraded by a younger generation 100+ years later. The old engine seems like a joke

Keeping your word is a powerful character attribute. Prototypes and practical versions vary widely in construction. Keeping this whole concept alive is paramount.

A refined version could be a motor and generator for a car or truck the size of a bread box capable of 120 mph that never needs charging

[Turion]

My gauss meter came in. Very nice! Now when the old clunker shows up tomorrow I can compare the the strength of the magnets in it and in the new machine. If they are the same, then chances are I will need a new rotor because this one has TOO MANY magnets. But if they are different....then I will need a new rotor because the magnets on this one are too weak. Either way, it is looking like a new rotor is the solution, unless bi comes up with something that I can correct. I don't know what it would be.We shall see.

[bistander]

My gauss meter came in. Very nice! Now when the old clunker shows up tomorrow I can compare the the strength of the magnets in it and in the new machine. If they are the same, then chances are I will need a new rotor because this one has TOO MANY magnets. But if they are different....then I will need a new rotor because the magnets on this one are too weak. Either way, it is looking like a new rotor is the solution, unless bi comes up with something that I can correct. I don't know what it would be.We shall see.

Hi Turion,
new gaussmeter, cool. Post a photo. I've not used those things except for a phone app. I need some further tests. I'd like to see same NL (no load or open circuit) voltage curve on 12 pole rotor. And then loaded generated voltage curves on both.

Another (somewhat) quick test.
To see how it affects flux leakage (flux lines loops which don't link coil through core), try to complete magnetic circuit. This would require iron or steel straps running from core to core on ends opposite from rotor. Ideally they (straps) would go to both adjacent cores. You'd still just test one coil, both NL and loaded. The straps will likely stick the core ends and not require fasteners, or you can just place them by hand and hold them while you watch voltmeter and ammeter (for load). Strap cross sectional area should be at least half of the cross sectional area of the core, but any size should make some difference. Please note size. If it makes a positive difference, might want to repeat tests using both sides of rotor. If this increases flux, generated voltage will increase, possibly a lot, so start the test at rather a low RPM.

Undergoing eye procedure so reading is difficult. Later.
bi

ps
Straps will heat up due to changing flux.

[BroMikey]

My gauss meter came in.


------------ the magnets on this one are too weak.


Either way, it is looking like a new rotor is the solution,

Sounds good. Are you going to disassemble your rig so you can measure flux off the magnets? O can it be done now? How is what makes the most since to me. Less iron and more nickel content is less heat, better response time but needs to be a little larger to be even with the old solid iron cores plus the ever diminishing magnet strengths 150lb-100lbs. You have reached a critical point where the reduction in power production is evident. You have your answer.

BTW WEDNESDAY I check into the hospital for bypass, will be home after that in 1 week, coasting for real. Doc says yesterday if we don\t move quick 'You are a dead man" He says I'll be up walking around in 1-1/2 days and in 7 days I can climb stairs.

[Turion]

ABFBEA04-D111-41FD-88D0-D0197068447D.jpeg 77CF689F-66AD-48AF-AD22-97AB0CFFD18E.jpeg 7AFAFBB2-424F-4AFD-BC75-3E5A1777A953.jpeg 40DCCB0C-94DE-48A0-AB76-3900ECBB185C.jpeg 4C4F6CBA-236B-499F-B4D0-216D7F175F5D.jpeg Here’s a picture of the gauss meter. As for steel straps…not sure I have anything that will work lying around. I see another trip to town in my future. Nope! Found something. It’s galvanized. Just realized that, so looking for something that is just steel.

The gauss meter confirmed that the magnets in the old machine are FAR, FAR stronger than the ones in the new machine and that is confirmed by voltage output tests we did with the old machine. I haven’t uploaded all those videos to YouTube yet, but I will.

[bistander]

... Here’s a picture of the gauss meter. As for steel straps…not sure I have anything that will work lying around. I see another trip to town in my future. Nope! Found something. It’s galvanized. Just realized that, so looking for something that is just steel.

The gauss meter confirmed that the magnets in the old machine are FAR, FAR stronger than the ones in the new machine and that is confirmed by voltage output tests we did with the old machine. I haven’t uploaded all those videos to YouTube yet, but I will.

