The bistander thread

[Matthew Jones]

Look at both those circuits. In both cases you have to pull Double the amount of power to run the load and recover half of what's left. Now do the math. Then do the math with efficiency of the components and the battery which cannot be charged while discharging. The simple answer is you have done nothing. Ya you could added buck converter like wanttomake talks about and is strangely not included in the drawings, but the buck will collapse (look it up, Buck Collapse). Non of this is anything.

[Turion]

Glad I have you to find all my mistakes. If you are running just boost modules it will run as shown. And that's all I would encourage any of the folks here to spend money on. When running an ISOLATED DC to DC converter the ground DOES have to be attached, as you point out, but not to the load. It is connected to the ground on the battery.

It is like the OUTPUT of the DC to DC converter replaces the two batteries in series in the 3 battery setup. It is a separate energy source. So the ground of it goes to the ground of the 3rd battery. (In this case, the ground of the only battery we have to establish the dipole) and the load runs between the high potential positive (of the DC to DC converter output) and the low potential positive of the 12V battery. Everything possible runs on potential difference so SOME of the energy can be recovered.

[bistander]

Just saving this post over here.

Yeah,
You should listen to someone who knows what they are doing and that's obviously not ME. I guess I wasn't thinking when I drew that schematic. Here is what I am ACTUALLY running. Instead of a second boost I am running a DC to DC converter, which acts much the same, but is more efficient. And I have a cap across the input. It probably isn't necessary, but that DC to DC is like $130 rather than $30, so I take no chances. I am changing the picture on the previous post to the correct one. The main ISSUE is which side of the diode the LOAD is on. It changes the relationship between potential differences. No wonder bistander asked if I had ever run that circuit before.

image_24897.jpg

edit:
If the DC to DC converter is isolated, does not the negative output need to be connected to the load?

[bistander]

Thanks.....
bi
automotive-replacement-batteries-accessories_p1925_i7.jpg

[Turion]

Here are the batteries and the battery charger that I purchased from Amazon. I just purchased three more batteries today, which will give me 9 total. Battery Charger.png Current BAtteries.png

[bistander]

Why bother to run the tests? You don't believe this works anyway.

My "claim" is that running loads this way you will see extended run times from your batteries. Period. That's all I ever claimed with the 3 Battery System, and it has not changed. Will it run continuously by using boost modules correctly as the load? It wouldn't with Lead Acid batteries, but I have no idea what will happen with lithium.

I have all KINDS of data from my notebooks of specific experiments I have run, but none of it will do YOU any good. If you're looking for something "plug and play" you are SOL. The batteries you use, the boost module you use, and the load you use will impact your results, as well as the voltage outputs you set on the boost modules. It's called experimenting. Ask Wantomake how long it took him to get the results he is getting now. He is using lead acid batteries.

I say this based on MY experience with Lead acid batteries. I have NO IDEA if this holds true with lithium because until this week I have never used lithium batteries. You're asking me to give you "load ranges" for YOUR batteries that I have never seen let alone experimented with. Not only have I not experimented with the size batteries you are using, but I have not experimented with lithium batteries AT ALL until last week.

I gave a general place to start with boost module voltages on bro's thread, and that was for a 20 or 30 watt load.

I just saw that my one battery setup will NOT self run and support a 30 watt load because the BMS kicked off after two hours. I was actually standing there when it kicked off. I was just about to disconnect the load so I could measure the battery voltage unloaded. When it died, the meter wouldn't read any voltage, so I put the charger on for about 30 seconds and it read 12.2. Charging it now. I ran this same load for 90 minutes this morning and when I put the battery charger on the battery it said the battery was FULL. Just for fun, I am going to recharge the battery and hook up 30 watts of load directly to the battery and see how long it runs before the bms shuts it off.

The boost modules I am using are below. As you can see from this screen shot of my orders page, that DROK boost module is no longer available.

Thanks for the link. I should be able to get something comparable.

As to "Why bother...?", just to prove you wrong. I know what results will be. It is simple.

So you have "all KINDS of data from my notebooks", but no evidence of "extended run times from your batteries"? Just another false claim like with that generator.

You mentioned wantomake's set-up. I have seen no evidence of anything from his posts indicating anything out-of-the-ordinary. Perhaps you can point that out specifically.

I'm curious. Which Lithium battery are you using? And which charger? There are so many available at reasonable cost.
bi

[Turion]

Why bother to run the tests? You don't believe this works anyway.

My "claim" is that running loads this way you will see extended run times from your batteries. Period. That's all I ever claimed with the 3 Battery System, and it has not changed. Will it run continuously by using boost modules correctly as the load? It wouldn't with Lead Acid batteries, but I have no idea what will happen with lithium.

I have all KINDS of data from my notebooks of specific experiments I have run, but none of it will do YOU any good. If you're looking for something "plug and play" you are SOL. The batteries you use, the boost module you use, and the load you use will impact your results, as well as the voltage outputs you set on the boost modules. It's called experimenting. Ask Wantomake how long it took him to get the results he is getting now. He is using lead acid batteries.

I say this based on MY experience with Lead acid batteries. I have NO IDEA if this holds true with lithium because until this week I have never used lithium batteries. You're asking me to give you "load ranges" for YOUR batteries that I have never seen let alone experimented with. Not only have I not experimented with the size batteries you are using, but I have not experimented with lithium batteries AT ALL until last week.

I gave a general place to start with boost module voltages on bro's thread, and that was for a 20 or 30 watt load.

