The bistander thread

[Turion]

Nice try. Once again you avoid all the questions I ask, so I will return the favor.

Picked up the generator today. Everything looks REALLY good, but I won't know for sure until I get it back together. Will be working on THAT project tomorrow and may post some video. If they actually returned all the parts I sent, I should be fine. On the way home I began to worry that I didn't see the power supply to run the RPM meter or the one to run the motor. That could be a problem. But I wasn't the only one loading boxes in the car, so maybe they are both in there somewhere.

[bistander]

Wow! If you believe I have repulsion and attraction confused because of the statement I made about what goes on in my machine, then you REALLY have no conception of how my machine works. Interesting. This proves to ME that you have no interest in learning anything, but are only here to detract. There is an attraction between the rotor magnets and the cores. It does NOT GO AWAY AT SPEED. IT SMOOTHS OUT, BUT THE ATTRACTION IS STILL THERE. Unless you can outrun magnetism. So what speed is required to do that? That's the question I asked, and because you are wrong, you ignored it. I use REPULSION to counteract that attraction, and the REPULSION creates a linear or rotary force that is stronger than the linear force of attraction. Simple.



LOL. YOu're the one who says if you go fast enough that there is no attraction between the rotor magnets and the core, not me. I say it ALWAYS exists. So it is YOU who believe you can outrun magnetic attraction by operating "at speed". But you're wrong of course.



So when I use YOUR debunker video and solid evidence to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about, you "don't feel like arguing." Even the DEBUNKER says Lenz free coils are possible and SHOWS one in the video. He just sees no value in them because he doesn't understand how to use them properly. But you can't admit that.

Mr Chicken rides again. Hide in the dark and attempt to discredit the work of others. If anyone around here is a fraud, it would be the guy looking back when you stare in a mirror. Again, ANY coil will achieve the Lenz neutral point at the correct operating frequency. Have you even bothered to TRY this? Obviously not, or you would shut your mouth and go hide in a closet. Or maybe you DO know the truth, but you don't want everyone to know. Why is that?

It will also work by putting (the right) capacitor across a coil to simply increase its capacitance. Some of the MY1016 razor scooter motors used to HAVE a capacitor across the motor coils. Ever wonder WHY that was there? For all I know, the new ones may STILL have a cap there, but I haven't taken one apart in several years. If you read Tesla's patent on the Tesla coil, he explains it. Which is what led me to my understanding of how these coils work.

I pick up my generator at 4:00 today, so I should be able to schedule lab testing for sometime next week if all goes well. Then what will you do? Probably just change your name and continue to do what you do. Coward.

You say "YOu're the one who says if you go fast enough that there is no attraction between the rotor magnets and the core"?
I never said that. Show the quote and link.

You say "Even the DEBUNKER says Lenz free coils are possible and SHOWS one in the video."
Again, show the quote and link. I think you just made this up.

You say "Some of the MY1016 razor scooter motors used to HAVE a capacitor across the motor coils. Ever wonder WHY that was there?"
I'm pretty sure that I do know why capacitors are sometimes used in DC motors. Why do you think? To eliminate Lenz?

I've read the Tesla patent on bifilar coil. Maybe you have a different patent. So show the quote and patent number where it claims the coil eliminates torque in a generator. I wondered for years how you come to that conclusion.

You say "I use REPULSION to counteract that attraction, and the REPULSION creates a linear or rotary force that is stronger than the linear force of attraction. Simple."

The attraction of the magnet to the core causes cogging. Cogging is irrelevant at rated speed for power production. But your method may mitigate or neutralize the effects of cogging (which are seen mostly at low speed). The addition of these repulsion magnets actually cause a 'pseudo' opposition cogging which may introduce additional loss to the machine in magnet surface eddy currents. Let's see how that works out for you.
bi

[Turion]

bro Mikey,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nigD1c3aBUA

[Turion]

Got repulsion and attraction confused there don't you? bi

Wow! If you believe I have repulsion and attraction confused because of the statement I made about what goes on in my machine, then you REALLY have no conception of how my machine works. Interesting. This proves to ME that you have no interest in learning anything, but are only here to detract. There is an attraction between the rotor magnets and the cores. It does NOT GO AWAY AT SPEED. IT SMOOTHS OUT, BUT THE ATTRACTION IS STILL THERE. Unless you can outrun magnetism. So what speed is required to do that? That's the question I asked, and because you are wrong, you ignored it. I use REPULSION to counteract that attraction, and the REPULSION creates a linear or rotary force that is stronger than the linear force of attraction. Simple.