Galvanized might work, if a magnet sticks to it similarly as to steel. Nice instruments. Do you have the size and specs of the 2 different magnets? And when you measure the field, the magnets are on the rotor, right? Just wondering if proximity of neighboring magnets can affect your readings.
Thanks.
bi

[Turion]

Both machines are built exactly the same way. Same dimensions everywhere. The old machine has 3/4 by 3/4 x 3/4 square magnets in repulsion while the new machine has round magnets 3/4 x 3/4. So there is THAT difference plus how the two machines have the magnets mounted in the rotor. I’m going to look up the pulling power of each, but they are about five inches away from the coil core, so don’t see them having such a dramatic effect. Possible I guess. The new machine would have a South magnet on each side of the North I am measuring that is much closer than the two south magnets on the OLD machine, because new rotor has twice as many magnets, so spacing us different.

[bistander]

Both machines are built exactly the same way. Same dimensions everywhere. The old machine has 3/4 by 3/4 x 3/4 square magnets in repulsion while the new machine has round magnets 3/4 x 3/4. So there is THAT difference plus how the two machines have the magnets mounted in the rotor. I’m going to look up the pulling power of each, but they are about five inches away from the coil core, so don’t see them having such a dramatic effect. Possible I guess. The new machine would have a South magnet on each side of the North I am measuring that is much closer than the two south magnets on the OLD machine, because new rotor has twice as many magnets, so spacing us different.

The new machine would have a South magnet on each side of the North I am measuring that is much closer than the two south magnets on the OLD machine, because new rotor has twice as many magnets, so spacing us different.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. New has 4 poles/coil, old has 2 poles/coil. I think it is obvious that the difference in flux through the core is primarily due to different magnetic circuits, not magnet material. What was that 1.3 vs 1.4T? Not much.

Rethinking that iron strap test. I now doubt that will work out as I had thought. At TDC, all the cores (6) see a magnet of same polarity, so there is no flux return path via adjacent core. Return flux must use air and adjacent magnets.
bi

[Turion]

I think it is obvious that the difference in flux through the core is primarily due to different magnetic circuits, not magnet material. What was that 1.3 vs 1.4T? Not much.

bi

I'm not sure what these numbers are referring to???? I know T is for Teslas, but what did I measure besides the magnet strength? The old rotor was over DOUBLE the new rotor. I believe that is due to:

On the old machine there are two 3/4 x 3/4 magnets stuck nearly back to back. A thin piece of the rotor about 1/32” thick separates them. On the new machine, there are also two 3/4 x 3/4 stuck nearly back to back but this time there is a 5/8 x 1/4” thick magnet between them. The gauss reading on the new machine is not even 50% of what it is on the old one. In both cases I stuck the same iron bolt on the rotor magnet and measured at the end of the bolt.

[BroMikey]

I'm not sure what these numbers are referring to???? I know T is for Teslas, but what did I measure besides the magnet strength? The old rotor was over DOUBLE the new rotor. I believe that is due to:

On the old machine there are two 3/4 x 3/4 magnets stuck nearly back to back. A thin piece of the rotor about 1/32” thick separates them. On the new machine, there are also two 3/4 x 3/4 stuck nearly back to back but this time there is a 5/8 x 1/4” thick magnet between them. The gauss reading on the new machine is not even 50% of what it is on the old one. In both cases I stuck the same iron bolt on the rotor magnet and measured at the end of the bolt.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25541630987...75.c101224.m-1

I never would have guessed in a million years that a 1/4" thick magnet added into the mix would have destroyed half of the flux. The smaller thin magnet caused a bottleneck for flux
You have your answer dude, that's awesome. I gotta git-me one of those meters

[bistander]

I'm not sure what these numbers are referring to???? I know T is for Teslas, but what did I measure besides the magnet strength? The old rotor was over DOUBLE the new rotor. I believe that is due to:

On the old machine there are two 3/4 x 3/4 magnets stuck nearly back to back. A thin piece of the rotor about 1/32” thick separates them. On the new machine, there are also two 3/4 x 3/4 stuck nearly back to back but this time there is a 5/8 x 1/4” thick magnet between them. The gauss reading on the new machine is not even 50% of what it is on the old one. In both cases I stuck the same iron bolt on the rotor magnet and measured at the end of the bolt.

Sorry. I was referring to manufacturer's specification of flux density for N grades Neo magnets. I know you've posted the grades you used in these two rotors, but I don't recall exactly which they are. But they would be within 7-8% of each other. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Therefore the large difference which you measure isn't due to the magnet grade. Simply (only) replacing magnets in the 24 pole rotor would not fix the problem, imo.
bi

[BroMikey]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gaussmete...dSellerId=5621

Think about the flux being interrupted by reducing the path size between to larger magnets. The flux path has narrowed