I just saw that my one battery setup will NOT self run and support a 30 watt load because the BMS kicked off after two hours. I was actually standing there when it kicked off. I was just about to disconnect the load so I could measure the battery voltage unloaded. When it died, the meter wouldn't read any voltage, so I put the charger on for about 30 seconds and it read 12.2. Charging it now. I ran this same load for 90 minutes this morning and when I put the battery charger on the battery it said the battery was FULL. Just for fun, I am going to recharge the battery and hook up 30 watts of load directly to the battery and see how long it runs before the bms shuts it off.

The boost modules I am using are below. As you can see from this screen shot of my orders page, that DROK boost module is no longer available.

[bistander]

I have run that circuit HUNDREDS of times with lead acid batteries, but never with lithium. All I have ever gotten from that circuit with lead acid batteries is extended run times. Eventually the batteries always ran down. Wantomake just posted a video using the four battery switch, which simply adds another battery in parallel to the one at the bottom of the schematic you are talking about, and he used an inverter as his load. I'm sure he will be posting all about his results.

I am concentrating on building a single battery looped system because it is pretty hard to argue with a setup that runs a load and keeps the source battery charged. I tried for a long time with lead acid and the batteries just couldn't handle it. The lithium seem to handle it much better, and I want to try the hybrid batteries I was talking about the other day. But first I will exhaust the possibilities with lithium. As some point there should be a load that is compatible with the system that allows everything to work.

So you are telling me you do not have any data, results quantified, or any numbers at all except for "hundreds of times"?

What do you claim, specifically, is the extraordinary result from running this experiment? If I use Lithium 12V nominal batteries, approximately 2Ah rated, what load range would be required to get your results? I'm not sure I have a boost converter, so please give the model (from Amazon please) which you'd not object to after I run the test. Please specify the procedure to run the test.

Thanks.
bi

[Turion]

I have run that circuit HUNDREDS of times with lead acid batteries, but never with lithium. All I have ever gotten from that circuit with lead acid batteries is extended run times. Eventually the batteries always ran down. Wantomake just posted a video using the four battery switch, which simply adds another battery in parallel to the one at the bottom of the schematic you are talking about, and he used an inverter as his load. I'm sure he will be posting all about his results.

I am concentrating on building a single battery looped system because it is pretty hard to argue with a setup that runs a load and keeps the source battery charged. I tried for a long time with lead acid and the batteries just couldn't handle it. The lithium seem to handle it much better, and I want to try the hybrid batteries I was talking about the other day. But first I will exhaust the possibilities with lithium. As some point there should be a load that is compatible with the system that allows everything to work.

[bistander]

...
If you have 3 batteries, put two in series and connect the boost module positive in to the positive output of the two batteries in series. Connect the negative in of the boost module to the positive of the third battery. Connect the negative of the third battery to the negative of the two batteries in series. Take the output of the boost module set to 26 volts and run it through a load to the positive of the third battery. You will have to rotate your batteries to keep up the potential difference and keep the batteries charged. Again, do not forget the diode!. Set boost module for 26 volts.

I have included a schematic for both circuits.
...

Hi Turion,

Have you ever run the second circuit, 3 battery experiment? Please post your findings.
Thanks.
bi

[Turion]

They are convinced the lack of production from the new coils that I tested on my coil testing setup is due to something mechanical or magnetic with the new generator, so they are spending time and money on the OLD generator to see why they got such good results with it. They are having a new shaft made and new bearings and motor mounts. I lot of money to spend when the opposition magnets on it will NEVER accurately adjust and hold their adjustment. But hey, it's not my money now, so they can do what they want.

The loud noise the new machine made they believe is because of the missing magnets, where I removed some from the rotor, but I told them it was making that noise when ALL the magnets were in the rotor. But it DIDN'T make this noise with the LAST rotor. Anyway, they are working with the machinist. They are spending time and money on TWO machines now. Fine by me.

I can work on my other project. You know, the multiple battery schemes and splitting positives that you say is worthless. Had it running 50 watts of load and batteries all holding steady. Going for 100 watts now. I know that isn't much, but it's just proof of concept. Can't wait to see what it will do on the lithium batteries.

[BroMikey]

Hey Turion,

Have your buddies in the city made any progress on the generator?
bi

I hate to butt in on that obsolete generator but it could take years to find the right core material. No one has paid any attention to my comments for the past 5 years concerning core material. No time was given for the search. This should take some time for those guys. Ferrites are out, iron dust, beebee's (joke) or random stacks of permalloy will take months if someone with unlimited resources starts today.

The next generation might take up this task for this design, but it is already perfected by others. You were wrong.

[bistander]

Hey Turion,

Have your buddies in the city made any progress on the generator?
bi

[bistander]

I find it humorous that bistander has dumped all over the 3 Battery System for YEARS, but now that you are posting data, he has nothing to say. Wonder why?
oh, wait, he said he doesn’t need to build it because he knows everything about it. LOL

Hi Turion,
I'll tell you why. Your multiple battery schemes and splitting positives are all worthless waste of energy. You don't know what you're talking about, don't listen to reason or learn basic electrical, energy and physics fundamentals. You say the boost converter is overunity. You're a lost cause.
So I choose not to engage in a pizzing match with you over this. I'll just continue to wait for you to finally fullfil a promise to test your generator. Have your city friends made any progress?
bi

[bistander]

... Maybe now bistander will build one and get it working. Wouldn't THAT be fun?
...

What????
Trying to drag me into that stupid BS. No thanks. I've been watching. I try had not to interact with the OP of that thread. None of you three discussing that circuit have a clue. I certainly don't need to build it to know everything about it. So, carry on and have fun.
bi

BTW, what in the world would lead you to say a boost converter is OU? On second thought, nevermind.