Who knows why you want to out run a magnet. Probably chasing Lenz. You're nonsensical.
bi

LOL. YOu're the one who says if you go fast enough that there is no attraction between the rotor magnets and the core, not me. I say it ALWAYS exists. So it is YOU who believe you can outrun magnetic attraction by operating "at speed". But you're wrong of course.

Sorry that I don't feel like arguing with you about your coil neutral point. I see it as pointless. Just prove that your crackpot theories have any value with that big black contraption and face reality and truth. Or maybe you'll just disappear like last July.
bi

So when I use YOUR debunker video and solid evidence to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about, you "don't feel like arguing." Even the DEBUNKER says Lenz free coils are possible and SHOWS one in the video. He just sees no value in them because he doesn't understand how to use them properly. But you can't admit that.

Mr Chicken rides again. Hide in the dark and attempt to discredit the work of others. If anyone around here is a fraud, it would be the guy looking back when you stare in a mirror. Again, ANY coil will achieve the Lenz neutral point at the correct operating frequency. Have you even bothered to TRY this? Obviously not, or you would shut your mouth and go hide in a closet. Or maybe you DO know the truth, but you don't want everyone to know. Why is that?

It will also work by putting (the right) capacitor across a coil to simply increase its capacitance. Some of the MY1016 razor scooter motors used to HAVE a capacitor across the motor coils. Ever wonder WHY that was there? For all I know, the new ones may STILL have a cap there, but I haven't taken one apart in several years. If you read Tesla's patent on the Tesla coil, he explains it. Which is what led me to my understanding of how these coils work.

I pick up my generator at 4:00 today, so I should be able to schedule lab testing for sometime next week if all goes well. Then what will you do? Probably just change your name and continue to do what you do. Coward.

[BroMikey]

Here is the gentlemen again with proof

[BroMikey]

Lenz free theory

[BroMikey]

Here is another proof for BYE that lenz law can not be beaten. This is BYE level video's

[bistander]

Which is all YOU'LL ever get. The folks that matter will get what they need.

By the way, when you force two magnets together, and neither can go backward, but one can move to the left or right (and take the rotor with it) what do YOU think it does? Does it just sit there, or does it move left or right. Your move Mr. Know it All. When it moves left or right, that is not an axial movement now is it? Therefore, it is not an axial force now is it? If you don't believe me, set one magnet on a table and push another one straight down toward it. If the bottom one doesn't flip over and attract, what happens? What does THAT do to your "theory". That's the problem with you. You don't do the experiments, you just open your mouth and let the drivel run out. By compressing two magnets together we change an axial force into a linear, or in this case ROTARY force. Got a clue yet? I didn't think so. Is your little box getting smaller and smaller? Probably because your head is too big.

As for my entire last post, which you have NO answer for, so simply declare BS and ignore...... Your tactics don't work with me. I have seen them for years. Pitiful. Disinformation doesn't work. I know the truth. So will anyone who reads what I wrote. You declaring it BS does not make it so. Neither does me declaring it to be truth. The truth speaks for itself.

Still waiting for the evidence that magnetic attraction can be outrun at speed. Waiting. Waiting.Waiting.

Got repulsion and attraction confused there don't you? Who knows why you want to out run a magnet. Probably chasing Lenz. You're nonsensical.

Sorry that I don't feel like arguing with you about your coil neutral point. I see it as pointless. Just prove that your crackpot theories have any value with that big black contraption and face reality and truth. Or maybe you'll just disappear like last July.
bi

[Turion]

Which is all YOU'LL ever get. The folks that matter will get what they need.

By the way, when you force two magnets together, and neither can go backward, but one can move to the left or right (and take the rotor with it) what do YOU think it does? Does it just sit there, or does it move left or right. Your move Mr. Know it All. When it moves left or right, that is not an axial movement now is it? Therefore, it is not an axial force now is it? If you don't believe me, set one magnet on a table and push another one straight down toward it. If the bottom one doesn't flip over and attract, what happens? What does THAT do to your "theory". That's the problem with you. You don't do the experiments, you just open your mouth and let the drivel run out. By compressing two magnets together we change an axial force into a linear, or in this case ROTARY force. Got a clue yet? I didn't think so. Is your little box getting smaller and smaller? Probably because your head is too big.

As for my entire last post, which you have NO answer for, so simply declare BS and ignore...... Your tactics don't work with me. I have seen them for years. Pitiful. Disinformation doesn't work. I know the truth. So will anyone who reads what I wrote. You declaring it BS does not make it so. Neither does me declaring it to be truth. The truth speaks for itself.

Still waiting for the evidence that magnetic attraction can be outrun at speed. Waiting. Waiting.Waiting.

[bistander]

This is the easy one. The debunker is running the speed up under load coil (with a core) at a frequency where it causes the prime mover to accelerate, and shows that its output is no greater than that of his "standard coil" and that the open circuit operation of the speed up under load coil AT THAT FREQUENCY cause a greater load on the prime mover than the standard coil. I agree. I have seen exactly the same thing COUNTLESS TIMES. I have stated COUNTLESS TIMES that this is NOT the frequency at which to operate a "speed up under load coil." It has the LEAST effect on the amp draw or least "load" on the prime mover when run at the NEUTRAL speed. Where it neither speeds up nor slows down the prime mover. This is also when it outputs its MOST power as a generator coil. If you compare the two at THAT frequency your data will be much different.

But throw away the speed up under load coil and just run the single strand test coil at the proper frequency and it achieves the same NEUTRAL state where attaching the load has NO EFFECT on the prime mover. My original coils were three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long, just wound in parallel and connected to the load in parallel. I had six 2" magnets on the rotor. I achieved the neutral state with a 10 1/2" rotor at 2800 RPM. No "Tesla style" coil needed. I started experimenting with the Tesla style coils to see if the frequency could be lowered and it WAS. That is the only advantage of the Tesla Style coil, and it isn't even needed if you understand what is going on. Which you obviously don't. Because you keep ignoring these simple FACTS.

Yep Turion, that's your story. It's just a load of BS. We've been waiting for what? Like 5 or 6 years? For a legitimate demonstration or proof. All we get are delays and excuses.
bi

[bistander]

bi states that "at speed" the the coil core has no effect on the rotor (cogging). Yes, the cogging effect is smoothed out "at speed", but the ATTRACTION still exists. If the rotor magnet can have an effect on the coil core material, "at speed," inducing flux in it, then the coil core will ALSO have an effect on the rotating magnet. It is simple physics that bistander wants to sweep under the rug. You can't "eliminate" one "at speed" and still have the other. Unless you are magic. Maybe bi is actually Harry Potter. You can't have the rotor magnet attracted to the core and inducing flux in it without the core being attracted to the rotor magnet. It's as SIMPLE as that. And pulling away from THAT attraction, whether there is visible cogging or not, requires amps for the prime mover. More coils causes an exponential need for additional amps, because each additional coil compounds the effects of all previous coils. I have graphed this many times in the past. His BS response to this is that the attraction of the core to the magnet as it approaches is the same as its attraction as it moves away. Agreed. But the moment of perfect alignment (Which is the instant of GREATEST ATTRACTION) is NOT cancelled out by an equal REPULSION IN ANY DIRECTION without the magnetic interaction my setup provides.

Generator will be at my friend's house in the morning and I will drive up to get it.

What don't you understand about a force vector? You do not believe Newton's laws and somehow think an axial force will produce a torque on the shaft. I've explained your faulty logic. So let's just see how it plays out with the output/input tests on your device. Run it with your "neutralization" magnets and keep everything the exactly the same except without those magnets. Show us who's right.

And since it is really core loss, the power needed to turn the rotor magnets past the cores is linear with regards to core mass, not exponential as you keep saying.

My test, which you call 7th grade, is valid for one core, two or as many as you want. The clumlative effect is additive (linear).

bi

[Turion]

bi states that "at speed" the the coil core has no effect on the rotor (cogging). Yes, the cogging effect is smoothed out "at speed", but the ATTRACTION still exists. If the rotor magnet can have an effect on the coil core material, "at speed," inducing flux in it, then the coil core will ALSO have an effect on the rotating magnet. It is simple physics that bistander wants to sweep under the rug. You can't "eliminate" one "at speed" and still have the other. Unless you are magic. Maybe bi is actually Harry Potter. You can't have the rotor magnet attracted to the core and inducing flux in it without the core being attracted to the rotor magnet. It's as SIMPLE as that. And pulling away from THAT attraction, whether there is visible cogging or not, requires amps for the prime mover. More coils causes an exponential need for additional amps, because each additional coil compounds the effects of all previous coils. I have graphed this many times in the past. His BS response to this is that the attraction of the core to the magnet as it approaches is the same as its attraction as it moves away. Agreed. But the moment of perfect alignment (Which is the instant of GREATEST ATTRACTION) is NOT cancelled out by an equal REPULSION IN ANY DIRECTION without the magnetic interaction my setup provides.

Generator will be at my friend's house in the morning and I will drive up to get it.

[BroMikey]

I achieved the neutral state with a 10 1/2" rotor at 2800 RPM. No "Tesla style" coil needed. I started experimenting with the Tesla style coils to see if the frequency could be lowered and it WAS. That is the only advantage of the Tesla Style coil, and it isn't even needed if you understand what is going on. Which you obviously don't. Because you keep ignoring these simple FACTS.

Keep us all on track, after awhile it sinks in

[Turion]

All you had to do was to run your machine at speed with anticogging scheme adjusted to your desired position, and observe motor current while backing out the anticogging magnet. You would have seen that current does not increase, as you claim, demonstrating cogging is irrelevant at speed. But you refused to run that simple "7th grade experiment.."

Sure, with one or two coils there is basically no difference. Put 12 coils on the machine with 24 neo magnets on the rotor and try the same experiment. The effect of each coil is EXPONENTIAL. With no load on the coils, JUST TO TURN THE ROTOR costs me 36 amps AT SPEED of draw by the prime mover. With magnetic neutralization I have gotten it down to 12 amps AT SPEED with the old machine and even lower with the new one. I still see no evidence from your physics books that magnetic attraction can be outrun at speed. Only smoooooothed out, as I have stated. How fast do you have to go to outrun a magnet?

[/QUOTE]

[Turion]

image_23165.png
The load caused a 12 watt increase for the monofilar coil. Test with same load on the bifilar coil caused a 157 watt decrease in power into the motor. The massive open circuit loss of the bifilar coil obscures power input associated with the load test. I've said this was the case many times. It still requires power input (280 watts) to produce output power (10 watts), part of which is to overcome torque from interaction of the coil current with the field flux. Just because the associated power is hidden in the peculiar behavior of the bifilar coil does not make Lorentz, Lenz and me wrong.
bi

This is the easy one. The debunker is running the speed up under load coil (with a core) at a frequency where it causes the prime mover to accelerate, and shows that its output is no greater than that of his "standard coil" and that the open circuit operation of the speed up under load coil AT THAT FREQUENCY cause a greater load on the prime mover than the standard coil. I agree. I have seen exactly the same thing COUNTLESS TIMES. I have stated COUNTLESS TIMES that this is NOT the frequency at which to operate a "speed up under load coil." It has the LEAST effect on the amp draw or least "load" on the prime mover when run at the NEUTRAL speed. Where it neither speeds up nor slows down the prime mover. This is also when it outputs its MOST power as a generator coil. If you compare the two at THAT frequency your data will be much different.

But throw away the speed up under load coil and just run the single strand test coil at the proper frequency and it achieves the same NEUTRAL state where attaching the load has NO EFFECT on the prime mover. My original coils were three strands of #23 each 1,000 feet long, just wound in parallel and connected to the load in parallel. I had six 2" magnets on the rotor. I achieved the neutral state with a 10 1/2" rotor at 2800 RPM. No "Tesla style" coil needed. I started experimenting with the Tesla style coils to see if the frequency could be lowered and it WAS. That is the only advantage of the Tesla Style coil, and it isn't even needed if you understand what is going on. Which you obviously don't. Because you keep ignoring these simple FACTS.